dslreports logo
 
    All Forums Hot Topics Gallery
spc
Search similar:


uniqs
3913

Tonice2007
Premium Member
join:2005-12-20
Brooklyn, NY

Tonice2007 to criggs

Premium Member

to criggs

Re: 50/25 Going Away???

Well, if it is annoying, then fix the issue, if you are living in a populated area, such as NYC then you can:

1) Move to the middle of Georgia, where it's all "farms"...
2) Use a 5Ghz network (Router and NIC).
3) Just hard wire the network.
criggs
join:2000-07-14
New York, NY

criggs

Member

Hmmm. I think I may go with 2. Of course, I've never set up anything like that, and don't know the first thing about it. Hurray, a chance to feel like a dummy for two days while I figure it out.

Tonice2007
Premium Member
join:2005-12-20
Brooklyn, NY

Tonice2007

Premium Member

said by criggs:

Hmmm. I think I may go with 2. Of course, I've never set up anything like that, and don't know the first thing about it. Hurray, a chance to feel like a dummy for two days while I figure it out.

It's going to be the same as setting up a wireless network, using the 2.4GHz frequency; but you will be using the less crowded 5GHz, frequency.

A fair warning though, the range for 5GHz, is more susceptible to "intrusions" such as walls... Therefore, you might need APs (Access Points) or basic extenders, to reach "further".
criggs
join:2000-07-14
New York, NY

criggs

Member

said by Tonice2007:

It's going to be the same as setting up a wireless network, using the 2.4GHz frequency;

Well, I've never set up one of those either. I've simply used the ready-made wireless network coming out of the box of my hotspot modem (the Sprint Overdrive or the Sprint Tri-Fi) or the ready-made wireless network coming out of the box of my Verizon router. So this is definitely uncharted territory for me.

And, by the way, this morning I had to switch the channel again to get a good connection, and again I couldn't make one of the regular 1,6 or 11 channels work for me. I'm currently on Channel 2.

Thinkdiff
MVM,
join:2001-08-07
Bronx, NY

Thinkdiff

MVM,

Are you actually having problems or are you just always running speed tests and then changing channels when it's not showing perfect results?

WiFi will not always provide consistent speeds, but it is somewhat robust to interference. If you're not noticing problems in normal day-to-day usage, why spend so much time on "fixing" it?
criggs
join:2000-07-14
New York, NY

criggs

Member

Excellent question. Yes, I DO notice problems. Every time I've run my tests and done my channel-switching, it's been after I bump into streaming problems. I realize that many have reported similar issues, and most appear to believe this is a Verizon peering issue much more often than it is a speed issue. However, in my experience, every time I've switched to a channel with better speed results, the streaming problem that triggered the process has gone away. So, for now, I'm fairly confident I'm looking at an unstable WiFi environment rather than a Verizon peering issue.

Tonice2007
Premium Member
join:2005-12-20
Brooklyn, NY

Tonice2007

Premium Member

said by criggs:

Excellent question. Yes, I DO notice problems. Every time I've run my tests and done my channel-switching, it's been after I bump into streaming problems. I realize that many have reported similar issues, and most appear to believe this is a Verizon peering issue much more often than it is a speed issue. However, in my experience, every time I've switched to a channel with better speed results, the streaming problem that triggered the process has gone away. So, for now, I'm fairly confident I'm looking at an unstable WiFi environment rather than a Verizon peering issue.

If it's a peering issue, just use a IPv6 network, through a IPv6 tunnel broker such as HE.net, or you could use a VPN to by pass the "congested" part of the network. In simple terms, you have to go to point x and you have 2 ways to get to that point, and you relized that one path (way) is congested, so you choose the other path to get to you point x. That as simple as I can make it.
Tonice2007

Tonice2007 to criggs

Premium Member

to criggs
said by criggs:

said by Tonice2007:

It's going to be the same as setting up a wireless network, using the 2.4GHz frequency;

Well, I've never set up one of those either. I've simply used the ready-made wireless network coming out of the box of my hotspot modem (the Sprint Overdrive or the Sprint Tri-Fi) or the ready-made wireless network coming out of the box of my Verizon router. So this is definitely uncharted territory for me.

And, by the way, this morning I had to switch the channel again to get a good connection, and again I couldn't make one of the regular 1,6 or 11 channels work for me. I'm currently on Channel 2.

You basically do the same as you have done before. But you have to check that your computers/PCs/devices (what ever you want to call them) support that "network", basically you need a 5GHz compatible NIC.

