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shrugs

@videotron.ca

Canada Versus the US in Airport Security

Guy tries to get a bomb on a plane in Canada.

Authorities confiscate it. They tell the guy that is a no-no and thank him for not putting up a fuss.

The guy thanks them for their patience and he is allowed to board the plane for his planned trip. They only arrest him upon his return.

Polite or what?

Man found with pipe bomb still allowed to board plane in Edmonton
»www.ctvnews.ca/canada/man-found-···.1639741

How would have this played out in the states?


Plus One

@comcast.net
said by shrugs :

Guy tries to get a bomb on a plane in Canada.

Authorities confiscate it. They tell the guy that is a no-no and thank him for not putting up a fuss.

The guy thanks them for their patience and he is allowed to board the plane for his planned trip. They only arrest him upon his return.

Polite or what?

Man found with pipe bomb still allowed to board plane in Edmonton
»www.ctvnews.ca/canada/man-found-···.1639741

How would have this played out in the states?

That is insane. In the US he would have immediately been thrown to the ground; handcuffed; and taken off to a Federal lockup awaiting a visit in front of a judge to see if he would even get bail.


XoX

join:2003-08-19
Qc, Canada

1 edit
reply to shrugs
in the state if he twitched a bit... Coops would have shoot him 100 times and killed him plus everyone around him...


loosedobbs

join:2006-06-13
Toronto
reply to shrugs
said by shrugs :

Polite or what?

...

NO way.
Canadian attitude is not about being polite. But never take responsibility or decisions. as said in article.
Now imagine the name is not Skylar Murphy but Mohammad.

" One security expert, Andre Gerolymatos of Simon Fraser University, said it appears that "everyone is dodging the bullet" in this case.

"No one wants to take responsibility for what is obviously a series of mistakes."

PX Eliezer
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reply to shrugs
said by shrugs :

How would have this played out in the states?

We in the US surely make many, many mistakes....

Having said that, I just don't think that THIS would have happened in this day and age!

The TSA agents would immediately have contacted the police agency having jurisdiction over the airport, and Federal agencies (probably both FBI and ATF) would have been brought in as well....!


g121
MrGee

join:2004-05-28
Toronto
reply to shrugs

i'm stunned .. unbelievable ..


loosedobbs

join:2006-06-13
Toronto
reply to shrugs
All those CATSA agents involved should be fired.

jaberi

join:2010-08-13
said by loosedobbs:

All those CATSA agents involved should be fired.

fired for letting him fly, or that they reported the incident to the RCMP 4 days later?.........seems like the inmates are running the asylum, security auctioned off to the lowest bidder.


Ian
Premium
join:2002-06-18
ON
kudos:3
said by jaberi:

fired for letting him fly, or that they reported the incident to the RCMP 4 days later?...

Pick one. I also think they should be charged with felony criminal negligence themselves.


cc4V

@teksavvy.com
reply to Plus One
said by Plus One :

That is insane. In the US he would have immediately been thrown to the ground; handcuffed; and taken off to a Federal lockup awaiting a visit in front of a judge to see if he would even get bail.

It's funny that you think he would ever be brought before a judge... the constitution apparently doesn't apply to terrorists, remember? He would be locked up, no trial, no bail, access to a lawyer or any other rights would be completely at the whim of the government.


corster
Premium
join:2002-02-23
Gatineau, QC
reply to shrugs
What the hell? There's no shortage of police officers at an airport. Hell, 9/10 times there's one standing within visual sight of a security checkpoint.

CATSA is a joke.


mk1_416

@start.ca
I have seen a guy trying to board a plane with large mortar fireworks and they were seized, the person was cautioned but not charged at the time. Not sure what happened after he got back.

Neither the RCMP or the court documents state it was a pipe bomb, only that it resembled one. The charge wouldn't have been "possession of an explosive substance" if an actual "device" was found.


Thane_Bitter
Inquire within
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reply to shrugs

Scene at Canadian Airport Gift Shop
Clerk "anything else sir?"
Bomber "Time, Newsweek, the Lifesavers, and the second time bomb from the right."

(shameless stolen from Airplane 2!)

Heads shouldn't roll over this one, they should be crushed, all the involved persons should be fired, tarred and feathered.

PX Eliezer
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said by Thane_Bitter:

Heads shouldn't roll over this one, they should be crushed, all the involved persons should be fired, tarred and feathered.

And after that, they should be made to carry packages to Fort Mac for Canada Post.


Anav
Sarcastic Llama? Naw, Just Acerbic
Premium
join:2001-07-16
Dartmouth, NS
kudos:5
reply to shrugs
Meanwhile as the facts are being ascertained.......... Fact, In Wichita Kansas its legal to carry unconcealed weapons and concealed weapons in public spaces.

