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Domane
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Domane to Eagles LoveR

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Re: [NFL] Championship Weekend Discussion

You're a "youngster" according to your profile. I say youngster with envy.

My point is you as an intelligent sophisticated adult football fan that you are now, never in that state got to see Joe Montana in his prime. The guy was so good that in his prime he was as perfect a QB that ever played the game. One example of how super he was. Even when he at the end of his career with arm problems teams wouldn't blitz him. (Except for the occassional just "to keep him honest" blitz. Rare though.)

Eagles LoveR
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I'm talking about coaching your own offense. Peyton is the only QB to call his plays and do it his own way, no other QB was in that much control(still no QB that does it). Montana was magnificent, where he stands today he is more than likely the greatest - but Peyton if he wins one or 2 more with all the stats all the other smarts how can you not give it to him?
Critsmcgee
join:2011-12-02

Critsmcgee to Domane

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to Domane
said by Domane:

You're a "youngster" according to your profile. I say youngster with envy.

My point is you as an intelligent sophisticated adult football fan that you are now, never in that state got to see Joe Montana in his prime. The guy was so good that in his prime he was as perfect a QB that ever played the game. One example of how super he was. Even when he at the end of his career with arm problems teams wouldn't blitz him. (Except for the occassional just "to keep him honest" blitz. Rare though.)

Montana was great and I don't see anyone beating him anytime soon. Peyton is good but he's about done and stands no chance to get to Montana's level. I also feel sorry for the youngins who think it's remotely possible for Peyton to eclipse Montana.

Peyton does have one record over Montana: Most first round postseason eliminations by a starting quarterback!

Eagles LoveR
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So if Peyton wins 2 more Sbs(which is realistic) he isn't on Joes level in your mind? Well, okay.
Critsmcgee
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Critsmcgee

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said by Eagles LoveR:

So if Peyton wins 2 more Sbs(which is realistic) he isn't on Joes level in your mind? Well, okay.

By the numbers he won't be close. Not my opinion that's the facts. If Peyton can go 4-0 in the SB with zero int's and no close games requiring a kicker to win it we'll talk. I won't even go into the regular season stuff.

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The numbers? Peyton has him beat in every way imaginable stat wise and league MVP wise. The only thing currently is the 4 to 1 SB ratio(which is massive, obviously). But if Peyton narrowed that down from 4-1 to 4-3 it's not close despite Mannings much greater stats? Okay.
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said by Eagles LoveR:

The numbers? Peyton has him beat in every way imaginable stat wise and league MVP wise. The only thing currently is the 4 to 1 SB ratio(which is massive, obviously). But if Peyton narrowed that down from 4-1 to 4-3 it's not close despite Mannings much greater stats? Okay.

Peyton is good in the protected QB, PI new rules league today. If Montana was doing it now he's kill Peyton in numbers. Different leagues needs to be taken into account. There's no way for you to compare them without any knowledge of the league in which Montana played either.

Old article (2010) but it's a good read. They put him at #5 all-time.
»www.nydailynews.com/spor ··· 1.462621

You'd be hard pressed to put Manning over Brady right now too.

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The rules started to really change after the 2004 season. That season Manning tossed 49 TDs. Manning has played in both eras.
Critsmcgee
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said by Eagles LoveR:

The rules started to really change after the 2004 season. That season Manning tossed 49 TDs. Manning has played in both eras.

If that's the case it's 4 to 1 on SB's and will never change. Brady has 3 SB's so Manning is chasing Brady. Once he passes Brady you can start to set your sights on Unitas or Montana or even Young.

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You're saying Steve young is better than Peyton Manning?
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said by Eagles LoveR:

You're saying Steve young is better than Peyton Manning?

The 3+ ring club is pretty exclusive. We'll see if he can get there.

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Steve young has 1 ring as a starting QB in this league. So you're rewarding Steve for being on the bench while Montana did all the work? Seriously?
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Sadly Manning is chasing his own GM as well. Not to mention Favre and Marino.
»sportsillustrated.cnn.co ··· .10.html

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He has more rings than Marino so wouldn't we put him over Marino? He has as many SBs as Favre and if Peyton plays one more years(even half a year) he will shatter all of Favres records. You sound like a Manning hater my man.
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said by Eagles LoveR:

He has more rings than Marino so wouldn't we put him over Marino? He has as many SBs as Favre and if Peyton plays one more years(even half a year) he will shatter all of Favres records. You sound like a Manning hater my man.

I love Manning. I've just seen more football than you've been live. He's one of the best in recent years but just starting to crack the top 10 all-time list. Given your lack of experience I see why you think he's as good as you do. It's not your fault it's just you lack perspective right now. You'll be in my shoes in another 10-15 years with someone else about a new QB.

