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Snakeoil
Ignore Button. The coward's feature.
Premium
join:2000-08-05
Mentor, OH
kudos:1

$288 in unpaid fees, homeowner association took her home

»news.msn.com/in-depth/dollar288-···id=fbmsn

quote:
For six years, Ingrid Boak, who travels a lot for work as a racehorse trainer, ignored mail from her homeowner association.

Boak, of Lexington, Kentucky, says the letters were requests for $48 in annual fees for upkeep of the tidy neighborhood of one-story brick homes. Because she didn't use the clubhouse or pool, or participate in social activities sponsored by the association, she didn't think she needed to pay. Last September, while she was away, a neighbor called to tell her about a handwritten sign tacked to her front door. It said her house had been sold.

Masterson Station Neighborhood Association had foreclosed on her $120,000 home because she had $288 in unpaid dues, according to the association's lawyer, Nathan Billings. Boak was sent nearly 30 notices before her property was foreclosed on, he said; the dues were mandatory association fees.

Yet another fine example of life in a HOA subdivision.
--
Is a person a failure for doing nothing? Or is he a failure for trying, and not succeeding at what he is attempting to do? What did you fail at today?.


DSL987

join:2000-03-22
Helotes, TX

1 recommendation

She's an idiot.



John Galt
Forward, March
Premium
join:2004-09-30
Happy Camp
kudos:8
reply to Snakeoil

Rules is rules, bitches.



Omega
Displaced Ohioan
Premium
join:2002-07-30
Somerset, NJ
reply to Snakeoil

When you buy a house in an HOA subdivision, you agree to the contract before you area allowed to purchase the house. I'm no fan of HOAs, but it wasn't like she was suckered into belonging to one.

Though I find it odd that they jumped immediately to foreclosure, you would think they would get a debt collection agency or something. Also, $48/year is super cheap.
--
What smells like blue?



Camelot One
Premium,MVM
join:2001-11-21
Greenwood, IN
kudos:2
reply to Snakeoil

said by Snakeoil:

Yet another fine example of life in a HOA subdivision.

Lets see:
said by Article :

1. For six years, Ingrid Boak, who travels a lot for work as a racehorse trainer, ignored mail from her homeowner association.
2. Boak was sent nearly 30 notices
3. Because she didn't use the clubhouse or pool, or participate in social activities sponsored by the association, she didn't think she needed to pay.

There are certainly some run-away HOAs out there, but in this case, the only person I see at fault is the (former) home owner. 6 years is a long time to go without paying dues, ignoring notices, and pretending the bill doesn't exist.


Snakeoil
Ignore Button. The coward's feature.
Premium
join:2000-08-05
Mentor, OH
kudos:1

I was in a rush posting the article and didn't finish my "train of thought".

I agree the HOA can't be faulted, as she signed legal documents that made her aware of the actions the HOA could take to recover any monies owed it.
So they had a legal right, just like any business.

The homeowner is the one at fault. But it is a tad "unethical" in my book, to seize a 100k or more property, then flip it. All to collect a debt that is under one thousand dollars. I'm sure after they pay the lawyers, sell the house, they will have turned a tidy profit.

Of course the article paints the HOA as the bad guy, when they were with in their rights. I would say they were more like a Scrooge, or an unsavory uncle, then a "bad" guy.
--
Is a person a failure for doing nothing? Or is he a failure for trying, and not succeeding at what he is attempting to do? What did you fail at today?.



Snakeoil
Ignore Button. The coward's feature.
Premium
join:2000-08-05
Mentor, OH
kudos:1
reply to Omega

But consider that it was a period of 6 years.

288 bucks is a low amount to risk a house on. It's obvious she could have afforded the 288, as she was current on all her other bills.

This might be one of those "There is more going on then what we know" type of stories. Maybe there were other issues that caused her not to pay her dues?
--
Is a person a failure for doing nothing? Or is he a failure for trying, and not succeeding at what he is attempting to do? What did you fail at today?.