Then you just connect and setup the router the same as with the 2.4GHz, router. With the security settings, if you so like to, and which channel you want to use and lastly a SSID (name for the wireless network).
criggs
join:2000-07-14
New York, NY

criggs

Member

With regards to my computers being compatible with 5 GHz instead of 2.4 GHz, I do not know how I go about checking that. I have a Windows XP, a Windows 7 and a Windows 8. My gut guess is that the latter two will be compatible, the older XP one would not.

As for "just connect and setup the router the same as with the 2.4 GHz router," well, I guess. Keep in mind, however, that there was no setup involved at all, either with my two Sprint hotspot modems or the Verizon modem. I simply Wi-Fi connected my three computers to the router in question, whether Sprint or Verizon, and VOILA! Instant network. I never had to do anything.

About the only setup I did beforehand (and I did this back when I first got the oldest Sprint hotspot almost two years ago) was to go into the home group name menu on each of the three computers and specify the name of the group to which each belonged. Once I had given all three computers the same group name, I then proceeded to WiFi connect them to the router and everything immediately and automatically fell into place. I never had to go near the router or hotspot at all, never had to configure anything, etc. etc.

If that's all it takes to set up a 5 GHz WiFi network in my place, then I suppose I should be O.K. I'm presuming what happens is the following:

1) Purchase a router that will spit out a 5 GHz WiFi signal.
2) Hard-wire it to my Verizon router, I presume through an Ethernet cable.
3) WiFi connect my three computers to this new 5 GHz-capable router.

My gut tells me there's more to it than that, which I'm hoping you will be able to fill in. In addition, what are we talking about in terms of price for a 5 GHz router? $50? $500?

Tonice2007
Premium Member
join:2005-12-20
Brooklyn, NY

Tonice2007

Premium Member

said by criggs:

With regards to my computers being compatible with 5 GHz instead of 2.4 GHz, I do not know how I go about checking that. I have a Windows XP, a Windows 7 and a Windows 8. My gut guess is that the latter two will be compatible, the older XP one would not.

As for "just connect and setup the router the same as with the 2.4 GHz router," well, I guess. Keep in mind, however, that there was no setup involved at all, either with my two Sprint hotspot modems or the Verizon modem. I simply Wi-Fi connected my three computers to the router in question, whether Sprint or Verizon, and VOILA! Instant network. I never had to do anything.

About the only setup I did beforehand (and I did this back when I first got the oldest Sprint hotspot almost two years ago) was to go into the home group name menu on each of the three computers and specify the name of the group to which each belonged. Once I had given all three computers the same group name, I then proceeded to WiFi connect them to the router and everything immediately and automatically fell into place. I never had to go near the router or hotspot at all, never had to configure anything, etc. etc.

If that's all it takes to set up a 5 GHz WiFi network in my place, then I suppose I should be O.K. I'm presuming what happens is the following:

1) Purchase a router that will spit out a 5 GHz WiFi signal.
2) Hard-wire it to my Verizon router, I presume through an Ethernet cable.
3) WiFi connect my three computers to this new 5 GHz-capable router.

My gut tells me there's more to it than that, which I'm hoping you will be able to fill in. In addition, what are we talking about in terms of price for a 5 GHz router? $50? $500?

Basically you want a router that uses 802.11n or 802.11ac standard, since those are the two main standards that can use the 5GHz frequency.

Also, you have to make sure your NIC card when you purchase it, is "compatible" (be able to use) the 5GHz. It would be listed in the specs, if it doesn't state that it is "compatible" with that frequency then most likely, it isn't; you can be sure if you check the specs on the Manufactures website. The same with the router, it would be listed on the specs.

Every router has their "own" SSID, meaning a router from Linksys would have a different default SSID from a router from D-Link, or ASUS. The easiest way to setup the router at first is to connect the router to your "PC" and find the IP address to the router and login.

To find the IP address, you can either look at the manual or just do a ipconfig (Windows) ifconfig (*NIX), as it will be listed there.

After you have the IP address to the router, you just open a browser to the IP address, to login to the router and configure it.

Cost wise it depends on what you want and how much you want to spend. It's like I want a new car, how much do I have to spend? That would depend if you wanted a Audi, Benz, Lexus, etc. or even a Race car, a regular sedan, a luxury sedan, etc.

EX, at where I use to work they didn't really have an expensive router as they didn't really need it and they wouldn't know how to configure it. While at another job site, the equipment that they used for networking, would cost as much as all the computer equipment and network equipment combined, so cost can vary on what you need/want and how much you want to spend.

