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randomizer98

@207.179.176.x

[Internet] Rogers internet, IP rotation

Does Rogers internet cycle IP addresses often? Or is it possible to force the IP to cycle? I was on Teksavvy internet but it's not available here now but I liked that I could cycle my IP whenever I needed to.


kinzy

@shawcable.net
if your using a standard modem its simple. if your using an all in one modem router combo i dont know if this will work.

change mac address on router. you can change it t anything yo u want. i recommend changing 1 number. fully reboot modem. reboot the router if youd like (some older ones might need rebooting for the new mac to take effect. mine doesnt)


randomizer98

@207.179.176.x
oh so i do the same thing as far as rebooting the router and/or modem. didnt know about mac's though because i heard you cant force a change on these services now.

thx.


kinzy

@shawcable.net
most devices you should be able to change the mac on. i dont think i have seen something u cant. even if its a modem router/combo try to find the mac and change it. but im not sure if that will work cause i have never done it

a dhcp server is whats giving you your ip. it takes the mac address of your device. and attaches it to an ip. then assigns that ip to a router or pc.

when you change mac address a reboot. you force the server to give you another ip, it has no choice not to. cause your old ip is associated with another mac. the reason you need to reboot is because the modem can only assign 1-2 ip's per power on. once its givin out 1-2 ip's in order to get new ones u need to reboot and change mac to get new ones.


sbrook
Premium,Mod
join:2001-12-14
Ottawa
kudos:13
Reviews:
·TekSavvy Cable
·WIND Mobile
kinzy, not quite. The IP address is allocated by the MAC of the modem and the MAC of the connected device. If you release the IP address and change the MAC of the connected device, there is still a good possibility that the DHCP server will pull the same IP address based on the MAC of the modem.
Expand your moderator at work

zamarac

join:2008-11-29

1 edit
reply to randomizer98

Re: [Internet] Rogers internet, IP rotation

Many Rogers modems don't seem to have an option in webGUI to change their Mac address. Even if they had, is it possible at all, given your Service Subscription plan is probably linked to your modem Mac? So if you change your modem Mac, would you be able to access the web? Or your sub is linked to modem Serial, and its Mac can be changed to anything if possible?

Also, why modem IP is assigned based on its Mac and the router's Mac hooked to the modem? What the LAN side router has to do with WAN IP, unless the modem is bridged? And if its a combo gateway, the LAN side router is integrated with the modem, so the field to change its Mac from webGUI might not be visible too.

Another option is unplugging the modem. Would 8 hours unplugged be enough on Rogers network to get a different IP?


sbrook
Premium,Mod
join:2001-12-14
Ottawa
kudos:13
Reviews:
·TekSavvy Cable
·WIND Mobile

1 edit
Most Rogers modems are gateways today.

For a simple modem -

A modem gets a WAN side IP address of its own (which is a LOCAL address ... typically 10.*.*.* or 7.*.*.* and used by the cable operator to access the modem)

A modem has a LAN side IP address ... typically 192.168.100.1

The modem does NOT get or see the WAN external IP address ... that is obtained by the Customer Premises Equipment - CPE - (your computer if connected directly to the modem or your router if you're using that in Gateway or NAT mode ... as most residential routers are)

For gateways (which are essentially routers behind modems combined)

A gateway similarly gets a WAN side IP address for itself.

It also has a LAN side IP address to access both the MODEM functions and the Router functions.

The Router portion of the gateway normally also gets a WAN side CPE IP address.

When you use a Router or Gateway, they are the "Customer Premises Equipment" that the world sees. The world cannot directly see computers connected behind the Gateway or Router. The modem is the interface and translates information to the correct computer based on connection tables.

Most cable companies can only allocate you 1 or 2 IP addresses. To ensure that they don't allocate more addresses than that they use the MAC of the MODEM itself and the MAC of the CPE to count the number of IPs allocated.

You can't change the MAC of the modem or the modem portion of a gateway and you don't want to. It's what the cable company uses to identify your service as you surmised.

What you want to do is change the MAC of the CPE ... which is the Router, or the Router portion of the gateway. But most gateways don't allow you to change the MAC of the Router portion and the cable companies probably don't want you to: they want the right to spy on what's behind the router!!!

This is why many users will put the gateway units in Bridge mode and then put their own router behind the bridged modem, so they have more control over their own network.

zamarac

join:2008-11-29

4 edits
Thanks for your always detail and knowledgeable explanations going way back on this forum!

I tried to change the Mac of own router behind the Gateway, but it didn't trigger reboot of the gateway, so the WAN IP of gateway's integrated router didn't change either. How would I change the WAN IP then - only by putting the Gateway into Bridge mode, then changing Mac of my own router behind it? And how to find out the modem WAN IP on ISP network (as opposed to WAN IP of the gateway router)?

