dslreports logo
site
 
    All Forums Hot Topics Gallery
spc

spacer




how-to block ads


Search Topic:
uniqs
1230
share rss forum feed


Jodokast96
Stupid people really piss me off.
Premium
join:2005-11-23
Erial, NJ
kudos:2
Reviews:
·Verizon Online DSL

[Electrical] Code question

So it's against code to run a power cable in a wall, ie. wall mounted tv.

Question #1 - Why?
Question #2 - Is it ok to run it through the wall to an outlet on the other side?
--
"To me EVFs are like putting complex computer circuitry in a ballpoint pen to regulate ink flow." - GibbyTheMole



Code Q

@mycingular.net

#1. The type of material used for the cord is not rated for concealed work.
#2. Flexible cords are not permitted to run through walls/floors/ceilings.

Aside from a visible cord or external raceway listed for the purpose, the only 'legal' method is a properly installed permanent outlet.



nunya
Premium,MVM
join:2000-12-23
O Fallon, MO
kudos:12
Reviews:
·voip.ms
·Charter
·surpasshosting
reply to Jodokast96

»www.homedepot.com/p/PowerBridge-···7588969#
--
If someone refers to herself / himself as a "guru", they probably aren't.



Jodokast96
Stupid people really piss me off.
Premium
join:2005-11-23
Erial, NJ
kudos:2
Reviews:
·Verizon Online DSL

$45 for $20 worth of supplies? Lol

Are those male outlets readily available? I already have everything else on hand.
--
"To me EVFs are like putting complex computer circuitry in a ballpoint pen to regulate ink flow." - GibbyTheMole


robbin
Premium,MVM
join:2000-09-21
Leander, TX
kudos:1

A male outlet is called an inlet.



Msradell
P.E.
Premium
join:2008-12-25
Louisville, KY
reply to Jodokast96

Another option is to install a large (2"+/-) in the wall open at both ends. You can then run your audio and video cables as well as a power cord through that conduit whenever you need to. This provides a more flexible solution than the fixed type system mentioned above because you can change the wearing as required.



Camelot One
Premium,MVM
join:2001-11-21
Greenwood, IN
kudos:1

said by Msradell:

Another option is to install a large (2"+/-) in the wall open at both ends.

I wondered about that. So a normal external use PC power cord can't be run inside the wall, but it can be run inside a conduit that runs inside the wall?


whizkid3
Premium,MVM
join:2002-02-21
Queens, NY
kudos:9
reply to Jodokast96

said by Jodokast96:

So it's against code to run a power cable in a wall, ie. wall mounted tv. Question #1 - Why?

Because its a fire hazard.

said by Jodokast96:

Question #2 - Is it ok to run it through the wall to an outlet on the other side?

No. Its not code compliant to run equipment/appliance power cords through walls, partitions, floors, ceilings, windows or doors.

Why don't you install a receptacle to serve the television?

said by Msradell:

Another option is to install a large (2"+/-) in the wall open at both ends. You can then run your audio and video cables as well as a power cord through that conduit whenever you need to.

Its not a lawful option. Sticking a conduit through a wall, still doesn't make it lawful to run an appliance cord through a wall.


battleop

join:2005-09-28
00000

"Because its a fire hazard."

Is there any evidence that doing this has ever cause a fire?

Not trying to argue if its right or wrong.
--
I do not, have not, and will not work for AT&T/Comcast/Verizon/Charter or similar sized company.



mackey

join:2007-08-20
kudos:6

1 edit
reply to Camelot One

said by Camelot One:

said by Msradell:

Another option is to install a large (2"+/-) in the wall open at both ends.

I wondered about that. So a normal external use PC power cord can't be run inside the wall, but it can be run inside a conduit that runs inside the wall?

IMO it depends on how it's run. No you cannot run a PC power cable "through a conduit," but if it's an opening in the wall where you can visually see (from both sides) both ends of the opening and the whole way through it's not a conduit you're running it through but rather an opening in the wall.

Would you say it's against code to run a cable through a doorway (no door, just a door sized opening aka "cased opening")? How about a 18" square opening cased like a window would be? How small does the opening need to be before it's illegal?

/M

JoelC707
Premium
join:2002-07-09
Lanett, AL
kudos:5
reply to battleop

said by battleop:

Is there any evidence that doing this has ever cause a fire?

Fire hazard issues aren't always about causing a fire but also what happens during a fire. The type of jacket on the wire may give off toxic fumes when exposed to high heat (fire).

Now, usually this issue is more in multi-tennant buildings where the fire may not be in your area but those fumes may easily travel to you; after all it could easily be argued that you're not going to remain in the structure during a fire to breathe in those fumes.

As for causing a fire, wires usually operate with the ability to dissipate heat in open air. The problem is most walls have insulation in them which will prohibit that dissipation. In that case, the wire (assuming not properly rated for that case) could overheat and melt/catch fire.


whizkid3
Premium,MVM
join:2002-02-21
Queens, NY
kudos:9
reply to mackey

said by mackey:

Would you say it's against code to run a cable through a doorway (no door, just a door sized opening aka "cased opening")? How about a 18" square opening cased like a window would be?