Camelot One
Premium,MVM
join:2001-11-21
Greenwood, IN
kudos:2
reply to Snakeoil

said by Snakeoil:

I'm sure after they pay the lawyers, sell the house, they will have turned a tidy profit.

It doesn't work like that. When a creditor (the HOA in this case) forecloses on a property, the property is used toward the debt. Once the process starts, all legal fees, filing fees, etc become part of the debt. If the home sells at auction for less than what is owed then the home owner owes them the difference. (banks tend to just write off the difference though) If the home is sold over what is owed, the home owner gets the difference. So the HOA wouldn't just get to keep the remainder, though they might be able to turn a small profit by inflating or adding fees above their actual costs. (very popular option with banks)

The article makes a loose reference to the lady having lost $30k on the value due to the foreclosure process. Between fees and selling at auction, that sounds about right. The article also goes on to say that her credit is ruined because of this, which would indicate the HOA did try collections first.


BonezX
Basement Dweller
Premium
join:2004-04-13
Canada
kudos:1

the question is, how can an HOA have legal rights over your property(if they didn't it would be essentially theft), without the properties being classified as rentals ?

also, how can they bypass the entire legal system to take into it's possession the property of someone else.

something about them taking the house without taking her to court doesn't pass the smell test.



Camelot One
Premium,MVM
join:2001-11-21
Greenwood, IN
kudos:2

The HOA has legal rights to the property by way of the deed itself. Canada laws may be different, but here in the US they can and do have the power to force owners to comply with restrictions, pay dues, and foreclose on the property for non-payment. They didn't bypass the legal system, they used it.



BonezX
Basement Dweller
Premium
join:2004-04-13
Canada
kudos:1

But why can they foreclose on a property that is paid up other then the HOA fee, seems like a legal oversight where $280 in back fees can be used to remove you from a $120,000+ property and ruin your credit rating(because it shows up as a default on a mortgage). That's like saying rogers video can sell your house off to pay for late fees, as long as they put it in the contract.



Camelot One
Premium,MVM
join:2001-11-21
Greenwood, IN
kudos:2

It doesn't show up as a default on a mortgage. But as far as the foreclosure process, it is very similar to an unpaid mortgage. A debt is owed on the property, if the debt is not paid, the property can be sold to pay the debt.

This isn't the same as a contractor filing a lien for non-payment. The HOA has rights to the deed, recorded on the deed.



pb5k
Can't Triforce
Premium
join:2005-11-16
Glendale, AZ
Reviews:
·CenturyLink
reply to Snakeoil

I have a love/hate relationship with my HOA, and I don't use most of the amenities they offer, but I pay the fees, because I agreed to them when I signed. Overall the benefits at my HOA outweigh the downsides. Can't speak for all of them, I know plenty are expensive, corrupt and almost evil.

This just strikes me as an act of spite on her part. She just couldn't pony up 4 BUCKS A MONTH? If she didn't want to pay the dues, she should have purchased a non-HOA home.
--
"I'm just a human being trying to make it in a world that is very rapidly losing its understanding of being human." - John Trudell



BonezX
Basement Dweller
Premium
join:2004-04-13
Canada
kudos:1
reply to Camelot One

still seems kinda screwed up that a 3rd party can sell the property from underneath the owner without going through the same legal requirements that banks go through to foreclose on an unpaid property.



Camelot One
Premium,MVM
join:2001-11-21
Greenwood, IN
kudos:2

The HOA went through the same process as a bank would have. The home owner just ignored all of the notices to pay, notices to appear, etc.
For 6 years.


jeb9876

join:2010-03-28
Morrisville, PA
reply to Snakeoil

I despise HOAs and would never buy a house with one, but this woman is a moron.

She never bothered to talk to anyone, such as a neighbor, about the HOA. She just assumed things about the HOA that were not true.

Not only did she not bother to read any of the mail from the HOA for 6 years, she ignored multiple certified mail notices from the court.