Relevant issue you mentioned - LAN security. Goolge search usually yields an ISP admin login & password for your modem, and default user login & password. But after login to the Gateway as ISP admin, it still doesn't show the options to change admin login and password, only to change user login and password. So, how to ensure LAN security, if all admin passwords are wide posted on the web, and can't be changed by a user, whether logged in as a user or admin? Basically, anyone from the web can setup port forwarding, change gateway firewall setting etc, unless you switch off remote config access - or even if its switched off.


sbrook
Premium,Mod
join:2001-12-14
Ottawa
kudos:13
Reviews:
·TekSavvy Cable
·WIND Mobile
To stand a chance of changing the IP, you essentially have to release the CPE WAN IP address, and better to turn off your gateway and router. Leave them off for a while then turn them back on. It's still not guaranteed, but there's a good chance that the IP will change.

Rogers doesn't release the Admin login credentials. Some folks manage to find it and sometimes it will be posted here, but Rogers quite often sends out updates and resets which often changes the credentials!

zamarac

join:2008-11-29
How would you release CPE WAN IP, when there is no such option in the gateway webGUI? Any other way?

To change the IP, one may try to assign temporarily a Static IP to the gateway if such option is available in its GUI. There are known tools to find out unassigned IPs in a certain IP block on the network. But once the static IP is assigned, one might not have internet access - why is that?


sbrook
Premium,Mod
join:2001-12-14
Ottawa
kudos:13
Reviews:
·TekSavvy Cable
·WIND Mobile
Power down for at least 15 minutes to give Rogers CMTS and DHCP servers the opportunity to clear your MACs and assigned IP addresses from the assignment tables. As I noted, this may or may not work because of the time it takes to clear the tables, and it may be that the next available IP it chooses just happens to be the one you release. (Whatever the algorithm it uses, this does seem to happen fairly regularly)

You can't assign, nor should you if you could, a static IP address to the WAN via the gateway. It may not be routed if you use a non rogers address, and if you use a Rogers address, it may be a duplicate of someone else's.

zamarac

join:2008-11-29

3 edits
said by sbrook:

it may be a duplicate of someone else's.

But when a static IP belongs to a block of the same ISP and is unassigned, i.e. not a duplicate based on the tools network scan, why there is still no internet access when using it? It can be used temporary, until a new dynamic IP is assigned by DHCP server later.

Since the ISP assigns dynamic IPs with very long renewal interval, there is no practical difference for a residential customer between static and dynamic IPs, so reassigning it only needed to change their IP for awhile. Changing IP for privacy or security reasons is the user right, and should not be made so difficult by the ISP. Its in line with other broadly used lawful measures like VPN, HTTPS, Proxy, Tor, etc, and does not require special justification or explanation.

said by sbrook:

they want the right to spy on what's behind the router!!!

How changing Mac address of a gateway router may affect cable company's ability to spy on someone? They still have admin password and can change any security settings of the Gateway.


sbrook
Premium,Mod
join:2001-12-14
Ottawa
kudos:13
Reviews:
·TekSavvy Cable
·WIND Mobile
The modem will not be brought on line if you change the modem MAC.

The cable companies just don't want to give their customers access to the functions. Some of their tools address the systems by MAC and not IP.

Your net tools may not detect a duplicate IP. If you select a static IP, your traffic may not be routed to you. It is how the technology works. Cable and PPPoE ISPs use dynamic IP assignment and route accordingly. If you pick your own static IP, they don't know how to route to you. They don't know that they need to send traffic for that IP to your modem.

Dynamic IP assignment is a condition of the service that you sign up for. It's not a right at all. If you want privacy and security, don't go on the internet.

You've got to understand how this works ... ISPs for residential service buy access to the internet and then provide you with access to it under THEIR terms and conditions. It's their service they can sell it how they want.

zamarac

join:2008-11-29
said by sbrook:

If you pick your own static IP, they don't know how to route to you.

Hmm.. people do it every day on their LAN, and everything works. The same Mac to IP linking is likely done automatically on ISP end, when a static modem IP is assigned on the user end. Changing IPs is not prohibited by ToS, and tools like this provide reliable lawful unused IP detection in a certain IP block.


sbrook
Premium,Mod
join:2001-12-14
Ottawa
kudos:13
Reviews:
·TekSavvy Cable
·WIND Mobile
You're not getting it.

The IPs are assigned to your by a DHCP server and from that, the routing is set up in routing tables. If you manually pick an IP, that IP is NOT in Rogers routing tables so packets sent to you are not located.

