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ImpldConsent
Under Siege
Premium
join:2001-03-04
Mcdonough, GA
Reviews:
·AT&T U-Verse
·magicjack.com

1 recommendation

Short Distro Reviews

Don't expect some huge geeky set of reviews here - nope, just one guy's simple observations.

HARDWARE: 2006.5 HP Laptop; 1.86 Pentium M (32bit); 2GB RAM; 80GB 7200 (PATA/IDE); DVD-RW; IP2200 wireless BG; Broadcom Corporation NetXtreme BCM5751M Gigabit wired; USB2; Hauppauge WinTV 950Q
=====================
Initial forays into Linux was prior to this laptop with RH(yxz) and Mandrake. Left all in favor of *doze and yet became frustrated again with the XPSP2 bloat. Went back to Linux again (yes, I still have PCs with W7Pro/64 and wife and kids have W8/64).
After running Fedora, Linux Mint 13 (Maya) and upgrading to LM15, then LM16, I became frustrated. Fedora is RPM based and I can't stand RPM. LM13 seemed fairly rock stable and this was similar with LM15. All applications either worked out of the box or with minor tweaks (example Skype). All distro's either came with or I installed LibreOffice, Chrome (or Chromium), Firefox, Thunderbird, Virtualbox (for dreaded *doze) and TVTime. Dabbled with other software, but those are my mainstay.

All distro's were installed via 'Live-USB' (hybrid ISO) - and I (personally) would not consider another distro unless it had this feature.

Linux Mint, in general, was fairly solid (offshoot of Debian-->Ubuntu-->Mint). DE was MATE on LM13 and it satisfied me. I went to Cinnamon on LM15 and the layout again was simple and effective. I rarely rebooted. This brought me to LM16. I'm not sure if it was the change in kernel (doubtful) or some weird other changes, but I would constantly freeze and have to do hard-resets. That was starting to irritate me, so I started looking around again. This distro is good for both beginner through advanced. Well done, but maybe some QA. 2yrs experience.

Debian 7.2 (KDE), wow, the KDE looks GREAT; however, a bit much for my dated hardware. I was surprised that there was no Software Manager and had to install Synaptic. There was quite a bit of configuration that I had to do that I was not used to and would not consider this as a 'Beginner' distro. Luckily, I had a decent knowledge of the CLI to make this work. All apps worked and the KDE, simply, is beautiful. Solid and rarely had to restart. 2months experience

Ubuntu 10.03 (no choice Unity). The install was weird - never been asked to create an online account (didn't) before. This thing totally overwhelmed my little laptop with the Dash feature. Although I understood the premise, it is and will be a different way of finding things. It is not intuitive to those used to a 'Bar->Apps' world. What I will say, is regardless of what I threw at it (webcams, secure card readers, WinTV), it did not balk. I never once had to restart (except a kernel update) or had to hard-power fail. Since Dash was killing me but I was very impressed with it being rock solid, I changed the desktop to xbuntu (ubuntu with Xfce) - perfect.

There are a gazillion distro's out there and I detest RedHat now. I'm willing to look at Fedora, but its still RPM based and not my favorite. I hear Zorin is a great replacement for Windows and is geared directly at beginners into Linux - to me - that's how to get an audience. I hear good things from PCLinuxOS as well - another beginner distro.
Given time and possibly some better marketing (ubuntu and Steam), these upcoming distros will see more and more audience.
--
That's "MISTER" Kafir to you Mr. Munafiq



rexbinary
Mod King
Premium
join:2005-01-26
Plano, TX

2 edits

Why do you dislike RPM? Also, why do you detest Red Hat?



ImpldConsent
Under Siege
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Reviews:
·AT&T U-Verse
·magicjack.com

said by rexbinary:

Why do you dislike RPM? Also, why do you detest Red Hat?

I'd rather just keep my small little reviews to a non-debate, but I understand because I used such strong language on RPM and RHL. ... so ...