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said by Critsmcgee:

said by Eagles LoveR:

He has more rings than Marino so wouldn't we put him over Marino? He has as many SBs as Favre and if Peyton plays one more years(even half a year) he will shatter all of Favres records. You sound like a Manning hater my man.

I love Manning. I've just seen more football than you've been live. He's one of the best in recent years but just starting to crack the top 10 all-time list.

Your arguments are flawed - it's based on SB rings, and in the same conversation you bring Marino into it? You say Young has 3 Sbs rings when in fact he was on the bench for 2 of them. You sound like a massive Manning hater.

The guy realistically will go down holding every single major record a QB can have in the regular season. Has most MVPs in league history, more than Favre(And Peyton will add to the collection this year). Peyton may indeed end his career with another 2 SB rings and end it with 3. There is no one even CLOSE to those numbers and those accomplishments(pending if Peyton wins another 2)
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said by Eagles LoveR:

said by Critsmcgee:

said by Eagles LoveR:

He has more rings than Marino so wouldn't we put him over Marino? He has as many SBs as Favre and if Peyton plays one more years(even half a year) he will shatter all of Favres records. You sound like a Manning hater my man.

I love Manning. I've just seen more football than you've been live. He's one of the best in recent years but just starting to crack the top 10 all-time list.

Your arguments are flawed - it's based on SB rings, and in the same conversation you bring Marino into it? You say Young has 3 Sbs rings when in fact he was on the bench for 2 of them. You sound like a massive Manning hater.

The guy realistically will go down holding every single major record a QB can have in the regular season. Has most MVPs in league history, more than Favre(And Peyton will add to the collection this year). Peyton may indeed end his career with another 2 SB rings and end it with 3. There is no one even CLOSE to those numbers and those accomplishments(pending if Peyton wins another 2)

I've got $100 in the work pool on Denver winning it all. When you look at the WHOLE picture which includes rings, era, stats, comebacks, etc. Peyton is just making his way onto the scene. You can find dozens of professionals saying the same thing. There is no shortage of them. Again you lack perspective as well as experience and you know it! You call others bias while you yourself are the bias one. It's a great way to deflect stuff away from yourself as long as no one calls your bluff. Find us some articles with Peyton #1 all-time by a professionals. Let's see what you can find.

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said by Critsmcgee:

I've got $100 in the work pool on Denver winning it all. When you look at the WHOLE picture which includes rings, era, stats, comebacks, etc. Peyton is just making his way onto the scene. You can find dozens of professionals saying the same thing. There is no shortage of them. Again you lack perspective as well as experience and you know it! Find us some articles with Peyton #1 all-time by a professionals. Let's see what you can find.

MVPs go to Manning. Era? He played in two different ones same as Brady. Comebacks? Most in NFL history indeed go to Manning »www.pro-football-referen ··· reer.htm

Stats? He will more than likely end his career with every major accomplishment.

I speak to ex NFL players (Kevin Johnson of the Browns and Ravens) about this, see him quite often - learned more about football from him over the past couple months than I ever knew. And he is all about Peyton Manning.
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said by Eagles LoveR:

said by Critsmcgee:

I've got $100 in the work pool on Denver winning it all. When you look at the WHOLE picture which includes rings, era, stats, comebacks, etc. Peyton is just making his way onto the scene. You can find dozens of professionals saying the same thing. There is no shortage of them. Again you lack perspective as well as experience and you know it! Find us some articles with Peyton #1 all-time by a professionals. Let's see what you can find.

MVPs go to Manning. Era? He played in two different ones same as Brady. Comebacks? Most in NFL history indeed go to Manning »www.pro-football-referen ··· reer.htm

Stats? He will more than likely end his career with every major accomplishment.

I speak to ex NFL players (Kevin Johnson of the Browns and Ravens) about this, see him quite often - learned more about football from him over the past couple months than I ever knew. And he is all about Peyton Manning.

Prove it. Find PROFESSIONALS who say that. I posted PROFESSIONALS who said otherwise. Opinions are great but facts rule.

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Aren't professionals opinions as well not facts? I just laid out a few facts you have no response to. Nor did I say peyton at the moment is the best QB of all time, I said if he wins another one or two especially two there is no denial that the man is the greatest QB of all time. He would have accomplished everything and then some.

Also quite easy to find some random article of Peyton Manning being the best written by professionals.

»www.gq.com/entertainment ··· all-time

Big deal. That article doesn't make me say Peyton is the best at the moment or not near the best. The facts, like you said are facts. He will hold every record a QB can have, more MVPs than anyone else can come close to, most comebacks in NFL history. Those all are facts. 2 more SBs he will have just as many as Tom but a way more accomplished numbers. Shoot, he has more accomplished numbers than Marino AND has a RING, you still but Marino over him at the moment. There is no need to argue cause your argument, liked I said, is flawed.
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said by Eagles LoveR:

Aren't professionals opinions as well not facts? I just laid out a few facts you have no response to.

