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BosstonesOwn

join:2002-12-15
Wakefield, MA
Reviews:
·Verizon FiOS

[Staff] RANT: WTF with headhunters and the belief of some of these....

companies.

I get an email from a headhunter.. who I have helped in the past. Obviously names removed.

Hi ************************

I have a great opportunity for a JR Linux Admin(50k-80k) for a manager I just place *********************

Reporting to the Manager of IT Operations, this person will bring prior success performing systems administration of large commercial SAAS applications.

Requirements:

· 2- 5 years of systems administration experience
· Hands on experience with various distros of Linux.
· System administration skills, including various scripting languages (some or all of the following: bash/shell, sed/awk, perl, python)
· Hands on experience with VMWare and XEN.
· Systems administration of publicly facing Internet systems
· Experience with centralized authentication systems (Active Directory, LDAP, Shibboleth, CAS, etc.)
· Hands on experience with popular common packages, such as Apache, Postfix, bind, Tomcat, Puppet, Nagios.
· Hands on experience configuring and tweaking hardware load balancers.
· Extensive networking experiences including VLANs; Firewalls.
· Experience administering systems running MySQL with replication

Responsibilities:

Server selection & provisioning including application software
Storage management
Performance tuning
Tier 3 troubleshooting of Linux/Solaris systems, Network connectivity, database connectivity
Backup and Recovery
OS upgrades and security patching
Change control compliance
Rotating 7x24 on call.
Supporting internal customers as well as assisting Services team with external customers.

Best regards,
******************************************************************

First of all on so many levels this is not a junior role.

I told him kindly I'll send it to a couple folks I know looking, but these companies thing they can steal talent at this point. I don't know anyone that makes 80 K that knows all this. I see mid level guys making 90 to 100 right now. And the fact that they are letting jr folks run an internet facing host is very scary to me. Im hoping there is at least security scans and a Sr. checking up on the internet facing hosts.

I politely told them maybe to look for a transplant from a cheaper region to the mass area or go like every other company and look for an h1b visa candidate. I don't know any jr that even looked at that and said they would take it.

I guess if they are getting paid low at another slot maybe they would take it ? I honestly laughed and just responded and moved on. Any one interested let me know Ill gladly forward you over the contact info.
--
"It's always funny until someone gets hurt......and then it's absolutely friggin' hysterical!"



donoreo
Premium
join:2002-05-30
North York, ON

That list is embellished. Often the head hunter will know what the real requirements are. It also scares off those that are no where near qualified.

I do find the salary range of 50 - 80 rather broad.



Clever_Proxy
Premium
join:2004-05-14
Villa Park, IL

It means a salary of $50k.


BosstonesOwn

join:2002-12-15
Wakefield, MA

Bingo... 80 K being unattainable to most.


BosstonesOwn

join:2002-12-15
Wakefield, MA
reply to donoreo

I dunno if its embellished I asked for a true list, and thats what he said they gave him. Kinda Scary..
--
"It's always funny until someone gets hurt......and then it's absolutely friggin' hysterical!"



exocet_cm
Free at last, free at last
Premium
join:2003-03-23
New Orleans, LA
kudos:3
reply to BosstonesOwn

The HR rep that typed the list had no idea why they are asking?



donoreo
Premium
join:2002-05-30
North York, ON
reply to BosstonesOwn

I would say they are not really looking for a junior person.


IamGimli

join:2004-02-28
Canada
kudos:2
reply to BosstonesOwn

JR and "extensive experience" in anything is an oxymoron. If they have extensive experience in anything they're not JR anymore, unless they're complete morons, which I doubt is what they're looking for.



Nightfall
My Goal Is To Deny Yours
Premium,MVM
join:2001-08-03
Grand Rapids, MI
Reviews:
·ooma
·Comcast
·Callcentric
·Site5.com
reply to BosstonesOwn

said by Clever_Proxy:

It means a salary of $50k.

said by BosstonesOwn:

Bingo... 80 K being unattainable to most.

It all depends on the area. In my area, 80K is the salary for mid level. I do agree with others that this sounds like someone from HR gave out that list.
--
My domain - Nightfall.net

BosstonesOwn

join:2002-12-15
Wakefield, MA

Wouldn't doubt it at this point... either that or the guy that he placed is incompetent.



Kilroy
Premium,MVM
join:2002-11-21
Saint Paul, MN
reply to BosstonesOwn

I follow Liz Ryan CEO of Human Workplace on LinkedIn, the only person I follow as her postings are really worth the time. I highly recommend her.

That said she recently had a posting about what people are looking for and why positions are so hard to fill. They are looking for unicorns. One example she gave is if you're looking for a nanny you don't advertise for a person with extensive experience on the Wonder Stroller 8000. Job postings have software and devices that you can train people to use, not the actual skills you want.

I agree, someone with all of the requested experience isn't going to be willing to accept 80k.
--
"Progress isn't made by early risers. It's made by lazy men trying to find easier ways to do something." - Robert A. Heinlein



donoreo
Premium
join:2002-05-30
North York, ON

They are also often looking for the "Walk on Water" candidate. They toss in a lot of "it would be nice if they had this" items but really they NEED a lot less.


Joe12345678

join:2003-07-22
Des Plaines, IL
reply to BosstonesOwn

some headhunters / staffing firms some times have no idea.

also there are some job posting that are very basic and make you think as for what they are even looking for.