RPM: Maybe they fixed the packaging, doubt it - but I remember having to RPM every-single-dependency. With Synaptic or even apt-get, my dependencies are laid out for me. This is where the Debian based distro's excel, package management. IMHO, RPM is fail.

Red Hat: The wanna-be M$ of Linux (Canonical is getting close too). Proprietary locked and lost the flavor of open-source unless it suits them to lock what others created (kernel). I like the Fedora fork because they kept the open-source and free. Don't get me wrong, corporate loves RHL because of the locked crap (and pay for it too) whereby they can have that little secure feeling.
--
That's "MISTER" Kafir to you Mr. Munafiq


Archivis
Your Daddy
Premium
join:2001-11-26
Earth
kudos:19

yum (the command that handles RPM stuff in RHEL) handles those inter-dependencies. I don't think I've had to deal the kind of RPM hell you speak of since the 90's.

Red Hat is the wannabe corporate choice of Linux distributions. In a world where corporations want enterprise support, Red Hat is the choice in the U.S. I've discovered that this is less common in other parts of the world.

It's not about "locking" stuff out (because they don't). It's about testing packages that are more stable for a server environment and supplying those (even if a little back-leveled) through their software channels.

They don't advertise RHEL as the ideal choice for home users. They're aiming for the corporate world.
--
A government big enough to give you everything you want, is strong enough to take everything you have. -MLK



rexbinary
Mod King
Premium
join:2005-01-26
Plano, TX
Reviews:
·Verizon FiOS
reply to ImpldConsent

I was just curious more than looking for debate. If you don't like them, then you don't like them and there is PLENTY of Linux out there to like as you know.

I would like to point out though that personally I have never had a problem with RPM or apt-get for that matter. Also, RHEL is a fork of Fedora actually. Last thing, I also don't believe CentOS and Scientific Linux would be possible if anything in RHEL was locked or proprietary.

Thanks for the reviews!
--
Verizon FiOS subscriber since 2005 | Mac owner since 1990 | Fedora user since 2006 | CentOS user since 2007 | "Anyone who is unwilling to learn is entitled to absolutely nothing." - graysonf | EDIT: I seldom post without an edit.


pablo
MVM
join:2003-06-23
kudos:1
reply to ImpldConsent

said by ImpldConsent:

Debian 7.2 (KDE), wow, the KDE looks GREAT; however, a bit much for my dated hardware. I was surprised that there was no Software Manager and had to install Synaptic. There was quite a bit of configuration that I had to do that I was not used to and would not consider this as a 'Beginner' distro. Luckily, I had a decent knowledge of the CLI to make this work. All apps worked and the KDE, simply, is beautiful. Solid and rarely had to restart. 2months experience

You might add openSUSE to your list. There you'll get KDE and YaST (a GUI based software manager). If you rather go CLI, you can use zypper.

Cheers,
-pablo
--
openSUSE/KDE 4.x
»pablo-blog.blueoakdb.com

TuxRaiderPen

join:2009-09-19

2 recommendations

reply to rexbinary

said by rexbinary:
Why do you dislike RPM? Also, why do you detest Red Hat?

For the most part.... what ImpldConsent See Profile said is dead on!

RE: RPM - nightmare

apt-get and deb do it better any day, any time... and MOST ESPECIALLY in resolving dependencies.

