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boognish
Premium
join:2001-09-26
Baton Rouge, LA
kudos:6

Phone systems and 911

To get out on our phone system you dial 9. We have a problem with people dialing 911. Actually it is only a couple of people that have the problem. The bosses have asked about changing the 9 to another number like 8 or making people have to dial 9911. I am wondering how others handle it and if there is any laws about 911 where we can't change it to 9911. Right now I have the phone system where it handles 911 and 9911.
--
don't get 2 close 2 my fantasy



LazMan
Premium
join:2003-03-26
canada

2 recommendations

I like both 911 and 9-911 to work, myself... Just makes it easier; when people panic or are under stress, you want it to be as simple as possible.

Most phone systems, you can change the prefix to dial an outside line (9 for a local outside line, 8 for an LD outside line are common, but really, can be anything...) - but not all. Older key systems, in particular, may be pretty picky about it.

I'd focus on user training, myself, if it's only one or two users that are having an issue... Changing the whole dialing scheme, just because a couple of duncans can't work a phone, seems extreme to me.



kontos
xyzzy

join:2001-10-04
West Henrietta, NY
reply to boognish

said by boognish:

phone system you dial 9. We have a problem with people dialing 911. Right now I have the phone system where it handles 911 and 9911

the works either way setup seems to be pretty typical. It's also pretty typical that you avoid using 11 as the start of any internal extensions and stuff.


boognish
Premium
join:2001-09-26
Baton Rouge, LA
kudos:6
reply to boognish

Some people can't be trained. I was looking through the phone logs and it looks like 911 was called about 100 times last year. Then some of them will hang up on the operator. That gets us a visit by the police here. They used to just call back, but something changed where now they come visit. Right now I have it where they have to dial 9911 and 911 doesn't work. I am not sure if that violates some sort of law though. I haven't found anything were it does. The 1 after the 9 isn't needed for long distance anyway, but I guess old habits are hard for some to break.
--
don't get 2 close 2 my fantasy



boognish
Premium
join:2001-09-26
Baton Rouge, LA
kudos:6

1 edit
reply to kontos

I don't have any internal extensions that have 11 in them. It comes from the user thinking they need to dial 91 for long distance and then hitting 1 again on accident.
--
don't get 2 close 2 my fantasy



The WeaseL
Premium
join:2001-12-03
Minnesota
reply to boognish

Even for 911 you have to dial 9 here. As far as I am aware we have not had many issues. But we are also a school and prevent most classroom phones from dialing long distance, so the number of people dialing 9 followed by a 1 are very small.
--
How lucky am I to have known someone who is so hard to say good-bye to.



DarkLogix
Texan and Proud
Premium
join:2008-10-23
Baytown, TX
kudos:3
reply to boognish

If its happening 100+ times a year I'd look into setting up a auto alert that would let you know when/who done it
--
semper idem
1KTzRMxN1a2ATrtAAvbmEnMBoY3E2kHtyv



liht
Acryllicht

join:2000-07-11
Paradise Valley, AZ

1 recommendation

reply to boognish

This happens *ALL* the time on the systems I put in, and it's one of the most common things they want fixed/changed. Usually we'll change the 9 dial out to an 8 if they REQUIRE that 911 be present. Otherwise, we'll take out the 911 and put 9911 and force people to remember to dial 9 first for EVERYTHING. But, sadly, you cannot fix stupid. We had a rudimentary way of alerting someone when a 911 code was dialed, but thankfully on R9 of the system (Avaya IP Office) they've put in Emergency Call Alerts that will send a trap, or email someone. Then we go bonk that person on the head when they mess it up.
--
werd



Nightfall
My Goal Is To Deny Yours
Premium,MVM
join:2001-08-03
Grand Rapids, MI
Reviews:
·ooma
·Comcast
·Callcentric
·Site5.com

1 recommendation

reply to LazMan

said by LazMan:

I like both 911 and 9-911 to work, myself... Just makes it easier; when people panic or are under stress, you want it to be as simple as possible.

We used 9-911 in our environment. Just make sure that you document and educate your employees on how to dial 911 in your environment if it is different than 911.
--
My domain - Nightfall.net

tomdlgns
Premium
join:2003-03-21
Chicago, IL
kudos:1
reply to boognish

we had that problem when we switched to a system and added the 9 to dial out option. the old system didnt have it, but all new offices did and we wanted to keep things uniform for everyone who travels from office to office.

it still happens from time to time, but we just made them aware that they need to pay more attention. in my environment, using 9 to dial out displays our main company number, 8 is reserved to display the DID number, for example, if i wanted to call someone and i wanted them to have my DID, i can use 8 when dialing out to display that on the caller id as opposed to the main company number.

my vote, user training (or re-train).


lorennerol
Premium
join:2003-10-29
Seattle, WA
reply to boognish

I've always been under the impression that both are required by law to work (911 and 9911). That said, this isn't a technology problem, any more than people mistyping their passwords is a technology problem (hey, just make it so that any password will work, eh?)



