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pro pain

@mycingular.net
reply to Jack_in_VA

Re: [HVAC] Propane Price

I'm in much the same situation as you. I have a 100 gallon tank and use propane for the stove, dryer and generator. 250' away, my neighbor has a 1000 gallon tank since they are all gas. Since we have been friends and neighbors for many years, my neighbor has my tank topped off when he gets a delivery. The driver prints a separate ticket for each fill but we both get the same price since it's considered a single delivery. I pay him for my fuel as soon as I get the delivery ticket. We both own our tanks outright and we've been doing this for over ten years without a hitch. Just a thought.


SwedishRider
Rider on the Storm
Premium
join:2006-01-11
not Sweden
kudos:1
reply to Jack_in_VA
Just got a fill-up: $2.74/gal. At 91,500 btu/gal with a typical 95% efficient furnace, it works out to 31,724 btu/$.

Home heating oil is about $3.60/gal (last I knew). At 138,500 btu/gal with a typical 85% efficient furnace, it works out to 32,701 btu/$.

Propane has essentially hit parity with home heating fuel.


pende_tim
Premium
join:2004-01-04
Andover, NJ
kudos:1
Reviews:
·Comcast

1 edit
I typically pay around $0.101 KWh for electricity including all the fees Delaware Electric Co-Op charges. My Goodman 3Ton, 18 seer 2 stage heat pump, on high stage, puts out 22,000 BTUs and uses 2.83 Kw at a 17* F outdoor temp. This is per the specs published by Goodman.

This calculates to 95,536 btu/$ .

On low stage the conversion is 85,960 btu/$

On straight strip heat, the cost is 31,100 btu/$

This is why Jack was so anxious to get his heat pump running again.
--
The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits.


Jack_in_VA
Premium
join:2007-11-26
North, VA
kudos:1
Reviews:
·Millenicom

said by pende_tim See Profile
This is why Jack was so anxious to get his heat pump running again.
[/bquote :

My billing cycle was Dec 12 2013 to Jan 15, 2014.

Last years usage for the period was 2028 kWh. ($197.81)

Compressor failed 12/26 and went on strip heaters.

Usage this year 4148 kWh ($383.24) Read 1/15/14

That's why I was so anxious.

It's been very cold here so my usage probably reflects some of that.

This compressor is only about 1/2 as noisy as the first 2 giving credence to what I read on an HVAC site that stated that out of 100 scrolls 1/2 might be noisy but work fine.


iknow_t

join:2012-05-03
said by Jack_in_VA:

said by pende_tim See Profile
This is why Jack was so anxious to get his heat pump running again.
[/bquote :

My billing cycle was Dec 12 2013 to Jan 15, 2014.

Last years usage for the period was 2028 kWh. ($197.81)

Compressor failed 12/26 and went on strip heaters.

Usage this year 4148 kWh ($383.24) Read 1/15/14

That's why I was so anxious.

It's been very cold here so my usage probably reflects some of that.

This compressor is only about 1/2 as noisy as the first 2 giving credence to what I read on an HVAC site that stated that out of 100 scrolls 1/2 might be noisy but work fine.

it seems they are made in
Europe (Ireland), Thailand, China and US. so you might have gotten one made in China or Thailand..


Jack_in_VA
Premium
join:2007-11-26
North, VA
kudos:1
Reviews:
·Millenicom
Quite possible. Alliance is a joint venture with Lennox, Trane and Copeland (owned by Emerson). Their manufacturing most likely is not in the US. Most companies it seems are manufacturing off shore. Trane reciprocating Climatuff compressors were manufactured in Mexico. I don't know if that's still true.

Mr Matt

join:2008-01-29
Eustis, FL
kudos:1
Reviews:
·Millenicom
·Embarq Now Centu..
·Comcast
·CenturyLink
reply to Jack_in_VA
said by Jack_in_VA:

I haven't bought any lately as the last I bought was $4.35/gal which I thought was outright theft.

One of the reasons for high propane prices is consolidation. We have a friend that purchased a home in Eustis, Florida in 1982. Everything that produced heat in the home used propane. I was considering having a propane powered standby generator installed in 2010 but gave up because of outrageously high propane prices. I discussed the situation with my friend and learned that until around 2005 propane was an economical fuel. They pointed out that since then many small propane sellers were purchased by larger dealers, the problem in this area is lack of competition. My friend installed a standby generator in 2004 but can no longer afford to run it continuously during a long term outage. Furthermore there is only one nearby dealer. All other dealers trucks have to travel 15 to 30 miles to deliver propane. Their dealer, Amerigas has started adding crap charges to bills. See their terms and conditions for their list of crap charges:
»www.amerigas.com/residential/pay···erms.htm


pende_tim
Premium
join:2004-01-04
Andover, NJ
kudos:1
My daughter who is in Milton, Delaware just got her tank filled yesterday. 190 gal/ $2.99/gal ...OUCH.
--
The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits.

JoelC707
Premium
join:2002-07-09
Lanett, AL
kudos:5
reply to Jack_in_VA
Figured I'd add my data here. Had our 100 gallon tank filled a week ago or so and it was $2.49/gal from Halls gas company in Lanett, AL.