Was someone from the HOA supposed to wrap a legal notice around a rock and throw it through her window?



Snakeoil
Ignore Button. The coward's feature.
Premium
join:2000-08-05
Mentor, OH
kudos:1
reply to BonezX

said by BonezX:

still seems kinda screwed up that a 3rd party can sell the property from underneath the owner without going through the same legal requirements that banks go through to foreclose on an unpaid property.

Which is why so many do their best to avoid HOAs.
Because they control everything about what you o outside your home.
Want to plant a veggie garden, not without approval.
Want to plant some roses, again, not without approval.
Want to put up a basketball hoop and play ball, need approval.
Want more then 2 cars, need approval.
Want to paint your home neon pink, need approval.
--
Is a person a failure for doing nothing? Or is he a failure for trying, and not succeeding at what he is attempting to do? What did you fail at today?.


Camelot One
Premium,MVM
join:2001-11-21
Greenwood, IN
kudos:2

That isnt true of all HOAs. My wife owned a home when we met, and the hoa required pictures and diagrams be submitted for approval before changing the color of flowers in the front yard. We later purchased a house in an HOA that simply had a no junk cars or run down houses type CCR. So it varies greatly from one to the next.



DannyZ
Gentoo Fanboy
Premium
join:2003-01-29
Erie, PA
reply to Snakeoil

There is a local HOA, Kelso Woods Assn., that allows junk cars in the front yard. In fact, I don't think they have very many rules at all. One person even has a metal shed in their front yard that is rusting bad and missing sections of the metal panels.
--
Out the 10BaseT, through the modem, down the co-ax, over the fiber, across the backhaul, past the edge router, off the network...nothing but net



DSL987

join:2000-03-22
Helotes, TX
reply to Snakeoil

Even though the woman is an idiot, and it definitely is her fault, I do have to wonder why no attempt was made to simply knock on her door and ask her why she wasn't making the payments before going to the expense of legal action.



DannyZ
Gentoo Fanboy
Premium
join:2003-01-29
Erie, PA

attorneys tend to discourage such things during ongoing legal proceedings.



Camelot One
Premium,MVM
join:2001-11-21
Greenwood, IN
kudos:2
reply to DSL987

The article states that she traveled a lot. They likely posted notices on the door.


dave
Premium,MVM
join:2000-05-04
not in ohio
kudos:8
reply to Snakeoil

Sounds good to me - I get freedom from having a godawful neon-pink building visible from my property.



MaxGrit
Premium
join:2013-11-16
United State
kudos:1
reply to Snakeoil

Sounds about right.


PX Eliezer
Morrow Project fan
Premium
join:2013-03-10
Outland
kudos:5
Reviews:
·Optimum Voice
·callwithus
·Callcentric
reply to Snakeoil

From the same article:

Boak isn't the only one who paid a price for ignoring her mail. For four years, Colorado's Woodmen Hills Filing Number 11 Design Review Council sent Christopher Wright notices for late payments that eventually reached $900, said the homeowner association's attorney, Jerry Orten. But Wright, who told southern Colorado NBC affiliate KOAA that he thought the notices were fines for keeping his kids' bikes outside, never responded.

I'm sorry. NO sympathy at all.

If you toss notices whether from the HOA, the public library, jury duty, whatever---NO sympathy for these idiots.

That particular guy thought he was just better than everyone else---both by ignoring notices, and by apparently ignoring the bike rules too!


r81984
Fair and Balanced
Premium
join:2001-11-14
Katy, TX
Reviews:
·row44

2 recommendations

reply to Snakeoil

Laws need to change. All an HOA should be allowed to do is place a lien on the house to be paid for any sale of the house to go through or to be paid with a court order to dock the owners paychecks or income.

Any HOA that forecloses is evil.
--
...brought to you by Carl's Jr.


BlueC

join:2009-11-26
Minneapolis, MN
kudos:1

said by r81984:

Laws need to change. All an HOA should be allowed to do is place a lien on the house to be paid for any sale of the house to go through or to be paid with a court order to dock the owners paychecks or income.