A properly constructed cased opening should be fine to run a cord through it.
Using a conduit, through a wall, is not a properly constructed cased opening. Protecting appliance cords or the use of conduit to construct a cased opening, are not likely listed applications for conduit, further making the whole concept not code-compliant.


battleop

join:2005-09-28
00000

1 recommendation

reply to JoelC707

"Fire hazard issues aren't always about causing a fire but also what happens during a fire. The type of jacket on the wire may give off toxic fumes when exposed to high heat (fire)."

In a fire (source or not) it's not going to matter because its going to give off fumes.

"As for causing a fire, wires usually operate with the ability to dissipate heat in open air. The problem is most walls have insulation in them which will prohibit that dissipation. In that case, the wire (assuming not properly rated for that case) could overheat and melt/catch fire."

Most of the time interior walls are not insulated. If the cable is undersized to the point it's going to melt in the wall there is a pretty good chance it's going to melt in that big ball of wire behind the entertainment center.
--
I do not, have not, and will not work for AT&T/Comcast/Verizon/Charter or similar sized company.



radek row

@206.47.249.x

why do people want to take the "SHORTCUT" And run an appliance power cable through a wall, when the amount of work and effort to do that you can easily string a piece of romex through the wall and attach a proper electrical outlet to plug in your tv and thus meeting canadian electrical code requirements, dont forget to turn off the breaker in your hydro panel before connecting the live wires, i know someone who didnt and got a shock of his life time, thankfully hes alive



chamberc
Premium
join:2008-08-05
Irving, TX
reply to Jodokast96

said by Jodokast96:

So it's against code to run a power cable in a wall, ie. wall mounted tv.

Question #1 - Why?
Question #2 - Is it ok to run it through the wall to an outlet on the other side?

Ignore the code, and run it with common sense. Ensure you're not making contact with any nails, etc, and it will be just fine.


battleop

join:2005-09-28
00000
reply to radek row

"why do people want to take the "SHORTCUT" And run an appliance power cable through a wal"

Probably because many people are scared of working in a panel because so many people make such a huge deal about consulting a professional. That makes it sound scary dangerous compared to running a cord through a hole in the wall will probably never come close to getting warm enough to catch fire.
--
I do not, have not, and will not work for AT&T/Comcast/Verizon/Charter or similar sized company.



02778712

join:2013-07-08
MA
reply to radek row

said by radek row :

why do people want to take the "SHORTCUT" And run an appliance power cable through a wall, when the amount of work and effort to do that you can easily string a piece of romex through the wall and attach a proper electrical outlet to plug in your tv and thus meeting canadian electrical code requirements, dont forget to turn off the breaker in your hydro panel before connecting the live wires, i know someone who didnt and got a shock of his life time, thankfully hes alive

You can't easily do that though. In Massachusetts here that requires a permit. In some cities that means a licensed professional. Now your hitting the minimums so the job is going to be ~$150 plus $10-15 for a permit. Not to mention you might need to take time off work to deal with stuff. Most electricians charge like $50 to pull the permit on jobs under like $500-1,000 so you have to take time off work or pay extra to get the permit. That 'easy' job is now going to cost you like $200-225 bucks. Just cutting a hole and popping a cord through costs zero. The alternative is do the work without a permit. I wouldn't trust most people's DIY electrical work myself. That might cause a larger problem then a cord through the wall. You do the math there.


Kordz

@70.65.252.x

In my old house for my wall mount I had all av And power cord run through a hole behind the tv. Zip tied down along the stud and then back out a hole behind the components. The other side of the wall was unfinished I dint know if that "technically" makes a difference or not. But my tv power cord went through not one put two holes in dry wall. Luckily I lived to tell this story.



stevek1949
We're not in Kansas anymore

join:2002-11-13
Virginia Beach, VA
reply to Jodokast96

I have used a couple of these kits before. No flex cable in the wall. UPS on the power side, power connector and cable included. It's a little of work, but it hided the cables well.

»www.monoprice.com/Product/?c_id=···rgeimage



Msradell
P.E.
Premium
join:2008-12-25
Louisville, KY
reply to whizkid3

said by whizkid3:

said by Msradell:

Another option is to install a large (2"+/-) in the wall open at both ends. You can then run your audio and video cables as well as a power cord through that conduit whenever you need to.

Its not a lawful option. Sticking a conduit through a wall, still doesn't make it lawful to run an appliance cord through a wall.

I actually had a discussion about this issue with a local code official. According to him, as long as the end of the conduit have the appropriate bushings to protect the court from fraying it's perfectly legal! For my application I used a 2" conduit with a LB on each end with a bushing in these threaded side that was sticking out.


mattmag
Premium,ExMod 2000-03
join:2000-04-09
NW Illinois
kudos:3

said by Msradell:

According to him, as long as the end of the conduit have the appropriate bushings to protect the court from fraying it's perfectly legal!

That doesn't make it code-compliant; it only means that particular AHJ will give it a pass.


