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wayner92

join:2006-01-17
Toronto, ON

Why is Rogers Ultimate Fibre "only" 350Mbps

For those with internet speeds of less than 50 Mbps this might seem like a silly question, but why is the Rogers Fibre service only 350 Mbps? Is this technical limitation or a marketing move? As a comparison -Google fiber is 1Gbps but Bell Fibre is only 175Mbps.

On the download speed the increase (vs Ultimate non-fibre at 250/20) from 250 to 350 is unlikely to be of much benefit unless you have some servers nearby with a big pipe. But I guess that also goes for the marginal utility of going from 250 to 1G, but at least you are getting a 400X change rather than 40%. If you are a big uploader it may be nice to go to 350 from 20, but how many people need that?

I recently upped my Rogers to the new Ultimate and web pages do load faster but some activities like FTP don't run any faster than they did in the past. The biggest benefit is the increased 1TB/month cap.


yyzlhr

join:2012-09-03
Scarborough, ON
kudos:2

The fibre service pure marketing. It's only available to two very small areas and you have to jump through hoops to get it. Just because you live in an eligible area, doesn't mean you can just pick up the phone and order the service.


wayner92

join:2006-01-17
Toronto, ON

So that would mean that you don't have saturation to the node because everyone in Forest Hill now has Ultimate Fiber and is running at full throttle so they couldn't offer a service as fast as 1 Gbps.



elwoodblues
Elwood Blues
Premium
join:2006-08-30
Somewhere in
kudos:2
reply to wayner92

Oh man, I could download the entire Internet every day at those speeds.


wayner92

join:2006-01-17
Toronto, ON
reply to wayner92

Google fiber is the service that I really envy - 1Gbps in both directions with no cap for US$85/month.



dillyhammer
START me up
Premium,MVM
join:2010-01-09
Scarborough, ON
kudos:10
Reviews:
·Start Communicat..

said by wayner92:

1Gbps in both directions with no cap for US$85/month.

Imagine all of North America hooked up to that.
Changes. Everything.

Mike
--
I've picked on Cogeco long enough. Who's next? Any volunteers?


TypeS

join:2012-12-17
London, ON
kudos:1
reply to wayner92

350Mbps is already a ridiculously fast speed, let alone 1Gbps.


wayner92

join:2006-01-17
Toronto, ON

Ridiculously fast compared to what? Not compared to the 250 Mbps Rogers Ultimate non-fibre, it is only 40% faster. Fibre can handle more speed than copper so why not use it?


yyzlhr

join:2012-09-03
Scarborough, ON
kudos:2

said by wayner92:

Ridiculously fast compared to what? Not compared to the 250 Mbps Rogers Ultimate non-fibre, it is only 40% faster. Fibre can handle more speed than copper so why not use it?

Because residential internet users cannot take advantage of such fast speeds. In addition, the fibre service is purely for marketing purposes only so they claim they offer the fastest residential internet service in Canada. Rogers is not serious about this offering.


MyrddinEmrys

join:2011-11-29
Scarborough, ON
reply to wayner92

"Competion" and monetization. I wonder where this "free market" they keep talking about?



Zac
Premium
join:2001-09-12
Calgary, AB
Reviews:
·TELUS
reply to wayner92

said by wayner92:

For those with internet speeds of less than 50 Mbps this might seem like a silly question, but why is the Rogers Fibre service only 350 Mbps? Is this technical limitation or a marketing move? As a comparison -Google fiber is 1Gbps but Bell Fibre is only 175Mbps.

Keep in mind Bell markets it as Bell Fibe, not Bell Fibre, its just a play on words to make people think that everyone has fibre optics installed to their house (when in reality its only to the nodes) so technically everyone is on Fibre at some point in the connection, other than the few lucky ones that actually do have a Fibre connection right to the house.
--
~There is no Normal or Abnormal... Just Diversity.
Member of Team Helix - Join Us?

34764170

join:2007-09-06
Etobicoke, ON
reply to wayner92

said by wayner92:

Ridiculously fast compared to what? Not compared to the 250 Mbps Rogers Ultimate non-fibre, it is only 40% faster. Fibre can handle more speed than copper so why not use it?

Compared to the connection speeds that most customers have. What good is "using" that speed if Rogers is just going to stick you with a 300GB cap? It is useless. On top of it even if you had multiple systems on said connection downloading all at once you would be hard pressed to come even close to fully utilizing the connection at that speed.

34764170

join:2007-09-06
Etobicoke, ON
reply to wayner92

said by wayner92:

If you are a big uploader it may be nice to go to 350 from 20, but how many people need that?

A lot more people than whom would have any real benefit from such a high speed connection for downloading.

wayner92

join:2006-01-17
Toronto, ON

Well the limit for fibre is 3TB/month and for Ultimate 250 it is 1TB/month so at least they have gotten more reasonable on the data caps.

Why do you say more people would benefit from 350Mbps up?


34764170

join:2007-09-06
Etobicoke, ON

said by wayner92:

Why do you say more people would benefit from 350Mbps up?

Because upload speeds even on the highest tier are still quite slow. This is common sense.


TypeS

join:2012-12-17
London, ON
kudos:1
Reviews:
·TekSavvy Cable
reply to wayner92

said by wayner92:

Ridiculously fast compared to what? Not compared to the 250 Mbps Rogers Ultimate non-fibre, it is only 40% faster. Fibre can handle more speed than copper so why not use it?