Councillors wanted OUT of this state driven wild west philosophy but were faced with a staggering bill, in that to be able to proceed with a BAN on concealed guns in public buildings, they had to have a security guard and metal detectors in all 111 buildings, let alone provide the gun storage lockers that would be needed to house weapons prior to entry.

By public buildings, I mean, hospitals, civic buildings, courts, libraries and schools etc....

The rationale by the State for the requirement was to level the playing field. The city of Wichita had to be able to provide without error, to all those entering public buildings, that no one was packing. It would be no fair that some people may not adhere to the rule while others had expectations of a gun free zone. Much better all to have and to expect everyone is packing.

Fact the number of concealed gun licenses in 2013 were double that for the previous year.

I
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shrugs

@videotron.ca
reply to XoX
said by XoX:

in the state if he twitched a bit... Coops would have shoot him 100 times and killed him plus everyone around him...

»www.youtube.com/watch?v=aqCfVVkT2KI
Possible. In the video above, American airport security tazered him 9 times then arrested that person and gave him life in prison w/o the possibility of parole for releasing a noxious substance.

I like our way better

PX Eliezer
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said by shrugs :

said by XoX:

in the state if he twitched a bit... Coops would have shoot him 100 times and killed him plus everyone around him...

In the video above, American airport security tazered him 9 times then arrested that person and gave him life in prison w/o the possibility of parole for releasing a noxious substance.

I like our way better

Oh, fer sure.

Taser video shows RCMP shocked immigrant within 25 seconds of their arrival

»www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-c···1.652207

Glass houses, eh?


shrugs

@videotron.ca
reply to shrugs
News just came out that airport security gave the pipe-bomb back to the kid, »www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmonton/···.2497650. So now I have to re-write my us-versus-them story.

Guy tries to get a bomb on a plane in Canada.

Authorities confiscate it. They tell the guy that is a no-no and thank him for not putting up a fuss.

Authorities then hand the bomb back to him after their stern warning not to use it on the plane.

The guy thanks them for their patience, but insists that they keep it so that they can arrest him after his trip.

Authorities thank the guy and keep it for later processing.

The guy is allowed to board the plane for his planned trip. They only arrest him upon his return.

Polite or what?


loosedobbs

join:2006-06-13
Toronto
reply to shrugs
Heard some analyst saying this. It is illegal/criminal to talk about Bomb at the airport, carry knife and other items. But OK if you are carrying actual bomb /materials.


shrugs

@videotron.ca
Not like he knew he had it.
It's a kid.
Kids play with this stuff and make this stuff all the time.
He forgot about it. Didn't even know it was there.
Even the court sentence was a little harsh for what it was, but i guess fitting considering where it was nabbed at. Kid will learn not to forget again.

In the states, this kids life would have likely have been ruined and very likely tossed in jail (after a big dramatic take-down with an airport lock-down, that would have played on CNN for 2 weeks straight).

technocar2

join:2009-05-29
Brampton, ON
kudos:2
said by shrugs :

In the states, this kids life would have likely have been ruined and very likely tossed in jail (after a big dramatic take-down with an airport lock-down, that would have played on CNN for 2 weeks straight).

The same would happen here if he was Muslim.

But whats more disturbing is that apparently the pipe bomb was given back to the kid and be allowed to board the plane with the device. It wasn't until the kid himself insisted that they security keep the device and then it was seized.

So basically they found the bomb; told the kid to keep it with him and board the airplane, the kid told them "no" you keep it, so they took it upon themselves to "seize" it only after the kid refused to take it WOW... That's Canada for you eh?


Gone
Premium
join:2011-01-24
Fort Erie, ON
kudos:4

1 recommendation

said by technocar2:

The same would happen here if he was Muslim.

... or a Polish immigrant.



sm5w2
Premium
join:2004-10-13
St Thomas, ON

1 recommendation

reply to shrugs
There are two ideas or concepts to this story that are going right over people's heads:

1) Airport security is and always has been an awkward task for people to perform. Imaging a firefighter that never encounters a real fire. Imagine a cop that never performs a single arrest or writes a single ticket. Yet thousands of airport security people around the world will work through their entire career and never encounter a real terrorist.

2) People only become good at something if they actually perform all aspects or steps routinely. Airport screeners are good at finding nail clippers and bottles of water. But because they never encounter "real" terrorists or real objects of terror, we can see that the "system" they work under is not equipped or has never really anticipated what to do when a "real" terrorist or dangerous object is detected. This is because this security is just theater.