The mechanism in a home router is different. It uses a technique called network address translation to do the packet routing, because your LAN IP is typically 192.168.0.* (a "non-routable" address) so the router looks at your outbound TCP "connections" and builds a map, so that packets to/from that connection are identified as being from you. This is why too many connections can cause residential routers to run into problems.

It may be considered evidence of unlawful activity, such as theft of service, to use an IP that is not assigned to you.

You need to read the Acceptable Use Policy which forms part of the terms and conditions ...

In particular ...

Prohibited Activities
...
(v) access the Internet via the Services using Internet Protocol (IP)
addresses other than the IP address(es) assigned to you by us
...
(xi) alter, reproduce, or tamper with the Services or any function,
component or identifier of your Equipment, such as the
Electronic Serial Number (ESN) or the International Mobile
Equipment Identity (IMEI) that is not meant to be altered,
reproduced or tampered with
...
(xiii) disrupt any backbone network nodes or network service,
or otherwise restrict, inhibit, disrupt or impede our ability to
monitor or deliver the Services, any transmissions or data
...
(xviii) forge headers or otherwise manipulate identifiers in order
to disguise the origin of any content transmitted through the
Services

zamarac

join:2008-11-29

1 edit
said by sbrook:

theft of service, to use an IP that is not assigned to you

If it were technically possible, but from what I read on the web and asked you to clarify, it doesn't seem possible. Thanks for your clarification though, its quite useful.

Still it doesn't justify the ISP making it very difficult to change IP for customers who don't intend to steal their service or for any reason that is not illegal. Some ISPs offer to release WAN IP right in their modems webgui settings.


sbrook
Premium,Mod
join:2001-12-14
Ottawa
kudos:13
Reviews:
·TekSavvy Cable
·WIND Mobile
I haven't seen an ISP offer that. Back before 2002, when Rogers internet was provided by @home, they did allocate static IP addresses, but transitioned to Dynamic because that became the most efficient way to manage it all.

For these technical reasons, Rogers doesn't offer static IPs to their customers anyway. Even the commercial customers have Dynamic IPs (that are predefined).

wayner92

join:2006-01-17
Toronto, ON
But aren't the Rogers IP addresses static for all intents and purposes. My IP rarely changes, although it did after the Christmas ice storm when my internet was down for 6 days.


sbrook
Premium,Mod
join:2001-12-14
Ottawa
kudos:13
Reviews:
·TekSavvy Cable
·WIND Mobile
zamarac wants to be able to change his IP ... he thought he could do it by just creating his own static IP. Even though Rogers IPs rarely change, they are dynamic ... you can't, for example, set a server up on one and advertise it by a name server without using a "follower".

Jelllo

join:2013-12-29
reply to randomizer98
The easiest way I have found to change my ip is to change my modem from gateway to bridged mode, power down for about 15 minutes and then power up.

zamarac

join:2008-11-29
Because... such change exposes to the web the Mac of previously concealed own router? But as mentioned in this thread, changing a router's Mac doesn't always result in assigning a different WAN IP. Or it does - probably most likely in high density population areas, where requests to the system for new IPs from various modems are more frequent?

It was also mentioned, a chance of getting a new IP after disconnecting, waiting and reconnecting a modem is higher at night. Why is that?


sbrook
Premium,Mod
join:2001-12-14
Ottawa
kudos:13
Reviews:
·TekSavvy Cable
·WIND Mobile
Same thing ... it releases all the IPs assigned to the modem's MAC and then hopefully they get assigned to somebody else and then you'll get a different one. Just remember that part of the reason that you may not comes from part of the DHCP process ...

The DHCP client in your device says to the host

"hello, I was (old IP); please renew me"

Whether it's a renewal or a new IP request ...

For a new one when you first power on the device, it's

"Hello, I was 127.0.0.1; please renew me" Which the DHCP says to itself he can't have that (cause it's localhost, or 0.0.0.0 a nonsense IP), I'll give him a new one. And replies "Here is your: IP 12.34.56.78 and you have it for 24 hours."

Thereafter, it's "Hello, I sas 192.168.0.10 (or whatever IP is stored in its memory), please renew me". DHCP says "Let's see, 192.168.0.10 isn't available. Next available is 192.168.23.123" ao reples "Here is your IP: 192.168.23.123 and you have it for 24 hours"

If on the other hand, if the IP in your request IS still available, then it will be given back to you ... e.g. "Here is your IP: 192.168.0.10 and you have it for 24 hours"

Now, if your Desktop is connected directly to the modem and powered down or rebooted, it will forget its old IP and should get a new one. BUT Here's the rub, your router will store this in flash or other memory that often survives short term power outages and reboots etc. SO you often end up with the old IP. If you can figure out a way to make your router forget