Nightfall
My Goal Is To Deny Yours
Premium,MVM
join:2001-08-03
Grand Rapids, MI
Reviews:
·ooma
·Comcast
·Callcentric
·Site5.com

said by lorennerol:

I've always been under the impression that both are required by law to work (911 and 9911). That said, this isn't a technology problem, any more than people mistyping their passwords is a technology problem (hey, just make it so that any password will work, eh?)

Actually, by law here in MI from my understanding is that 911 has to work. If its different, it has to be documented. Apparently, its a state or federal offense if someone can't pick up the phone and call 911. Now, if you educate the userbase that its 9911 that is sufficient as well. The key is documenting the change and training the users on it.
--
My domain - Nightfall.net


Bigzizzzle
Premium
join:2005-01-27
Franklin, TN
kudos:1

A simple label affixed to the phones!!!



exocet_cm
You see, but you do not observe
Premium
join:2003-03-23
New Orleans, LA
kudos:3
reply to boognish

8 dials internal.
9 dials outside.

Try this. Not sure about the "law" regarding 9-1-1 access. Never really thought about.
»www.nena.org/?FCC_911_Rules



boognish
Premium
join:2001-09-26
Baton Rouge, LA
kudos:6
reply to Nightfall

I just changed the emergency rules to only 9911 and removed 911 for now. I am having smarter people than me check the regulations about 911 vs 9911. Hopefully this will keep the police from showing up again.
--
don't get 2 close 2 my fantasy



exocet_cm
You see, but you do not observe
Premium
join:2003-03-23
New Orleans, LA
kudos:3

said by boognish:

I just changed the emergency rules to only 9911 and removed 911 for now. I am having smarter people than me check the regulations about 911 vs 9911. Hopefully this will keep the police from showing up again.

Not sure what changed in BR, but any time we get a 9-1-1 hangup we have to respond in person. Most of the time it is false alarms for us.
--
"All newspaper editorial writers ever do is come down from the hills after the battle is over and shoot the wounded." - Bruce Anderson
"I have often regretted my speech, never my silence." - Xenocrates
Check out my blog: »www.johndball.com


boognish
Premium
join:2001-09-26
Baton Rouge, LA
kudos:6

They used to call the receptionist back and that would be the end of it. The police officer that showed up today said they had to respond to the hang-ups now. I wasn't the one who talked to him so I don't really know what all was said or what reasoning was given. I was told to find out who dialed 911, how many times it happened in the last year, and who has done it. Then I was told to fix it. Changing from 9 to 8 would be a huge pain in the butt, because of the way the fax server is set up and a program that dispatches fax orders. From what I have read removing 911 and making people dial 9911 seems like a liability.
--
don't get 2 close 2 my fantasy



exocet_cm
You see, but you do not observe
Premium
join:2003-03-23
New Orleans, LA
kudos:3

1 recommendation

Do y'all have building security? I think federal law allows for redirecting to a security point in-house. Not sure about our wonderful state laws.

Edit: If you don't get an answer let me know and I'll ask our department's communications supervisor.


propcgamer

join:2001-10-10
011010101
reply to boognish

Holy cow, how many people are doing the 100 911 calls?
How many people are at the office?


AsherN
Premium
join:2010-08-23
Thornhill, ON
reply to boognish

said by boognish:

They used to call the receptionist back and that would be the end of it. The police officer that showed up today said they had to respond to the hang-ups now. I wasn't the one who talked to him so I don't really know what all was said or what reasoning was given. I was told to find out who dialed 911, how many times it happened in the last year, and who has done it. Then I was told to fix it. Changing from 9 to 8 would be a huge pain in the butt, because of the way the fax server is set up and a program that dispatches fax orders. From what I have read removing 911 and making people dial 9911 seems like a liability.

If changing the outbound digit from 9 to 8 is such a pain for a fax server, time to look at a different fax server. How much does your local PD charge for a false alarm?

As for sending a car on hangups, it's done because a call back is not definitive. Say the receptionist calls 911 and the bad guy has her hang up. The PD calls back and under duress she says "sorry, misdial". It's safer to send an officer to any 911 call.


