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whizkid3
Premium,MVM
join:2002-02-21
Queens, NY
kudos:9
reply to Jodokast96

Re: [Electrical] Code question

said by Jodokast96:

So it's against code to run a power cable in a wall, ie. wall mounted tv. Question #1 - Why?

Because its a fire hazard.

said by Jodokast96:

Question #2 - Is it ok to run it through the wall to an outlet on the other side?

No. Its not code compliant to run equipment/appliance power cords through walls, partitions, floors, ceilings, windows or doors.

Why don't you install a receptacle to serve the television?

said by Msradell:

Another option is to install a large (2"+/-) in the wall open at both ends. You can then run your audio and video cables as well as a power cord through that conduit whenever you need to.

Its not a lawful option. Sticking a conduit through a wall, still doesn't make it lawful to run an appliance cord through a wall.


battleop

join:2005-09-28
00000
"Because its a fire hazard."

Is there any evidence that doing this has ever cause a fire?

Not trying to argue if its right or wrong.
--
I do not, have not, and will not work for AT&T/Comcast/Verizon/Charter or similar sized company.

JoelC707
Premium
join:2002-07-09
Lanett, AL
kudos:5
said by battleop:

Is there any evidence that doing this has ever cause a fire?

Fire hazard issues aren't always about causing a fire but also what happens during a fire. The type of jacket on the wire may give off toxic fumes when exposed to high heat (fire).

Now, usually this issue is more in multi-tennant buildings where the fire may not be in your area but those fumes may easily travel to you; after all it could easily be argued that you're not going to remain in the structure during a fire to breathe in those fumes.

As for causing a fire, wires usually operate with the ability to dissipate heat in open air. The problem is most walls have insulation in them which will prohibit that dissipation. In that case, the wire (assuming not properly rated for that case) could overheat and melt/catch fire.


battleop

join:2005-09-28
00000

1 recommendation

"Fire hazard issues aren't always about causing a fire but also what happens during a fire. The type of jacket on the wire may give off toxic fumes when exposed to high heat (fire)."

In a fire (source or not) it's not going to matter because its going to give off fumes.

"As for causing a fire, wires usually operate with the ability to dissipate heat in open air. The problem is most walls have insulation in them which will prohibit that dissipation. In that case, the wire (assuming not properly rated for that case) could overheat and melt/catch fire."

Most of the time interior walls are not insulated. If the cable is undersized to the point it's going to melt in the wall there is a pretty good chance it's going to melt in that big ball of wire behind the entertainment center.
--
I do not, have not, and will not work for AT&T/Comcast/Verizon/Charter or similar sized company.


radek row

@206.47.249.x
why do people want to take the "SHORTCUT" And run an appliance power cable through a wall, when the amount of work and effort to do that you can easily string a piece of romex through the wall and attach a proper electrical outlet to plug in your tv and thus meeting canadian electrical code requirements, dont forget to turn off the breaker in your hydro panel before connecting the live wires, i know someone who didnt and got a shock of his life time, thankfully hes alive


battleop

join:2005-09-28
00000
"why do people want to take the "SHORTCUT" And run an appliance power cable through a wal"

Probably because many people are scared of working in a panel because so many people make such a huge deal about consulting a professional. That makes it sound scary dangerous compared to running a cord through a hole in the wall will probably never come close to getting warm enough to catch fire.
--
I do not, have not, and will not work for AT&T/Comcast/Verizon/Charter or similar sized company.


02778712

join:2013-07-08
MA
reply to radek row
said by radek row :

why do people want to take the "SHORTCUT" And run an appliance power cable through a wall, when the amount of work and effort to do that you can easily string a piece of romex through the wall and attach a proper electrical outlet to plug in your tv and thus meeting canadian electrical code requirements, dont forget to turn off the breaker in your hydro panel before connecting the live wires, i know someone who didnt and got a shock of his life time, thankfully hes alive

You can't easily do that though. In Massachusetts here that requires a permit. In some cities that means a licensed professional. Now your hitting the minimums so the job is going to be ~$150 plus $10-15 for a permit. Not to mention you might need to take time off work to deal with stuff. Most electricians charge like $50 to pull the permit on jobs under like $500-1,000 so you have to take time off work or pay extra to get the permit. That 'easy' job is now going to cost you like $200-225 bucks. Just cutting a hole and popping a cord through costs zero. The alternative is do the work without a permit. I wouldn't trust most people's DIY electrical work myself. That might cause a larger problem then a cord through the wall. You do the math there.


Kordz

@70.65.252.x
In my old house for my wall mount I had all av And power cord run through a hole behind the tv. Zip tied down along the stud and then back out a hole behind the components. The other side of the wall was unfinished I dint know if that "technically" makes a difference or not. But my tv power cord went through not one put two holes in dry wall. Luckily I lived to tell this story.


Msradell
P.E.
Premium
join:2008-12-25
Louisville, KY
reply to whizkid3
said by whizkid3:

said by Msradell:

Another option is to install a large (2"+/-) in the wall open at both ends. You can then run your audio and video cables as well as a power cord through that conduit whenever you need to.

Its not a lawful option. Sticking a conduit through a wall, still doesn't make it lawful to run an appliance cord through a wall.

