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ophelus

join:2004-01-11
Kansas City, MO

long term viability of usenet?

I want to ask again..

As a file sharing format.. by my thinking or reckoning it's dying.. the DMCA is killing it.. so unless we see a solution.. I think it's dead..

And I predict were going to see several major news providers go out of business.. because I just think if there's no money behind it.. there will be fewer and fewer servers.. maybe we can assume that king *giganews* (been around forever) might be able to outlast them..

I've talked about how "filesharing" would be going through a change eventually.. just seems like it's here.. and all that's really waiting is for a perfect solution to replace usenet.. and I don't think that's bittorrent yet.. and I don't think the "megaupload" crap-copiers will work either..


darcilicious
Cyber Librarian
Premium
join:2001-01-02
Forest Grove, OR
kudos:4
Reviews:
·Frontier FiOS

1 recommendation

Well, which is it? Dying? Or dead?

I continue to spend as much (if not more) money on Usenet as I was two years ago and if anything, I'm actually downloading more.

Just a single data point, for what it's worth.
--
♬ Dragon of good fortune struggles with the trickster Fox ♬

activoice

join:2008-02-10
York, ON
reply to ophelus
I use Usenet almost exclusively, and have really cut back on Bit Torrent due to corporations being able to trace back the sharers IP address, and requesting subscriber information from the ISP.

My usage of Usenet has not really diminished at all over the last 12 years that I've been with my current provider.

So for me your hypothesis does not really hold true.


gjrhine

join:2001-12-12
Pawleys Island, SC
reply to ophelus
And furthermore..... all those..... freaking..... dots...... are annoying............


TOPDAWG
Premium
join:2005-04-27
Calgary, AB
kudos:3
Reviews:
·TekSavvy DSL
reply to ophelus
HMM I'm using it fine and getting anything I want. you just need two serve providers and you're damn near can get anything. I use two one gets hit with the take downs but %95 of what I want is still there and I use the 2nd to get that last %5 that gets taken down from the first.

I can't use the 2nd as my mean account as their speeds suck and are all over the place but for a filler it's fine.

I still use torrents from time to time but not a lot.


TOPDAWG
Premium
join:2005-04-27
Calgary, AB
kudos:3
reply to gjrhine
I never understand the extra dots or the fact people sometimes sign their posts I mean your name is right to the lift on any forum on who made the post.


elwoodblues
Elwood Blues
Premium
join:2006-08-30
Somewhere in
kudos:2
Reviews:
·VMedia
reply to ophelus
With finding a new NZB site, I've pretty much put my focus back on Usenet.
I used Torrents (private tracker) for a long time., mostly TV shows.

Movies I always got from Usenet
--
Every government has its Secret Service branch: America, CIA; France, Deuxieme Bureau; England, MI5. NATO also has its own.

ophelus

join:2004-01-11
Kansas City, MO
reply to ophelus
I find myself using it a lot less than I used too.. (usenet) if I had the time or patience for headers.. I might use it more.. I find it easier to go torrents than spend a bunch of time finding expired posts of DMCA takedown content or really the targeted content for kill or whatever the null command is for data/post..

Alright if your guys are still paying for usenet.. great.. let's see where we are a year or 2 from now..?


darcilicious
Cyber Librarian
Premium
join:2001-01-02
Forest Grove, OR
kudos:4
Reviews:
·Frontier FiOS

1 edit
said by ophelus:

if I had the time or patience for headers.. I might use it more.. I find it easier to go torrents than spend a bunch of time finding expired posts of DMCA takedown conten

You're doing it wrong. At least that's true if you're looking for TV shows (and recently released movies, I would guess).

I suppose it depends on the content. I use Usenet as my DVR (easier to set up, content is commercial-free, and portable/available remotely). I sometimes grab a movie but honestly, I don't mind paying for streaming movies (Amazon, VUDU, etc) and any movie I want to watch more than once, I buy on bluray. I'm not actually into ripping off the studios, I'm much more about convenience.

EDIT: (Oh, and getting content that isn't available in my country for whatever stupid licensing reason(s), e.g. the Swedish/Danish version of The Bridge (on which the US version is based).
--
♬ Dragon of good fortune struggles with the trickster Fox ♬


kingdome74
Let's Go Orange
Premium
join:2002-03-27
Syracuse, NY
kudos:5
Reviews:
·Verizon FiOS
reply to ophelus
I switched to usenet 11 years ago and never looked back. No one knows the future but for now I have no intention of changing.
--
Beat Pitt in front of 30K+ again. Let's see... we are 18-0 overall, 4-0 in the Big East, and 1-0 in the ACC.


gjrhine

join:2001-12-12
Pawleys Island, SC

2 recommendations

reply to ophelus
said by ophelus:

Alright if your guys are still paying for usenet.. great.. let's see where we are a year or 2 from now..?