Think about it. Why aren't security screeners protected by bomb-proof and bullet-proof clothing? Why aren't people caught with nail clippers, scissors or bottles of water detained and interrogated? If we know the nail clipper or bottle of water is harmless, then why are they confiscated? If we confiscate simple objects because we don't trust the people carrying them, then why do we allow those same people to continue on and board those planes?

I was listening to a CBC radio interview today about this incident. An Israeli airport security expert was being interviewed. He noted that given their security system, travelers are allowed to carry up to 5 bottles of wine with them on a plane. Don't we all wish for the days when we could carry that bottle of duty free with us in our carry-on on connecting flights?

In the end, what CATSA did was rational. They allowed a NON-TERRORIST to board a plane - regardless what he was consciously or unconsciously carrying with him. It's too bad we don't seem to be striving for that simple objective, and return air travel to an exercise of rationality and liberty.


Ian
Premium
join:2002-06-18
ON
kudos:3
said by sm5w2:

I was listening to a CBC radio interview today about this incident. An Israeli airport security expert was being interviewed.

The Israelis take airport security seriously. We don't here in North America. What we have is window-dressing.
--
“Any claim that the root of a problem is simple should be treated the same as a claim that the root of a problem is Bigfoot. Simplicity and Bigfoot are found in the real world with about the same frequency.” – David Wong

mr weather
Premium
join:2002-02-27
Mississauga, ON
Because the Israelis do something that is verboten by the PC crowd around here.
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"It's all coming down!!" - Mike Holmes


sm5w2
Premium
join:2004-10-13
St Thomas, ON
reply to shrugs
It's a red herring to refer to the screening methods used in Israeli airports. It's been explained time and time again that the LOW VOLUME of passenger traffic they have is what enables them to screen the passengers more than the luggage they carry. The methods used by Israel can't be scaled up to be deployed in American or Canadian airports - unless we're all willing to pay twice the price for tickets than we are now.

The best (and really, the only necessary) security measure to prevent the next 9/11-style event went into operation on 9/12/2001. That being the idea that passengers can and will take active, physical measures against would-be terrorists. Prior to 9/11, that was unheard of.

The only better measure that really should have been in place 5 years prior to 9/11 was a change to the pre-flight safety announcement heard by all passengers. That announcement should have included a statement saying that the crew would enlist passenger aid to disarm or disable anyone threatening the safety and security of the plane.

If such a statement did become part of the standard pre-flight announcement in the years leading up to 9/11, it's likely it would have spooked the planners of the hijacking into perhaps not even attempting it.


Ian
Premium
join:2002-06-18
ON
kudos:3
said by sm5w2:

It's a red herring to refer to the screening methods used in Israeli airports. It's been explained time and time again that the LOW VOLUME of passenger traffic they have is what enables them to screen the passengers more than the luggage they carry. The methods used by Israel can't be scaled up to be deployed in American or Canadian airports - unless we're all willing to pay twice the price for tickets than we are now.

?? Ben Gurion airport in Tel Aviv handles over 13 million passengers per year. Edmonton airport (where this happened) handles 6.7 million per year.

Now, I will agree that the cost to do so may be too high for consumers. But we should stop fooling ourselves that we have decent security as it is.
--
“Any claim that the root of a problem is simple should be treated the same as a claim that the root of a problem is Bigfoot. Simplicity and Bigfoot are found in the real world with about the same frequency.” – David Wong


milnoc

join:2001-03-05
H3B
kudos:2
Israeli security uses behavioural profiling to spot potential trouble. The behaviour of people who are planning to commit an act of terror changes in a very specific way. Israeli security is trained to spot these differences in a crowd, even bringing them up to the surface by very casual conversations with individuals.

It's an excellent screening process, one I wish would be adopted in North America.


sm5w2
Premium
join:2004-10-13
St Thomas, ON
reply to Ian
> Ben Gurion airport in Tel Aviv handles over 13 million
> passengers per year. Edmonton airport (where this
> happened) handles 6.7 million per year.

-----------
»data.worldbank.org/indicator/IS.AIR.PSGR

Air transport, passengers carried

Air passengers carried include both domestic and international aircraft passengers of air carriers registered in the country.

Israel 5,335,374 (2012)
Canada 73,573,762
United States 736,617,000
------------

Who's numbers are we going to believe?


sm5w2
Premium
join:2004-10-13
St Thomas, ON
reply to milnoc
> Israeli security uses behavioural profiling to spot potential trouble.

Israel will also board passengers on a plane, let it depart the gate and let it sit somewhere on the tarmac for 45 minutes - in case there is a bomb onboard it will at least blow up while not in flight.