Everything needed to setup, a basic wireless network would be in the manual of the NIC/router. Newegg, is a good place to start search for what you want, elsewise mwave, amazon, etc are some other places you can search for what you want.

If you need more, help I would be willing to setup your network for you if we could work something out.
criggs
join:2000-07-14
New York, NY

criggs

Member

Thank you for all this information; appreciated!
criggs

criggs

Member

said by criggs:

Channel 3 started running in the doldrums so I had to hunt and peck again, starting with the three recommended channels, 1, 6 and 11. Right out of the gate, Channel 1 was fine, so I'm O.K. for now. But this is starting to get a bit annoying, like chasing a cherry with a fork.

It has gotten so annoying, that I finally decided to accept the inevitable and switch to my own wireless router and put my whole darn network on 5ghz.

After I did so, two of my computers started purring like kittens, the oldest, Windows XP, and the second one, Windows 7.

On the other hand, my latest and greatest Windows 8 laptop didn't; it couldn't even see the 5ghz signal. After spending five hours with phone tech support for Belkin (the wireless router manufacturer), Geek Squad (I have a tech support plan with them and bought the Windows 8 computer through them and Best Buy) and Toshiba (the computer's manufacturer), it finally turned out that this latest and greatest Windows 8 computer...DOESN'T SEE THE 5GHZ CHANNEL!!!!! Is that lame or what???

Originally I had sworn I'd never tether any of these laptops to Ethernet; what's the point of a mobile laptop if I have to do that?? Well, for now, that's what I've done with the Windows 8 laptop. But I'm really unhappy about it.

I understand there are external wireless adapters one can get for laptops that are blind to 5ghz. But there's another problem: My Windows 8 computer is VERY SENSITIVE to interference on the 2.4ghz band; at the drop of a hat it disconnects, usually once every two to three hours (one of the reasons why I got the wireless router to switch to the 5ghz band in the first place). As I understand it, any external wireless adapter I get will convey a 5ghz signal that my Windows 8 computer can pick up BY CONVERTING IT TO 2.4GHZ, which means I'm right back where I started.

So I'm in the market for an external wireless adapter that can pick up a 5ghz signal AND THEN NOT CONVERT IT TO 2.4GHZ. Instead, I'm hoping the following exists: an external wireless adapter that will pick up a 5ghz signal and then convey it NOT through WiFi but through some other means to a computer, say, through USB or Ethernet or carrier pigeon or whatever.

Forgive my ignorance; this question may have a very simple and obvious answer. Frankly, I don't care; if there's an obvious answer, you can insult me as much as you like as long as you have a good answer to my question! Thanks.

Smith6612
MVM
join:2008-02-01
North Tonawanda, NY
·Charter
Ubee EU2251
Ubiquiti UAP-IW-HD
Ubiquiti UniFi AP-AC-HD

Smith6612

MVM

Look at replacing the laptop's wireless card with an Intel Centrino N 6205 if the wireless card can only do 2.4Ghz. You will be able to use the existing antennas in the laptop and will just get better performance. USB cards aren't the biggest favorite of mine. The existing antennas in the laptop will work fine.
criggs
join:2000-07-14
New York, NY

criggs

Member

Thanks for the suggestion; I'll look into it.
fcfc2
join:2014-05-17

fcfc2 to criggs

Member

to criggs
Too bad you already bought a new router, but one of these would probably have fixed you up without all the configuration issues.
»teleproducts.verizon.com ··· yDetails
But now that you are passed that point, the suggestion to try and replace your builtin wifi card might be the next best solution for your W8 machine. This can be tricky depending on the laptop manufacture, some of them block/ restrict/ whitelist the devices that you can use. A bit of homework on the manufactures support site, user forums, might give you a solution. Check the manufacturers pages for the same or similiar model machines too see if they offer a dual band wifi option, then check for the drivers on their site. If you can locate the same wifi card on ebay or whereever, the odds are good that this will work on your machine. If you get to the point of installing one make sure to get the drivers and have them on your target laptop, then go into the device manager locate the current wifi card, and delete it, including any software, shut the machine down and physically remove the old wifi card, battery out first. You can then then replace the new card and carefully, connect the antenna wires, close up and reboot. W8 may have builtin drivers, if so, great if not install the previously downloaded drivers from the manufacturer. You can try to use Intell's wifi cards but with decreasing compatibility. Make sure the supply accepts returns. Or get some geek to do it for you.
criggs
join:2000-07-14
New York, NY

criggs

Member

said by fcfc2:

Too bad you already bought a new router, but one of these would probably have fixed you up without all the configuration issues.
»teleproducts.verizon.com ··· yDetails

Thanks for the thought. I took a look at that page. They have a wireless router similar to what I bought for about an additional ten dollars. I bought mine for $65, so that wouldn't have made much difference. They also have an external wireless adapter, but it works in reverse from the way I was hoping it would. It doesn't plug into the computer; it plugs into any other computer that has access to the Internet, and then broadcasts its signal wirelessly to WiFi-capable devices, meaning I would still be stuck on the 2.4 band.