The simple fact is no one else shares your opinion. You need to validate that first before people entertain you further. Opinions are great but shared by 1 person vs shared by thousands with reputations for being good at giving them is another thing. Step up to the plate.......or dodge away.

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Yet again, I never said as of 1/15/14 Peyton Manning is the greatest QB to have ever lived, show me a post where I said that. I said if he wins 2 more SBs he will be, and I promise you more "professionals" will iterate what I said.
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said by Eagles LoveR:

Yet again, I never said as of 1/15/14 Peyton Manning is the greatest QB to have ever lived, show me a post where I said that. I said if he wins 2 more SBs he will be, and I promise you more "professionals" will iterate what I said.

They project Brady will be ahead of Manning when they both retire. Let's just stick to the easy comparison since Montana is out of the realm of this discussion.

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So if Brady and Manning end their careers with 3 Sbs - Brady would have been the better QB. Whats this based on?

And what the hell about projections. Man, I apologize for having this debate, haha. I should have stopped when you said Marino & Favre > Peyton. Good day sir
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said by Eagles LoveR:

So if Brady and Manning end their careers with 3 Sbs - Brady would have been the better QB. Whats this based on?

Most professionals say based on the time duration between SB's. You have to be good to win them in close succession. Feel free to Google it. There's more out there then I can possibly post here.

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Last post, I swear. Those same professionals thought Peyton Mannings career would be done after those neck surgeries. Those same exact professionals thought Brady would go 19-0 not 18-DOH. I highly doubt they predicted Eli Manning to beat Brady, not once, but TWICE in the biggest stage. Eli > Brady (??)

Now I am done, because as I said. "Marino & Favre > Manning" was too much for me to continue yet I did anyway.
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said by Eagles LoveR:

Last post, I swear. Those same professionals thought Peyton Mannings career would be done after those neck surgeries. Those same exact professionals thought Brady would go 19-0 not 18-DOH. I highly doubt they predicted Eli Manning to beat Brady, not once, but TWICE in the biggest stage. Eli > Brady (??)

Now I am done, because as I said. "Marino & Favre > Manning" was too much for me to continue yet I did anyway.

You have been done for a while and just didn't know it. Thanks for the perspective young fans have these days. Sadly I can remember being in your shoes. *cry*

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rockotman
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rockotman to Critsmcgee

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said by Critsmcgee:

The simple fact is no one else shares your opinion. You need to validate that first before people entertain you further. Opinions are great but shared by 1 person vs shared by thousands with reputations for being good at giving them is another thing. Step up to the plate.......or dodge away.

Bzzz. Wrong. I share his opinion. So does Ross Tucker, host of NFL Network Radio's Morning Kick-off.

That being said, trying to compare QBs of different eras is nearly impossible. Rule changes and the ref's enforcement of those rules (somewhat arbitrary at times) make it nearly impossible to compare stats or QB performance. In the 70's, it was perfectly legal to mug receivers and pummel the QB. Through the 80's receivers became more protected. This protection extended to QB's as the 90's were entered. Over the past 20 years, more and more rule changes have lead to the game becoming more offense oriented.

As far as comparing Montana and Manning; Montana had a knack for making plays out of nothing. Manning has a knack for beating the defense before the play even starts. Since his arm issues a few years back, he has reinvented his style of play. No longer does he rely so much on the long ball; he now relies more on the quick plays, quick progression reads, and quick decisions. The fact that he was able to reinvent his game after his shoulder issues is what makes me give him the edge.

To state or imply that Young was better than Manning is just plain ludicrous.

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said by rockotman:

said by Critsmcgee:

The simple fact is no one else shares your opinion. You need to validate that first before people entertain you further. Opinions are great but shared by 1 person vs shared by thousands with reputations for being good at giving them is another thing. Step up to the plate.......or dodge away.

Bzzz. Wrong. I share his opinion. So does Ross Tucker, host of NFL Network Radio's Morning Kick-off.

That being said, trying to compare QBs of different eras is nearly impossible. Rule changes and the ref's enforcement of those rules (somewhat arbitrary at times) make it nearly impossible to compare stats or QB performance. In the 70's, it was perfectly legal to mug receivers and pummel the QB. Through the 80's receivers became more protected. This protection extended to QB's as the 90's were entered. Over the past 20 years, more and more rule changes have lead to the game becoming more offense oriented.

As far as comparing Montana and Manning; Montana had a knack for making plays out of nothing. Manning has a knack for beating the defense before the play even starts. Since his arm issues a few years back, he has reinvented his style of play. No longer does he rely so much on the long ball; he now relies more on the quick plays, quick progression reads, and quick decisions. The fact that he was able to reinvent his game after his shoulder issues is what makes me give him the edge.

To state or imply that Young was better than Manning is just plain ludicrous.

Everything from top of bottom I agree with. Also, Peyton looked OK yesterday, right?