If I go sudo apt-get install package-abc, it happens. yum is not so yummy.

said by Archivis:
yum (the command that handles RPM stuff in RHEL) handles those inter-dependencies. I don't think I've had to deal the kind of RPM hell you speak of since the 90's.
Not my experience and this from a recent install.. nothing but headaches with RPM..nothing but headaches... and all related to

DEPENDENCIES.

said by Archivis:
Red Hat is the wannabe corporate choice of Linux distributions. In a world where corporations want enterprise support, Red Hat is the choice in the U.S. I've discovered that this is less common in other parts of the world.
That may be true.. but in a corporation why are they looking for support? ? Or we are discussing some kind of different support... In my agency and personally.. Support = MY . . . J - O - B! Period... That is why we hire people who understand and speak *NIX/BSD etc.. and not winboot jockeys...

said by Archivis:
It's not about "locking" stuff out (because they don't). It's about testing packages that are more stable for a server environment and supplying those (even if a little back-leveled) through their software channels.
I am not sure where the original post was headed in re this area.. and as non user or RH... I am not going to go down this hole....

said by Archivis:
They don't advertise RHEL as the ideal choice for home users. They're aiming for the corporate world.
You got that right!! They made it perfectly clear that desktop Linux users, personal or corporate need not apply! I got the message loud and clear... BYE BYE RH!

said by rexbinary:
I was just curious more than looking for debate. If you don't like them, then you don't like them and there is PLENTY of Linux out there to like as you know.
Well I find that statement incorrect... all too many threads here lead to some form of cheerleading for RH by you and several others... when just about any other distro is just as capable if not more.

You betcha Skippy I cheerlead for any thing other than RH et al! I prefer KMint and/or Kubuntu.. neither of which has met my needs as exactly as I want... so I just use a highly customized version of KUbuntu... I've got just as much vitrol for some of the things that both Debian and Canocial do....so don't think they are getting off the hook.. Debian = DFSG, for one... and as for Canoncial too many things to list just one..

I for one don't want to give share to RH or is derivatives if I don't have to.. I am forced to do so with some servers due to the need for CPanel... which only works with CentOS.. I can never get any one to divulge why this is the case.. what is so special in CentOS v. Debian v. Debian based like *buntus that CPanel can not have a version.... We purged out any and all RH based distros internally, and if CPanel ever delivers on a Debian based version.. we will seek out providers using it and/or move to dedicated with same.
--
1311393600 - Back to Black.....Black....Black....

Want health care? Get a job! No to ACA! No to USNHS or USHIP or anything like them!
Job = Benefits = Health care, simple.


Archivis
Your Daddy
Premium
join:2001-11-26
Earth
kudos:19

I guess we're off to the Moon in this thread. I'm out.

Expand your moderator at work


rexbinary
Mod King
Premium
join:2005-01-26
Plano, TX
reply to pablo

Re: Short Distro Reviews

said by pablo:

You might add openSUSE to your list.

He dislikes RPM.


darcilicious
Cyber Librarian
Premium
join:2001-01-02
Forest Grove, OR
kudos:4

3 recommendations

reply to ImpldConsent

My burning question is: when is the tall distro reviews going to be posted?
--
♬ Dragon of good fortune struggles with the trickster Fox ♬



leibold
Premium,MVM
join:2002-07-09
Sunnyvale, CA
kudos:9
Reviews:
·SONIC.NET
reply to rexbinary

SuSE uses RPM packages "behind the scenes" but manages package installation and software updates in a very userfriendly way (especially with regards to managing package dependencies).

SuSE also provides LiveCD/DVD and LiveUSB with install capability so based on everything posted so far may indeed be a suitable candidate for review by ImpldConsent See Profile.
--
Got some spare cpu cycles ? Join Team Helix or Team Starfire!



nwrickert
sand groper
Premium,MVM
join:2004-09-04
Geneva, IL
kudos:7
Reviews:
·AT&T U-Verse
reply to pablo

said by pablo:

You might add openSUSE to your list.

He doesn't like RPM.

I'm using opensuse 13.1, and have not had any problem with dependencies. For that matter, when I last tested Fedora (I think it was Fedora 18), I did not have any dependency woes. Still, opensuse does it better than Fedora (in my opinion).