OvrQualified
Slightly Ahead Of Time
Premium
join:2002-01-27
Winter Park, FL
reply to boognish

Most of my clients use 8 for their dial out prefix, and the call rules are set such that 911, 8911 or 9911 (just in case someone has an old habit) all work. No problems with false callouts since the dialing prefix is 8.
--
The enemy of my enemy is my WHAT?!



boogi man

join:2001-11-13
Jacksonville, FL
kudos:1
reply to exocet_cm

said by exocet_cm:

Do y'all have building security? I think federal law allows for redirecting to a security point in-house. Not sure about our wonderful state laws.

Edit: If you don't get an answer let me know and I'll ask our department's communications supervisor.

This. I think 911 may work? but we dial something else entirely and it goes to campus security, there are numerous emails sent out and it's brought up during annual safety training. 100/yr seems really really high.

F100

join:2013-01-15
Durham, NC
reply to boognish

Try having an area code that is 919, which is Raleigh/Durham NC area. Your nightmare times 2. The centrex lines on the University campus needed dialing 9+1+919+xxx-xxxx to dial long distance in this area code. Telecom finally changed outside line access number from 9 to 7 which helped. These were on centrex lines from AT&T.

They are transitioning all phone lines on campus to Verizon business VOIP (20,000 or so lines). The VOIP doesn't need a dial out prefix here. Just area code + number. Last 5 digits dials like an extension.

Now, 10 digit dialing is mandatory for this 919 area code because they added another area code as an overlay. City/County 911 centers are having fits because people miss dial more now with 10 digit dialing needed on every call.


JoelC707
Premium
join:2002-07-09
Lanett, AL
kudos:5

said by F100:

Try having an area code that is 919

You know, I could have sworn that there were no area codes/prefixes that started with 91* just to prevent that misdial. Of course given how many numbers are probably being added daily, and there's a finite number available so at some point they will have to use number combinations they didn't want to.

On the flip side, while trying to search to see if I could find information about the potential blocked area codes/prefixes, I did come across this interesting page: »www.911dispatch.com/911/911_misdials.html

F100

join:2013-01-15
Durham, NC

said by JoelC707:

On the flip side, while trying to search to see if I could find information about the potential blocked area codes/prefixes, I did come across this interesting page: »www.911dispatch.com/911/911_misdials.html

Nice link. The Aastra style desk phone for the digital centrex lines were touchy too. It was way too easy to hit number one twice after dialing 9 for outside line and 1 for long distance. Dialing long distance in the same area code doubled your chance of misdial. 9-1-919-number.

The 919 area code was implemented in 1954 and 911 didn't come about nationally until 1968. Guess you could blame the implementation of 911 for picking a number similar to ones already being used at the time.

cramer
Premium
join:2007-04-10
Raleigh, NC
kudos:8

Odd, I use Aastra phones almost everywhere, and I've never had that problem. If you don't program in such a crazy dialplan such that 9-1-1 is an immediate match, you can dial as few or many digits as you wish and have 5s (inter-digit timeout) to *abort*. In 40 years, I've never accidentally dialed 911.


viper3431

join:2003-04-21
STL, MO
Reviews:
·Charter
reply to boognish

Been there, done that. Changed the outbound prefix to 8 in our environment because people would dial 9 then 1 for LD and the 2nd digit one of our area codes is 1, so they would miss the first area code digit and hit 911 instead of 9+1(x1x). So today you can dial 911 or 8911. I think disallowing pure 911 would be asking for a lawsuit if a stranger or someone from the public needed a phone in an emergency and couldn't figure out how to dial out.

Placing a label on the phone will not prevent a lawsuit, plus you'll have to check the labels every so often to make sure they don't get peeled off. You can advocate for user training all day long but if I collapse on the floor I want ANYONE to pick up a phone and be able to hit 911 without fail.


PX Eliezer

join:2013-03-10
Outland
kudos:4
Reviews:
·callwithus
·Callcentric
reply to JoelC707

said by JoelC707:

You know, I could have sworn that there were no area codes/prefixes that started with 91* just to prevent that misdial.

There are [plenty] of them, including big one 917 in NYC.

The OP must work with a bunch of morons, I feel badly for him. You could understand confusion once in a while, but at his company it sounds like 2-3 times a week.

-----

910 NC
912 GA
913 KS
914 NY
915 TX
916 CA
917 NY
918 OK
919 NC

cramer
Premium
join:2007-04-10
Raleigh, NC
kudos:8

Indeed. I would think your PBX (voip?) could be setup to collect all digits before processing the number, and thus know when someone has misdialed a "911" number -- by the fact that it's 9-1-1-PLUS.


PX Eliezer

join:2013-03-10
Outland
kudos:4

Exactly. This problem has been going on for several decades, after all.