Not in need of legal advice, for one thing.
--
Gary in South Carolina --For a list of all the ways technology has failed to improve the quality of life, please press three.

ramakowski

join:2007-02-17
reply to kingdome74
I think there is a limit to how much longer governments will allow usenet to be a source of binaries downloading, but I can still find almost anything I seek. With torrent trackers publishing the address of every user of torrents, it's even harder for me to see continued prosperity in the future for them as well.


kingdome74
Let's Go Orange
Premium
join:2002-03-27
Syracuse, NY
kudos:5
Isn't nice to know our benevolent Uncle Sam has turned into this out of control raging control freak. Sickening.
--
Beat Pitt in front of 30K+ again. Let's see... we are 18-0 overall, 4-0 in the Big East, and 1-0 in the ACC.

ophelus

join:2004-01-11
Kansas City, MO

2 edits
reply to activoice
said by activoice:

My usage of Usenet has not really diminished at all over the last 12 years that I've been with my current provider.

So for me your hypothesis does not really hold true.

My hypothesis is all about money..

If a significant amount of money stops flowing to usenet providers.. they dry up and die.. only a decade ago or less.. usenet bandwidth for (outside providers) used to be limited to Gigabytes like 10 or so.. and rentetion was a week to a month or two (higher in text groups)

It's the money brought in by file sharers that expanded the rentetion to 3 years or so.. let's not kid ourselves.. the money keeps the power, servers and bandwidth going..

And my entire prediction and long term "viability" is all about the money.. so we shall see who keeps paying into usenet or not?

At some point it looks like the revenue for usenet from those paying will dry up.. that's my prediction

The only way that's not gonna happen is if there is a fix for this DMCA stuff I think.. I think the fix is we all learn to speak/read 'greek' and than the DMCA kill company can't figure out what's being posted

Given that no one cares what's being taken off usenet.. it's rather a surprise that someone isn't ordering a KILL command for just about everything on usenet.. that's not unfeasible either

And do you know why this hasn't been done yet? Because the company that is doing the DMCA is being paid to go after certain content.. on youtube they fight back about certain "take downs" on usenet there is no fight, it's just gone. this is why usenet company's supporting the "take down" save themselves from a legal fight.. but it's also like putting a noose around your own neck.. lets see what happens?


Doctor Four
My other vehicle is a TARDIS
Premium
join:2000-09-05
Dallas, TX
reply to ophelus
Usenet is still very much alive to me as all of what I want from there flies under the radar DMCA wise. The content providers mainly go after only the latest movies, TV shows, music, games and software, leaving a lot of older content untouched by takedown notices.

Pretty much everything I have gotten from there in the last year or more has always been available and not subject to takedowns nearly as much as more recent content.
--
I, for one, welcome our new Computer Overlords.


sfl0w

join:2010-07-20
Birmingham, AL
reply to ophelus
OP no offense, but your rants about Usenet dying simply leads me to believe you really do not know how to properly navigate the Usenet. The Usenet is very far from dead, it is still the largest content store on the web. The real difference now after NZBMatrix was taken down, is that it requires a bit of know how and skill to find what you are looking for, I have been using Usenet in one form or another for nearly 16 years and still love it. And headers do remain the best way to find content, not everything is nicely cataloged into an nzb


darcilicious
Cyber Librarian
Premium
join:2001-01-02
Forest Grove, OR
kudos:4
Reviews:
·Frontier FiOS
said by sfl0w:

And headers do remain the best way to find content, not everything is nicely cataloged into an nzb

Only if you NEED to find "everything"
--
♬ Dragon of good fortune struggles with the trickster Fox ♬

ophelus

join:2004-01-11
Kansas City, MO
reply to sfl0w
said by Doctor Four:

Usenet is still very much alive to me as all of what I want from there flies under the radar DMCA wise. The content providers mainly go after only the latest movies, TV shows, music, games and software, leaving a lot of older content untouched by takedown notices.

Yah, you missed a fact though.. all that older content will expire.. but more so.. it should be re-posted like it usually is.. but ahh yah..