Mint also seems pretty good. I last tried that with the MATE version. But perhaps I should use KDE if I try again (since I'm mainly a KDE person at present).
--
AT&T Uverse; Buffalo WHR-300HP router (behind the 2wire gateway); openSuSE 12.3; firefox 24.0


rexbinary
Mod King
Premium
join:2005-01-26
Plano, TX
Reviews:
·Verizon FiOS
reply to leibold

said by leibold:

SuSE uses RPM packages "behind the scenes" but manages package installation and software updates in a very userfriendly way (especially with regards to managing package dependencies).

SuSE also provides LiveCD/DVD and LiveUSB with install capability so based on everything posted so far may indeed be a suitable candidate for review by ImpldConsent See Profile.

Yes, I understand. My first linux was a boxed copy of SuSE Linux Professional 9.3. I'm just going by what the OP has stated.
--
Verizon FiOS subscriber since 2005 | Mac owner since 1990 | Fedora user since 2006 | CentOS user since 2007 | "Anyone who is unwilling to learn is entitled to absolutely nothing." - graysonf | EDIT: I seldom post without an edit.

pablo
MVM
join:2003-06-23
kudos:1
reply to nwrickert

said by nwrickert:

said by pablo:

You might add openSUSE to your list.

He doesn't like RPM.

Ah ... oh well ... there ya go ...

Cheers,
-pablo
--
openSUSE/KDE 4.x
»pablo-blog.blueoakdb.com

32207098

join:2013-12-19
Anaheim, CA
reply to ImpldConsent

Agreed PCLinuxOS is quite good for beginners, but the environment quality provided by Fedora is unbeatable. It is just so much customizable that one can do approximately anything. As if this wasn't enough, they also have spins for fedora. Fedora and Red Hat, in my opinion the everlasting Linux for us all.



Jason
Stowage Class Traveler
Premium,Mod
join:2001-01-24
38.2967 Lat
kudos:3
reply to ImpldConsent

I started with Red Hat, back in ~2000.. I liked it. The RHPM was okay, and as a noob, suited me well.

I lost touch with RH back when they forked to Fedora.

Linux.. Pretty much any distro, its like Cilantro.. I may love it, some others absolutely hate it. And you know what, Thats okay!

Keeping an open mind, works both ways.

Can we stick to more personal reviews, and less personal attacks?

Thank yous guys!

-Jason
--
When cryptography is outlawed, bayl bhgynjf jvyy unir cevinpl.



dark_star

join:2003-11-14
Louisville
kudos:1
reply to rexbinary

said by rexbinary:

Also, RHEL is a fork of Fedora actually.

Fedora is an off shoot of Red Hat. Red Hat was founded in 1993. Fedora came 10 years later, and the very name Fedora is a reference to the Red Hat fedora.


Pjr
Don't Panic

join:2005-12-11
UK
reply to TuxRaiderPen

said by TuxRaiderPen:


apt-get and deb do it better any day, any time... and MOST ESPECIALLY in resolving dependencies.

If I go sudo apt-get install package-abc, it happens. yum is not so yummy.

Hmmm, aptitude with apt-listbugs fell to bits the other day:
»us.generation-nt.com/answer/bug-···592.html

It wouldn't do anything until I manually installed ruby1.9.1. The transition of ruby1.8 to 1.9 hasn't been very "yummy".
--
Overflow error in /dev/null


ImpldConsent
Under Siege
Premium
join:2001-03-04
Mcdonough, GA
Reviews:
·AT&T U-Verse
·magicjack.com
reply to darcilicious

said by darcilicious:

My burning question is: when is the tall distro reviews going to be posted?

Thank you! I L'dMAO on this response. I see I was a bit hasty on my title. What I like about threads like this (/self-smug-smile) is that there IS discussion. To make *nix distro's easier for the average mom-pop that does not have computer engineering degree or experience from ENIAC to Google's Quantum Artificial Intelligence Labs.

Glad we're not hitting the fan-boi responses.
--
That's "MISTER" Kafir to you Mr. Munafiq


shdesigns
Powered By Infinite Improbabilty Drive
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Stone Mountain, GA
Reviews:
·Atlantic Nexus
reply to rexbinary

RPM is no different than other packages like .deb's.