Oedipus

join:2005-05-09
kudos:1
reply to BosstonesOwn

Extensive skills involving miracles is highly desirable. Ability to turn water into wine (or beer) is a plus.



Nightfall
My Goal Is To Deny Yours
Premium,MVM
join:2001-08-03
Grand Rapids, MI
reply to Kilroy

Kilroy, thanks for pointing me out to Liz Ryan. Great articles!



Clever_Proxy
Premium
join:2004-05-14
Villa Park, IL

4 recommendations

reply to BosstonesOwn


BosstonesOwn

join:2002-12-15
Wakefield, MA
reply to Nightfall

im following now as well. I gotta read them now thanks !


BosstonesOwn

join:2002-12-15
Wakefield, MA
reply to Clever_Proxy

Damn man, my eye glass case is full of water now... at least I didn't nuke my laptop ! Shit that is awesome !
--
"It's always funny until someone gets hurt......and then it's absolutely friggin' hysterical!"



CGMason14
Nj Roaddog

join:2002-07-22
Mountainside, NJ
reply to donoreo

said by donoreo:

They are also often looking for the "Walk on Water" candidate. They toss in a lot of "it would be nice if they had this" items but really they NEED a lot less.

That or the posting is to fulfill an important requirement of the H1-B visa process. Businesses seeking the visas have to advertise the job opening and determine that there are no qualified candidates in the USA to fill the position. An easy way to do this while guaranteeing the position won't be filled is to try and find someone that can walk on water.

Even if someone applied for these job listings, nobody will actually get the job. They are setup to fail by the company's HR department before they even walked in the door for an interview.

dave
Premium,MVM
join:2000-05-04
not in ohio
kudos:8
Reviews:
·Verizon FiOS

You can tell a 'visa job advert' by the fact that it asks you to 'reference case NNN when replying', as well as the highly-specific description of required skills and experience.

At least, you could when this was all conducted with adverts in newspapers. But why would someone engage a headhunter to fill a position they didn't really want to fill? Is that now a necessary part of the pretense?

I believe the hiring company has to provide evidence (to the government) as to why none of the applicants were suitable so everyone who applies results in documentation work for someone


scross

join:2002-09-13
Cordova, TN
reply to CGMason14

said by CGMason14:

That or the posting is to fulfill an important requirement of the H1-B visa process.

Not surprisingly, a lot of the "visa process" thing has turned out to be "visa fraud", which the government has finally started waking up to.


howardfine

join:2002-08-09
Saint Louis, MO
reply to BosstonesOwn

Replying to headhunters is always a waste of time and always has been. Most of their postings are copied from the company that hired them or cobbled together from pieces. Depending on the company, many of them don't have a clue what they're posting about and will only ask you about keywords they see in the listing.

In 40 years, as an electronic engineer and then software engineer, I've been contacted a multitude of times by them and gone on some interviews and have never been hired by anyone. I always have success looking through the want ads or contacting companies on my own (till I started my own business that is).

One emailed me this morning. I just don't reply or bother with these people anymore.



donoreo
Premium
join:2002-05-30
North York, ON

I always reply. I also always point point out when they are wrong contacting me. Especially annoying are ones from the US (I am in Canada). In general, Canadians do not move for jobs like, generally, Americans do. Myself, I will not consider a job that is even on the other side of the city.



donoreo
Premium
join:2002-05-30
North York, ON
reply to BosstonesOwn

I may not reply to one I just got. He has a hotmail email address!


BosstonesOwn

join:2002-12-15
Wakefield, MA
Reviews:
·Verizon FiOS

I get 4 to 8 a day... not a one wants to offer perm slots with health care... pretty awkward how this is starting to come around to everyone being a contractor.
--
"It's always funny until someone gets hurt......and then it's absolutely friggin' hysterical!"


scross

join:2002-09-13
Cordova, TN

1 edit

I'm once again a contractor (self-employed at the moment), and over the several decades of my career I have usually enjoyed playing that role. I don't recall ever not eventually being offered a perm slot out of these engagements, though - a sort of try-before-you-buy approach, on both sides. One such offer I took and loved it for several years (great place, great people), but after a change of ownership and then upper management, many of these great people started leaving so things started going downhill fast. Today the place is a shell of its former self and in dire straits financially - which is the kind of thing that happens when great people get unhappy and leave (or you force them out), so then they go to work for your competitors. And if they have non-compete agreements or whatever, guess what? Often they can just work there as contractors (non-employees), at least until these non-compete agreements expire.


scross

join:2002-09-13
Cordova, TN

1 edit
reply to BosstonesOwn

said by BosstonesOwn:

I get 4 to 8 a day

So what particular skill sets are in demand in your area at the moment that generates this level of daily calls?

BosstonesOwn

join:2002-12-15
Wakefield, MA
Reviews:
·Verizon FiOS

Solaris/AIX/HP-UX/Linux with a Security background and Windows Admin security skills.

Security specialists on many platforms are just way in demand right now. And with Fortune 500 experience and Government Security Clearance , we are basically writing our own pay checks.

When I tell someone what i want they take it to their clients, most are just ok with paying me what I want... a couple balk at the price then after 2 weeks call back and ask if Im are still available .

As of late Im just hanging out waiting for a decent start up I believe in. Keeping my skills up to date as well.
--
"It's always funny until someone gets hurt......and then it's absolutely friggin' hysterical!"