Any HOA that forecloses is evil.

So you're saying it should be proper for a homeowner in a condominium HOA, using the common area expenses, to ignore paying their dues and yet be protected against the HOA filing a foreclosure?

I guess you would have to take that same approach with the state, if a property owner refuses to pay property taxes (which essentially are collected for the same purpose, common area expense, or state-wide expense). States can essentially take your property in a similar manner that an HOA would, and logically they are for the same purpose. One is collecting dues to cover expense for a community, one is collecting property taxes to cover expense for a state/county/city. Yet currently both have somewhat equal power in the event those dues/taxes go unpaid.

What you propose would uniquely forfeit power from one of these entities, with no basis.


r81984
Fair and Balanced
Premium
join:2001-11-14
Katy, TX
Reviews:
·row44

You should not be allowed to take away someone's home for not paying HOA fees.
You should be allowed to get a court order to dock their income or to seize bank or retirement assets.
You should be allowed to place a lein on the house.

But to just sell someone's house why the are still living there while they are still faithfully paying their mortgage, taxes, or they fully own it is insane.
An HOA is a private business and their name is NOT on the mortgage or title. They should have no ownership rights to the property. They should have the same right to dock income and use liens just like any building contractor can do.

The problem is foreclosing on these people for very small sums of money many times with out any proof the homeowner knows it is happening. It is a joke.

There also needs to be a law that states if the homeowner fullfills all the HOA maintenance requirements on their own they dont have to pay into it.
I know people who live under HOAs that state if you build a fence the HOA will not cut the grass, but yet the HOA still collects the money to cut your grass when they wont do it. That should be illegal.
As long as the maintenance work is being done by the owner then they should not have to pay the HOA anything. Monopolies are never a good thing to force onto people.
Remember the HOA is a private profit making business, not a government agency.
--
...brought to you by Carl's Jr.


PX Eliezer
Morrow Project fan
Premium
join:2013-03-10
Outland
kudos:5
Reviews:
·Optimum Voice
·callwithus
·Callcentric

said by r81984:

An HOA is a private business and their name is NOT on the mortgage or title. They should have no ownership rights to the property. They should have the same right to dock income and use liens just like any building contractor can do....

....Remember the HOA is a private profit making business, not a government agency.

No, the HOA is a voluntary association to which all the residents belong. And they are not run for profit.

If the HOA board decides to hire various companies for snow, trash, roads, whatever, that does not change their status as not-for-profit voluntary membership associations.

No one forces you to buy property in a HOA community.

When you do buy property in an HOA community, you are making a contract either directly or as part of the deed (a "covenant").

And the US constitution prohibits states from interfering with existing contracts.
»en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contract_Clause

This is a separate issue from whether HOA in general are good or bad, or whether an individual HOA is wonderful or horrible. Nor does it negate the fact that many HOA boards became abusive.

But in these particular cases, where people ignored and scoffed at multiple notices over a period of several years. then the HOA actions were not wrong.

-----

These folks in Texas agree with your POV, that foreclosures are wrong, but even they agree that people must pay the dues they owe:
»www.texashoareform.org/Tips.html


r81984
Fair and Balanced
Premium
join:2001-11-14
Katy, TX
Reviews:
·row44

If you think the HOA is not a profit generating entity you are really wrong.
HOA are completely on an honor system so for large housing developments it means corruption and trouble.

Republicans are all about not making workers pay into Unions if they want to opt out. Why not apply this logic to other things like an HOA.
If the owner fulfills all the requirements for maintenance on their own then they should not have to pay the HOA 1 penny.

The only good HOAs I know are the ones that dont collect dues. An HOA does not need to collect dues to be successful. Once they start collecting money then the corruption starts.
Most HOAs are started by the builder of a development to profit from those moving in.

There are ways to get the money owed to an HOA without foreclosure. Foreclosure should not be an option.
--
...brought to you by Carl's Jr.