I had Red Hat and RPM's worked fine even when it had no wrapper around rpm that managed dependancies. I switched to Fedora and later ran into "RPM Hell" often. I also ran into the same thing in Debian-based distros. Problems have more to do with the developers maintaining the packages rather than the package utilities.

I gave up on Fedora not because of RPM's but more that Fedora packages were poorly managed. I found the biggest cause of problems was packages requiring fixed version libraries. That breaks the update of any other package that requires the same library.

My server has run since 1995 and is currently running Gentoo. I tried several different distros over the years. As I don't do a reinstall for years, Gentoo has worked best as they manage packages well. I still run into package problems but their forums always have the problems documented with workarounds. Again, the problems are the package maintainers not Gentoo's ports/emerge.

I would not discount RPM's. I will probably go with Centos on the next reinstall. Evalulate distros on the developers quality of managing packages rather than the underlying mechanism.
--
Scott Henion

Embedded Systems Consultant,
SHDesigns home - DIY Welder



rexbinary
Mod King
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join:2005-01-26
Plano, TX
Reviews:
·Verizon FiOS

1 edit
reply to dark_star

Currently, RHEL is branched from Fedora code. Fedora is RHEL's upstream. I am referring to specific products. I was not referring to history but rather how things work today. So, again, today, RHEL is a fork of Fedora. Fedora is upstream. RHEL is downstream. Simple right?
--
Verizon FiOS subscriber since 2005 | Mac owner since 1990 | Fedora user since 2006 | CentOS user since 2007 | "Anyone who is unwilling to learn is entitled to absolutely nothing." - graysonf | EDIT: I seldom post without an edit.



nwrickert
sand groper
Premium,MVM
join:2004-09-04
Geneva, IL
kudos:7
Reviews:
·AT&T U-Verse

said by rexbinary:

Currently, RHEL is branched from Fedora code.

I would say that differently. I would describe Fedora as the experimental branch of RHEL.

Similarly, opensuse is the experimental test distro for SUSE enterprise. But I think the Red Hat folk are more consistent in keeping to the arrangement. In the SUSE world, the connections between opensuse and enterprise suse seem to be a bit more relaxed.
--
AT&T Uverse; Buffalo WHR-300HP router (behind the 2wire gateway); openSuSE 12.3; firefox 24.0


rexbinary
Mod King
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Reviews:
·Verizon FiOS

2 edits

You can say it differently but it would be incorrect and misleading.

Fedora is not a branch of anything currently other than it's own pre-release branch. It is the highest release upstream at Red Hat. Fedora is what Red Hat and the community works on everyday. Every so often, Red Hat forks off from the Fedora code base what will become the next RHEL picking the pieces they want. For instance RHEL 5 was forked from Fedora around Fedora Core 6 so RHEL 5 mostly resembles Fedora Core 6.

EDIT: Maybe this will help as well.

quote:
Red Hat Enterprise Linux (or RHEL) is a commercially supported derivative of Fedora tailored to meet the requirements of enterprise customers. It is a commercial product from Red Hat which also sponsors Fedora as a community project. Fedora is upstream for Red Hat Enterprise Linux but there are several other Derived distributions available too.
»fedoraproject.org/wiki/Red_Hat_E···?rd=RHEL

--
Verizon FiOS subscriber since 2005 | Mac owner since 1990 | Fedora user since 2006 | CentOS user since 2007 | "Anyone who is unwilling to learn is entitled to absolutely nothing." - graysonf | EDIT: I seldom post without an edit.


konqZ

join:2013-07-05
St Catharines, ON
reply to ImpldConsent

Since buying my new laptop last month, I've been doing a lot of distro-hoping. My top 5 would be as follows....
(My laptop - Lenovo Ideapad U530, i7 1.8Ghz dual core, 8GB RAM, 120GB SSD.)