I actually had a discussion about this issue with a local code official. According to him, as long as the end of the conduit have the appropriate bushings to protect the court from fraying it's perfectly legal! For my application I used a 2" conduit with a LB on each end with a bushing in these threaded side that was sticking out.


mattmag
Premium,ExMod 2000-03
join:2000-04-09
NW Illinois
kudos:3
said by Msradell:

According to him, as long as the end of the conduit have the appropriate bushings to protect the court from fraying it's perfectly legal!

That doesn't make it code-compliant; it only means that particular AHJ will give it a pass.


Msradell
P.E.
Premium
join:2008-12-25
Louisville, KY
said by mattmag:

said by Msradell:

According to him, as long as the end of the conduit have the appropriate bushings to protect the court from fraying it's perfectly legal!

That doesn't make it code-compliant; it only means that particular AHJ will give it a pass.

I don't believe that's the case because he told me what code section permitted it to be done that way. I didn't write it down at the time because it didn't matter. I do remember it was from the NEC, I believe the 2009 edition. His explanation was that because it was in conduit it was protected and not subject to damage.


radek row

@206.47.249.x
reply to 02778712
said by 02778712:

You can't easily do that though. In Massachusetts here that requires a permit. In some cities that means a licensed professional. Now your hitting the minimums so the job is going to be ~$150 plus $10-15 for a permit. Not to mention you might need to take time off work to deal with stuff. Most electricians charge like $50 to pull the permit on jobs under like $500-1,000 so you have to take time off work or pay extra to get the permit. That 'easy' job is now going to cost you like $200-225 bucks. Just cutting a hole and popping a cord through costs zero. The alternative is do the work without a permit. I wouldn't trust most people's DIY electrical work myself. That might cause a larger problem then a cord through the wall. You do the math there.

why take time off work? cant you wait till you get home from work in the afternoon and make the appointment for the contractor to show up then? makes logical sense to me, or have him come by on a weekend or your day off, you must have atleast 2 days off in a week, no?


radek row

@206.47.249.x
if you really want a tv wall mounted then u need to make a decision is it worth running the wire through the wall and getting the necessary permits (onyl applies to massachusis) here in ontario and the rest of canada or usa permits are not required so we can do it easy, otherwise just stick the extention cord and run it down (not in your wall) your wall which will meet code but be ugly, so if u want it to look nice you must pony up some $$$


02778712

join:2013-07-08
MA
reply to radek row
said by radek row :

said by 02778712:

You can't easily do that though. In Massachusetts here that requires a permit. In some cities that means a licensed professional. Now your hitting the minimums so the job is going to be ~$150 plus $10-15 for a permit. Not to mention you might need to take time off work to deal with stuff. Most electricians charge like $50 to pull the permit on jobs under like $500-1,000 so you have to take time off work or pay extra to get the permit. That 'easy' job is now going to cost you like $200-225 bucks. Just cutting a hole and popping a cord through costs zero. The alternative is do the work without a permit. I wouldn't trust most people's DIY electrical work myself. That might cause a larger problem then a cord through the wall. You do the math there.

why take time off work? cant you wait till you get home from work in the afternoon and make the appointment for the contractor to show up then? makes logical sense to me, or have him come by on a weekend or your day off, you must have atleast 2 days off in a week, no?

Have to go to the CITY for a PERMIT during business hours so you have to take time off to pull your own permit. I think you're confused about something.


datguy11

@verizon.net
Its also about insurance companies... Have a fire in your house that's been isolated to an illegal power cord ran in the walls for your tv might give them an out for paying your damages!


02778712

join:2013-07-08
MA
said by datguy11 :

Its also about insurance companies... Have a fire in your house that's been isolated to an illegal power cord ran in the walls for your tv might give them an out for paying your damages!

Play the lottery. You have better odds if you want to worry about insanely impossible events happening. I bet you have better odds of being struck by lightning, being mauled by a black bear, AND being mauled by a brown bear all on the same day. I'd definitely worry about it though!


whizkid3
Premium,MVM
join:2002-02-21
Queens, NY
kudos:9

1 edit
reply to Msradell
said by Msradell:

I don't believe that's the case because he told me what code section permitted it to be done that way. I didn't write it down at the time because it didn't matter. I do remember it was from the NEC, I believe the 2009 edition. His explanation was that because it was in conduit it was protected and not subject to damag

Your so-called 'code official' is wrong. There is nothign in the NEC that provides any exception to the prohibition of running power cords through walls, if they are protected from damage. Likewise, there is no such thing as a 2009 NEC. Sorry, but your whole discussion reeks of baloney, IMHO.

said by dandeman:

I have not personally seen or used the above products, but hopefully in their design of the product, UL listing approval, and supplied documentation, they have a code compliant solution to the problem being discussed.

nunya, whizkid, does this seem a reasonably accurate summation of the problem and an acceptable solution?

I can't comment much on your 'summation' which seems to elaborate on the reason that one cant run power cords through walls. There is likely a myriad of reasons, but I have never reviewed the public debate on the issue that resulted in this code requirement. Honestly, I think its just common sense. On the opposite, there is only one reason that people want to run power cords through walls - cheapness. They don't want to spend money to do it or have it done properly in a code compliant fashion. That will never be an accepted reason that the electrical code will permit something. Yes, there are suitable, code compliant products. They cost money. One can do it properly; or wire it like a hillbilly. Its up to them.

garys_2k
Premium
join:2004-05-07
Farmington, MI

1 recommendation

This reminds me of the thread a few years ago where a guy wanted to run power to a platic garden shed via a "permanently installed" extension cord. He just didn't want to hear "NO" no matter what.