Jack_in_VA
Premium
join:2007-11-26
North, VA
kudos:1
Reviews:
·Millenicom
reply to Mr Matt
said by Mr Matt:

said by Jack_in_VA:

I haven't bought any lately as the last I bought was $4.35/gal which I thought was outright theft.

One of the reasons for high propane prices is consolidation. We have a friend that purchased a home in Eustis, Florida in 1982. Everything that produced heat in the home used propane. I was considering having a propane powered standby generator installed in 2010 but gave up because of outrageously high propane prices. I discussed the situation with my friend and learned that until around 2005 propane was an economical fuel. They pointed out that since then many small propane sellers were purchased by larger dealers, the problem in this area is lack of competition. My friend installed a standby generator in 2004 but can no longer afford to run it continuously during a long term outage. Furthermore there is only one nearby dealer. All other dealers trucks have to travel 15 to 30 miles to deliver propane. Their dealer, Amerigas has started adding crap charges to bills. See their terms and conditions for their list of crap charges:
»www.amerigas.com/residential/pay···erms.htm

Good grief!

We don't have competition here either and that is 99 percent of the problem.


SwedishRider
Rider on the Storm
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join:2006-01-11
not Sweden
kudos:1
reply to Jack_in_VA
I just bought a little over 300 gallons @ $2.74/gal. You do the math on the total bill.


Shrapnel64
Premium
join:2001-01-24
VA, USA
kudos:1
I guess I didn't get too bad of a price considering I bought it during July last year at $2.799. The minimum was 300 gallons but I ended up going with 325 (prior year was 251 gallons used).

I'm not too far from Mathews, and have been using Revere Gas since I moved to Gloucester in 2007. The price of propane has fluctuated quite a bit (upward trend).

Prior to my last "Pre-Season" (for the 2013-2014 heating season) bulk purchase, I was paying $3.299 on a price lock guarantee.

I suppose I'm glad I went heat pump for 90% of the Winter season and only use the gas pack for the 10% or so when temps drop below 30.


Jack_in_VA
Premium
join:2007-11-26
North, VA
kudos:1
Reviews:
·Millenicom
said by Shrapnel64:

I guess I didn't get too bad of a price considering I bought it during July last year at $2.799. The minimum was 300 gallons but I ended up going with 325 (prior year was 251 gallons used).

I'm not too far from Mathews, and have been using Revere Gas since I moved to Gloucester in 2007. The price of propane has fluctuated quite a bit (upward trend).

Prior to my last "Pre-Season" (for the 2013-2014 heating season) bulk purchase, I was paying $3.299 on a price lock guarantee.

I suppose I'm glad I went heat pump for 90% of the Winter season and only use the gas pack for the 10% or so when temps drop below 30.

Revere is my supplier also. In 1989 when I first used them they were ok but over the years have got progressively worse. My problem is I only have a free standing Buck stove with interior logs so I only have a 100 gallon tank that Revere now charges me rent on. I don't burn it and just keep it for emergency when power is out and I can't run my heat pump. Right now it's cheaper to let the strip heaters operate to help the heat pump maintain temperature in the house.

I talked to Phillips once in their Mathews Office. No help there. In fact the lady was downright caustic.


SwedishRider
Rider on the Storm
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Jack, have you thought about buying your own tank?


Jack_in_VA
Premium
join:2007-11-26
North, VA
kudos:1
Reviews:
·Millenicom
Yes but I haven't pursued it. I haven't bought any propane in several years and when and if I use what's in there I might just have them remove it and purchase my own. However from what I've heard there is a conspiracy with the suppliers that keeps the price/gal very close.

Same with gasoline here. Every station was $3.089/gallon today.


rfhar
The World Sport, Played In Every Country
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join:2001-03-26
Buicktown,Mi
Reviews:
·Power-Net Intern..
reply to SwedishRider
When I built this house the furnace man told me he had so much trouble with the high efficiency oil furnaces he did not want to sell me one. Have they become more reliable in the last decade or longer?

said by SwedishRider:

Just got a fill-up: $2.74/gal. At 91,500 btu/gal with a typical 95% efficient furnace, it works out to 31,724 btu/$.

Home heating oil is about $3.60/gal (last I knew). At 138,500 btu/gal with a typical 85% efficient furnace, it works out to 32,701 btu/$.

Propane has essentially hit parity with home heating fuel.

--
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Cure Disease with your computer


SwedishRider
Rider on the Storm
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join:2006-01-11
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reply to Jack_in_VA
Interesting. I have about 7 dealers that will deliver to me. One has consistently been the least expensive, but the spread is closing. Since I own the tank, I am free to receive deliveries from whomever I choose.


SwedishRider
Rider on the Storm
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join:2006-01-11
not Sweden
kudos:1
reply to rfhar
said by rfhar:

Have they become more reliable in the last decade or longer?

Don't really know. I have a high efficiency propane furnace, and I only have experience with a typical oil furnace from an apartment. Someone else here may know though.

ziuck

join:2001-01-11
Indianapolis, IN
reply to Jack_in_VA
Topped off my 1000 gallon tank at the end of December. 560 gallons added @ $1.79 central Indiana.

I use around 1000 gallons a year for an old farm house that has been partially remodeled. 3500 sq feet and 2 90% efficient furnaces.