1. Kubuntu 13.10: Although all Ubuntu based distros I had an issue with booting (a little addition to GRUB fixed this) Kubuntu has been amazing for me.
I have had the odd crash with Muon Software Centre, but aside from that it's been rock solid and fast. This is what I'm currently running with KDE 4.12 and Kernel 3.12.6.
I'll wait and see come April if I go with 14.04 or to another distro.

2. OpenSUSE 13.1: Before fixing my _Ubuntu boot issue, openSuse was going to be my distro of choice. I had no issues whatsoever. It was easy to use and I loved it. Having said that, I'm too use to using .deb's and apt-get.

3. SolydK: All the benefits of Debian with the ease of Mint. Has Mint update and software centre. I had two issues with this however. First was my scanner. Couldn't get it to work (only distro I had an issue with). Second was the clock. For whatever reason it would reset to the 24-hour clock and to another timezone after ever reboot.
I know someone else who tried this distro on their PC and didn't have those issues mind you.
SolydK is also a partial rolling release.

4. Korora 19 (Cinnamon): I only managed to try this on LiveUSB because it wouldn't install properly on my laptop (same with Fedora 19, Fedora 20 works just fine now). There was just something about the way the Korora Project did Cinnamon that I liked more than Mint's. I've been waiting for Korora 20 to come out to see if the install issue has been fixed.
I'd do a '4a' by saying Korora's KDE as well.

5. Manjaro KDE: This was the first distro I installed where everything was updated and worked right away....The big downfall personally is installing programs. I found it a complete pain to install things. I'm nowhere near being an advanced user, so I like the ease of .deb's/apt-get and even .rpms and software centres.

Other distros I installed: Mint 16 Cinnamon, KDE, XFCE, Ubuntu 13.10, Mageia, openMandrivia, Rosa, Elementary, CrunchBang,



ImpldConsent
Under Siege
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Mcdonough, GA
Reviews:
·AT&T U-Verse
·magicjack.com

1 recommendation

reply to ImpldConsent

...and in related news ... Valve announces over more than a dozen Linux-powered Steam gaming boxes - now THATS marketing and THATS fun. I've been playing/watching Valve since '98 and although it took them long enough for *nix support, they're embracing the crap out-it now.
--
That's "MISTER" Kafir to you Mr. Munafiq



Tirael
BOHICA
Premium
join:2009-03-18
Sacramento, CA
kudos:1
reply to konqZ

said by konqZ:

Although all Ubuntu Debian based distros

Fix'd. Also, try doing it with an Nvidia Optimus laptop in UEFI. The frustration level is annoying.
--
“Reality doesn't bite, rather our perception of reality bites.” - Anthony J. D'Angelo


paradigmfl

join:2005-07-16
Reviews:
·Bright House
reply to ImpldConsent

Arch Linux is a good one if you are a medium to advanced user. I highly recommend it to anyone who often feels that the way other distros do things tends to "get in their way" or make simple things more complex. Most things tend to be left more vanilla and the package manager (pacman) is very simple to use and CLI based.

Linux Mint is a good one for beginners and advanced users. It tends to "just work" and is what Ubuntu used to be in many ways before changing to unity among other things. Don't forget there is also a KDE version which exists although it's not often talked about. I've been using it on an older machine and I like it.



rexbinary
Mod King
Premium
join:2005-01-26
Plano, TX
Reviews:
·Verizon FiOS
reply to Tirael

said by Tirael:

said by konqZ:

Although all Ubuntu Debian based distros

Fix'd.

Ubuntu might be based on Debian, but Ubuntu != Debian.
--
Verizon FiOS subscriber since 2005 | Mac owner since 1990 | Fedora user since 2006 | CentOS user since 2007 | "Anyone who is unwilling to learn is entitled to absolutely nothing." - graysonf | EDIT: I seldom post without an edit.