Your statement is silly, you're comparing the same tier against itself. I mean in respect the average connection in use and what the average person uses the internet for.

Just because you want 1Gbps doesn't mean the market is demanding it.

Also, until Google at least wires up an entire state (urban centers of a state at least), their 1Gbps Kansas City only project doesn't meant much.

wayner92

join:2006-01-17
Toronto, ON

Wouldn't everyone want 1Gbps service? My point is this - fibre is capable of substantially higher speeds than coax. Why doesn't Rogers differentiate their fibre service by offering substantially faster service on fibre compared to copper?

You are saying I am comparing their same tier against itself - I don't consider Ultimate Fiber to be the same as Ultimate coax. They have difference speeds, caps, price, etc - they just happen to both be called Ultimate.


yyzlhr

join:2012-09-03
Scarborough, ON
kudos:2

A lot of technologies are capable of a lot more, but it doesn't mean it makes sense to offer it. Rogers could push close to 1Gbps right now over coax with the same equipment that you're using with the 250/20 service, but it doesn't mean it makes sense for them to do it.


wayner92

join:2006-01-17
Toronto, ON

Perhaps that is true. Arguably I didn't need the faster download speed frm 150 to 250 but I did need the larger cap as I was regularly paying overages with the 250 cap mainly due to streaming Netflix and Amazon video. That will only get worse once 4K streaming starts.


34764170

join:2007-09-06
Etobicoke, ON
reply to yyzlhr

said by yyzlhr:

Rogers could push close to 1Gbps right now over coax with the same equipment that you're using with the 250/20 service, but it doesn't mean it makes sense for them to do it.

Having one person per node receive such service IMO is useless. Having 250 being available widespread would be a lot more useful and they still need to do a fair amount of upgrading to make that a possibility.

34764170

join:2007-09-06
Etobicoke, ON
reply to wayner92

said by wayner92:

Wouldn't everyone want 1Gbps service?

No, not really. I'd rather have 250 or 500 Mbps service without a cap. If I had a 1Gbps connection I would also expect at least a 60TB cap. Even as someone who downloads a fair bit I know I'd literally never use all of a 1Gbps connection even if I had all of my systems trying to download at once so what is the point? Its just to appease customers stuck on that particular number for no good reason.

zamarac

join:2008-11-29
reply to 34764170

What would be a reasonable for consumers usage cap to complement 250/20? How such "reasonable" cap is determined by Rogers depending on a plan speed?



HiVolt
Premium
join:2000-12-28
Toronto, ON
kudos:21
reply to wayner92

Because they can upgrade the speeds over the next couple years to 500, 700, 900, 1gbps without doing much else, and charge a premium every time for "new technology".
--


wayner92

join:2006-01-17
Toronto, ON

I rarely say this, but I am somewhat impressed as they didn't charge a premium this time for the new technology as they didn't up the price compared to their 150/10 250 Mbps service and you are getting approximately twice the speed and four times the data.


wayner92

join:2006-01-17
Toronto, ON
reply to zamarac

What is a reasonable cap? By my calculation you can run Extreme Plus, Extreme and Express full out for about 7.1-7.6 hours before you hit your cap.

With Old Ultimate you only had 3.7 hours. With New Ultimate you have about 7.9 hours.


34764170

join:2007-09-06
Etobicoke, ON
reply to zamarac

said by zamarac:

What would be a reasonable for consumers usage cap to complement 250/20? How such "reasonable" cap is determined by Rogers depending on a plan speed?

at least 15TB. I consider 20% of the connections potential over the month as reasonable.

34764170

join:2007-09-06
Etobicoke, ON
reply to wayner92

said by wayner92:

I rarely say this, but I am somewhat impressed as they didn't charge a premium this time for the new technology as they didn't up the price compared to their 150/10 250 Mbps service and you are getting approximately twice the speed and four times the data.

They adjust the rates after the bump.. just wait a few months.

34764170

join:2007-09-06
Etobicoke, ON
reply to HiVolt

said by HiVolt:

Because they can upgrade the speeds over the next couple years to 500, 700, 900, 1gbps without doing much else, and charge a premium every time for "new technology".

Depends on whose definition of "without doing much else". Doing node splits isn't my idea of not doing much never mind the channel additions and other cable plant adjustments to deal with that.

zamarac

join:2008-11-29

1 edit
reply to wayner92

said by wayner92:

you can run Extreme Plus, Extreme and Express full out for about 7.1-7.6 hours before you hit your cap.

Don't you think, it translates to "speed really doesn't matter" on Rogers capped plans? Why would one be willing to pay for "theoretically" increased speed, when it doesn't translate into a different consumption experience? Internet is now just another utility, pay must be proportional to consumption, meaning new level of HD & 4K experience. For daily browsing the speed is long sufficient. Then what these speed & rate hikes are for?

Sorry to say, but the impression is the customers are considered incredibly stupid. Given the fact they buy into these speed plans - are they?

wayner92

join:2006-01-17
Toronto, ON

Are you saying that it isn't worth getting faster speeds because you don't get more data? Extreme plus is 45/4 150GB and Ultimate is 250/20 1TB. You don't think that isn't a different consumption experience?

Sure I think the caps are stupid but I think the higher data caps are more important than the faster speeds in the higher end Rogers plans. My average consumption is 300GB/month. The old Ultimate cap of 250GB was a problem, the new cap of 1TB isn't.

I can't believe I am defending Rogers.