Can you imagine 4 years or 2 years from now.. what the usenet will be like? (it might be... same old, same old.. but it might not be)

said by sfl0w:

OP no offense, but your rants about Usenet dying simply leads me to believe you really do not know how to properly navigate the Usenet.

have you ever ran a usenet server? (I have )

I might give headers a try (again) when I have a 1000 mbit of internet.. or one of the nzb web server software's (which really is a form of headers )

the usenet is dying.. it's under assault.. so there is the DMCA attacks yah and there is also the Netflix/itunes/amazon attack

So I'm not sure it can "holdout" but we'll see..

Also I reminded when I get a 1000 mbit of internet.. I should look into running a server again.. it might be worth it (but if the content dries up.. nope) as I believe I described in my first post about this subject.. I described a strategy of running a server.. not allowing "kill posts" and than you could get all the content without allowing the DMCA to expire it.. (again I assume some server software out there has this feature..)

activoice

join:2008-02-10
York, ON
My Usenet provider has over 1800 days of retention on NNTP, and I haven't downloaded headers in at least 5 years. That being said I rarely download anything older than 90 days old.

Also my usenet provider provides web access, decodes all videos and I can browse thumbnails of all videos posted. So even if the post is not titled a lot of times I can tell what it is based on the thumbnail. And if the post doesn't show up on the web interface that usually tells me that the post was cancelled.

ophelus

join:2004-01-11
Kansas City, MO
said by activoice:

My Usenet provider has over 1800 days of retention on NNTP, and I haven't downloaded headers in at least 5 years. That being said I rarely download anything older than 90 days old.

Also my usenet provider provides web access, decodes all videos and I can browse thumbnails of all videos posted. So even if the post is not titled a lot of times I can tell what it is based on the thumbnail. And if the post doesn't show up on the web interface that usually tells me that the post was cancelled.

Umm.. don't you mean easynews? I assume, there still doing this but I remember they were getting into trouble for putting their data center in Nevada or something "a blackhole".. and didn't newshosting buy them?

activoice

join:2008-02-10
York, ON
Yup that's the right provider...

They were bought up by Highwinds a few years ago. Highwinds owns a number of Usenet providers...

But maybe your opinion of Usenet would change if you gave EN's web interface a try.

Rojo

join:2009-04-14
New York, NY
kudos:1
Had EN membership back in the day. Then 'godzilla' split, EN became a nightmare and I left.
The website idea has always intrigued me. Are they really much improved these days?

activoice

join:2008-02-10
York, ON
I too miss the days of Godzilla.

They have their hicups now and then, but I haven't experienced any serious problems in the last few months.

Personally I use EN as my main provider, and a Block News account as my fill server (although the block account is rarely used). I'm currently subscribed to the classic plan and have the unlimited NNTP addon...so that's like 19.93 a month.

If you want to try out EN they have a free trial 14 days or 10gb whichever comes first. Be your own judge.


gjrhine

join:2001-12-12
Pawleys Island, SC
reply to ophelus
Google has archived everything on Usenet since 1981.


Archivis
Your Daddy
Premium
join:2001-11-26
Earth
kudos:19
Even the binaries?


gjrhine

join:2001-12-12
Pawleys Island, SC
not afain


Archivis
Your Daddy
Premium
join:2001-11-26
Earth
kudos:19
That's the only part of newsgroups that matters anymore.


gjrhine

join:2001-12-12
Pawleys Island, SC
I believe to scientific community still uses Usenet to a significant extent.

Rojo

join:2009-04-14
New York, NY
kudos:1
Text posts last forever. Binaries not so much.


lazy

@87.115.119.x
reply to ophelus
When the nzb site I used to find stuff disappeared I decided to give torrents a try, with the intention of using nntp when there was something p2p could not deliver. So far, after a couple of years, to my considerable surprise, I have not needed to do so. Everything from a very wide range of interests is available as a torrent. There are enough really large indexing sites to make finding anything simple. I did not expect to be able to manage without usenet but that is how it is.

Also, when a torrent indexer hides a link because of a DMCA request, one can with a little digging, read the original link then copy-paste it into a torrent client. However, there are usually dozens of other links to the same material so that is rarely necessary.

It wll take a long time but I think that eventually usenet as source-repository for binaries will disappear. Without rendering the internet unusable for everyone, p2p cannot be stopped now that fast DSL links have made encrypted VPN traffic a viable option even for high volume ftp.