I think both of you seem in agreement that I'm better off trying to swap the inside card than getting an external doohinkey. So I'll give Best Buy/Geek Squad a shout and explore the option of them putting in the Intel Centrino N 6205. I'll keep you posted. Thanks again for the advice.

wmcbrine
join:2002-12-30
Laurel, MD

wmcbrine to criggs

Member

to criggs
said by criggs:

As I understand it, any external wireless adapter I get will convey a 5ghz signal that my Windows 8 computer can pick up BY CONVERTING IT TO 2.4GHZ, which means I'm right back where I started.

I don't think I've ever even heard of such a thing, much less is it the rule. You can get adapters that connect via USB or Ethernet. They don't depend on any existing wireless functionality.
criggs
join:2000-07-14
New York, NY

criggs

Member

Yes, I have found a few at Best Buy from Netgear, so I should be all set. It looks like I won't have to make an appointment to replace my internal card after all. I'm tentatively leaning toward the Netgear WND-3100, which Best Buy has for $32.99. I plan to pick it up tomorrow, unless someone thinks that may be the wrong way to go.
criggs

criggs

Member

Well, I took the plunge, and got an external USB Wireless Adapter. In hassle terms, that's obviously easier than begging, borrowing or stealing some maintenance time from, say, a Geek Squad technician, and going through the time and expense of losing my computer for a day or a week, while I wait for them to install a better internal wireless card. Not to mention the hassle of thrashing around trying to figure out where to get the right kind of 5ghz-capable internal card, finding the best price, putting up with the wait-time of its being shipped (no store seems to sell them), etc. etc.

I hear what Smith6612 is saying about USB cards being a second-best choice. But as long as the WND-3100 does the job, I'm happy.

Obviously, if the 3100 starts falling down on the job, I'll take a second look at obtaining a replacement for the internal wireless card and arranging for someone to install it (I would never dream of doing it myself; I'm all thumbs about stuff like that, and would probably brick the computer).

But, in the meantime, all is well. I installed the card, connected it, and connected to the network.

There was a preliminary snafu. Using the Netgear's own interface, I connected it to the 5ghz signal from the router. Unfortunately, Windows tagged the connection as a public connection, and blocked all sharing, so I was blind to my other computers and my other computers were blind to my Windows 8 computer. So I disconnected from the signal on my Netgear interface.

Then I looked at the regular Windows WiFi list, and saw that, for whatever reason, it was now using the Netgear to generate the WiFi list of available networks rather than its internal wireless card; apparently, when the Netgear USB stick is connected, it becomes the default WiFi card for the computer, blinding the computer to the crappy one-band internal card, which suits me fine!

In other words, on my regular Windows WiFi list, I saw the router's 5ghz signal FINALLY being listed, big as life (and noticed the list of available networks was somewhat larger overall as well). So I connected to the 5ghz router signal using the standard Windows commands, and immediately got the appropriate query as to whether this was a public or private network (what a relief!). I quickly picked private, and --

-- BOOM! all my sharing was back as it should be; I could see my other two computers and my other two computers could see the Windows 8 box.

I then ran the obligatory speed and quality tests and was suitably blown away. Best I've ever seen (other than this lame past 24 hours when my Windows 8 was boat-anchored to that frigging Ethernet cable).

So it looks like I'm good to go.

Thanks to everyone who kept telling me I needed to get my own router and switch to the 5ghz band; I should have taken your advice months ago!

aaronwt
Premium Member
join:2004-11-07
Woodbridge, VA
Asus RT-AX89

aaronwt to criggs

Premium Member

to criggs
Just disable the device you don't want to use and the other device will be the default. And it's only a matter of changing from public to private for the connection also. Good thing you didn't take it to Geek Squad. It probably would have been in worse shape when you got it back.
criggs
join:2000-07-14
New York, NY

criggs

Member

said by aaronwt:

Just disable the device you don't want to use and the other device will be the default.