Jodokast96
Stupid people really piss me off.
Premium
join:2005-11-23
Erial, NJ
kudos:2
Reviews:
·Verizon Online DSL
reply to Jodokast96

To be brief. Could I install a new run to this location? Yes, and spend the better part of the day doing it (fishing to my box is no simple feat). Or make two cuts and be done in 10 minutes (it's a wall I put in, so I know for a fact there is nothing in it, and the back side can be completely opened if need be). Not quite the same amount of work and effort some mentioned. And $50 for one of the kits is ridiculous. What it looks like I will do is drop the cord for now, and in the next week or so find an inlet and make my own kit since I have everything else they come with on hand. I understand there are codes for a reason, but like someone else alluded to, common sensed gets you just as far.
--
"To me EVFs are like putting complex computer circuitry in a ballpoint pen to regulate ink flow." - GibbyTheMole



Msradell
P.E.
Premium
join:2008-12-25
Louisville, KY
reply to mattmag

said by mattmag:

said by Msradell:

According to him, as long as the end of the conduit have the appropriate bushings to protect the court from fraying it's perfectly legal!

That doesn't make it code-compliant; it only means that particular AHJ will give it a pass.

I don't believe that's the case because he told me what code section permitted it to be done that way. I didn't write it down at the time because it didn't matter. I do remember it was from the NEC, I believe the 2009 edition. His explanation was that because it was in conduit it was protected and not subject to damage.

AsherN
Premium
join:2010-08-23
Thornhill, ON
reply to Jodokast96

Assuming the nearest outlet is in the middle of a chain, could you not just as simply disconnect the outbound wire, connect a new wire going to the back of the TV and back down, and complete the circuit with wire nuts? effectively just adding an outlet to the existing circuit.



Jodokast96
Stupid people really piss me off.
Premium
join:2005-11-23
Erial, NJ
kudos:2
Reviews:
·Verizon Online DSL

There are no easily accessible outlets I can jump off of. Had there been, that would have been the first thing I'd done. While I did mention an outlet on the other side of the wall in question, it's not on the same wall, but one perpendicular to it.
--
"To me EVFs are like putting complex computer circuitry in a ballpoint pen to regulate ink flow." - GibbyTheMole


AsherN
Premium
join:2010-08-23
Thornhill, ON

So where are you plugging the cord you're dropping in the wall??



radek row

@206.47.249.x
reply to 02778712

said by 02778712:

You can't easily do that though. In Massachusetts here that requires a permit. In some cities that means a licensed professional. Now your hitting the minimums so the job is going to be ~$150 plus $10-15 for a permit. Not to mention you might need to take time off work to deal with stuff. Most electricians charge like $50 to pull the permit on jobs under like $500-1,000 so you have to take time off work or pay extra to get the permit. That 'easy' job is now going to cost you like $200-225 bucks. Just cutting a hole and popping a cord through costs zero. The alternative is do the work without a permit. I wouldn't trust most people's DIY electrical work myself. That might cause a larger problem then a cord through the wall. You do the math there.

why take time off work? cant you wait till you get home from work in the afternoon and make the appointment for the contractor to show up then? makes logical sense to me, or have him come by on a weekend or your day off, you must have atleast 2 days off in a week, no?


radek row

@206.47.249.x

if you really want a tv wall mounted then u need to make a decision is it worth running the wire through the wall and getting the necessary permits (onyl applies to massachusis) here in ontario and the rest of canada or usa permits are not required so we can do it easy, otherwise just stick the extention cord and run it down (not in your wall) your wall which will meet code but be ugly, so if u want it to look nice you must pony up some $$$



cdru
Go Colts
Premium,MVM
join:2003-05-14
Fort Wayne, IN
kudos:7
reply to Jodokast96

said by Jodokast96:

Are those male outlets readily available? I already have everything else on hand.

Does mail order count as readily? Google "Midlite MDT4642W" for a variety of sources. I thought I remember seeing a similar item at either Home Depot or Lowes as a separate item, not part of a kit.

I used the Midlite inlet along with a 2 gang wall plate, some smurf tube, and the appropriate old work box for my TV. One side of the wall plate has an opening allowing AV cables to go through so that they are hidden as well.


02778712

join:2013-07-08
MA
reply to radek row

said by radek row :

said by 02778712:

You can't easily do that though. In Massachusetts here that requires a permit. In some cities that means a licensed professional. Now your hitting the minimums so the job is going to be ~$150 plus $10-15 for a permit. Not to mention you might need to take time off work to deal with stuff. Most electricians charge like $50 to pull the permit on jobs under like $500-1,000 so you have to take time off work or pay extra to get the permit. That 'easy' job is now going to cost you like $200-225 bucks. Just cutting a hole and popping a cord through costs zero. The alternative is do the work without a permit. I wouldn't trust most people's DIY electrical work myself. That might cause a larger problem then a cord through the wall. You do the math there.

why take time off work? cant you wait till you get home from work in the afternoon and make the appointment for the contractor to show up then? makes logical sense to me, or have him come by on a weekend or your day off, you must have atleast 2 days off in a week, no?

Have to go to the CITY for a PERMIT during business hours so you have to take time off to pull your own permit. I think you're confused about something.