Actually I've decided not to do that. I've never had problems with the internal card when I've been on the road, and my T-Mobile thingy has always worked fine with it (I presume the T-Mobile thingy only broadcasts on the 2.4 gig frequency, but I've never explored that question). So I'm not going to bother bringing the Netgear with me when I'm on the road; I figured I'll just leave the internal one enabled so I don't have to keep toggling it on and off, depending on my location.

Speaking of which, this morning, when I turned on the computer, in my WiFi lists I'm now seeing TWO sets of networks, labeled WiFi and WiFi 2. Apparently I can connect to either set; I connected to the 5gig signal on the WiFi 2 list, and everything still appears to be working fine.
said by aaronwt:

Good thing you didn't take it to Geek Squad. It probably would have been in worse shape when you got it back.

They may have a strong shop in the Midtown Manhattan Best Buy store; my experiences have been positive, except for the LENGTH it takes for them to get stuff done.
criggs

criggs

Member

said by Smith6612:

Look at replacing the laptop's wireless card with an Intel Centrino N 6205 if the wireless card can only do 2.4Ghz...USB cards aren't the biggest favorite of mine.

said by criggs:

I hear what Smith6612 is saying about USB cards being a second-best choice. But as long as the WND-3100 does the job, I'm happy.

Well, that was fast; it doesn't. Smith6612, you were right.

It turns out that NO Netgear external USB wireless adapter supports promiscuous mode and, without promiscuous mode, my stream capture program doesn't work.

So it looks like I'll be ordering the 6205. Geek Squad already told me a few days ago they were willing to install it if the external USB card didn't work out. Well, looks like it isn't.

So, unless one of you knows of an external USB dual band wireless adapter that supports promiscuous mode, it looks like I've got to go to plan B.
criggs

criggs

Member

said by Smith6612:

Look at replacing the laptop's wireless card with an Intel Centrino N 6205 if the wireless card can only do 2.4Ghz. You will be able to use the existing antennas in the laptop and will just get better performance. USB cards aren't the biggest favorite of mine. The existing antennas in the laptop will work fine.

I'm happy to say that my long nightmare appears to be over. I finally received the 6205 today, Geek Squad installed it within an hour, I went home and got connected at 5ghz immediately. (By the way, at first, Intel told me either the 6205 or the 6235 would work fine; they expressed a preference for the latter, since it was newer. It was just dumb luck that I happened to come across an online discussion where someone happened to mention that he had swapped a non-Bluetooth card for a card that also had Bluetooth, -- and ran into major difficulties. Literally seconds away from clicking the button, I caught the detail that the 6235 had Bluetooth, and stopped myself just in time; another example of why I really should take most of what you say very seriously!)

As for my stream capture program, it still wouldn't work at first, which gave me quite a start. Turns out that when you switch network adapters, you need to re-install the stream capture program, since it installs network drivers that are custom-built to that adapter.

So, holding my breath, I uninstalled and re-installed the stream capture program.

Then I went to a site that had streams available to download; IT WOIKED!!

So I got a refund on the Netgear adapter, and I'm finally good to go hopefully.

It's frustrating that one little thing, getting a router to create a 5ghz WiFi network, turned into such a prolonged headache; it doesn't speak very well of the user-friendly nature of the current computer industry.

But thank you again, Smith6612, for your good advice, even if I was a little slow taking it; I'll know better next time!

Smith6612
MVM
join:2008-02-01
North Tonawanda, NY
·Charter
Ubee EU2251
Ubiquiti UAP-IW-HD
Ubiquiti UniFi AP-AC-HD

Smith6612

MVM

Not a problem

In the 6205 Driver properties panel there is a setting to force the card to connect to 5Ghz networks by default. This applies for networks with the same SSIDs broadcast across the two bands. I'd set that up
criggs
join:2000-07-14
New York, NY

criggs

Member

Thanks for the thought; I'll take a look and locate it. In my case, the Belkin router I got gives the 5ghz signal a different name than the 2.4ghz in order to avoid the trap of accidentally connecting to the lower rather than the higher. But if I'm visiting somewhere, the ability to connect to a 5ghz network as my first choice will certainly come in handy!

So I took your advice the first time you gave it to me (for a change!) and just selected 5.2 as the preferred band. Thanks! (I was a little startled when I was immediately disconnected, but I was able to reconnect immediately, so no harm done.)

Smith6612
MVM
join:2008-02-01
North Tonawanda, NY

Smith6612

MVM

You're welcome. Enjoy