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compuguy1088

join:2003-05-26
Burke, VA

1 recommendation

reply to BiggA

Re: [Pricing] Here comes the Router rental fee of $4.99

said by BiggA:

Yes, you would still need an ethernet router. A simple MoCA adapter will get the STBs online if you have any of their crappy STBs. A user who is going to bring their own router is most likely also bringing their own TiVo Premiere/Roamio and Minis, so they have their own MoCA system, and have nothing to do with Verizon's STBs anyways. And if a TiVo user gets an HD box from Verizon, it will just bridge through the TiVo to get MoCA anyways.

I do this currently, but I don't have Ethernet running to my router. I use a diplexer to spit off the moca wan to a older netgear moca adapter that works with the moca wan. That goes to the 3rd party router. The ant side of the diplexer goes to a splitter and goes to the various tv's in my condo.


Thinkdiff
Premium,MVM
join:2001-08-07
Bronx, NY
kudos:11

2 recommendations

reply to guppy_fish

Re: [Pricing] Re: Here comes the Router rental fee of $4.99

Well you asked for one that does not, and Cablevision does not (in addition to others besides the big two).

I'd also argue providing a choice of router / modem brands (even if limited) is significantly better than requiring a single brand and not the same at all.
--
University of Southern California - Fight On!


guppy_fish
Premium
join:2003-12-09
Lakeland, FL
kudos:2
Reviews:
·Verizon FiOS

1 recommendation

reply to Thinkdiff

Cable you rent or buy the DOCIS modem, Verizon no charge for the ONT. You can also buy the Verizon router, not really any different than buying a cable modem to not pay rental fees

Also I believe it was TW the mandated certain models or brands for DOCIS 3 modems, at least they did for a while

I'm not sticking up for them, its just they all do the under the line charges



Thinkdiff
Premium,MVM
join:2001-08-07
Bronx, NY
kudos:11

1 recommendation

reply to guppy_fish

Cablevision, Time Warner Cable, Comcast, etc. None of them require a single specific brand of router. In fact, Cablevision provides a modem and router free of charge.

TWC and Comcast charge for renting modem, yes, but you can use your own fairly easily. They have no restrictions on what router you can use.
--
University of Southern California - Fight On!


guppy_fish
Premium
join:2003-12-09
Lakeland, FL
kudos:2
Reviews:
·Verizon FiOS
reply to dvarona

said by dvarona:

They want the benefit of saying it's a lower price, while also getting the benefit of charging a higher price. Just charge me $65 for the whole thing, instead of pretending you're giving me a $60 deal. Pretending is for babies. And greedy companies.

Please link a company you can get similar services from that DONT do this ...

You can't, they all do it ...

dvarona

join:1999-11-29
Richmond Hill, NY
Reviews:
·Covad Communicat..
reply to guppy_fish

Then why charge extra? Why not just include it in the price?

They want the benefit of saying it's a lower price, while also getting the benefit of charging a higher price. Just charge me $65 for the whole thing, instead of pretending you're giving me a $60 deal. Pretending is for babies. And greedy companies.



More Fiber
Premium,MVM
join:2005-09-26
West Chester, PA
kudos:30
reply to Squirrelly

Re: [Pricing] Here comes the Router rental fee of $4.99

said by Squirrelly:

once I switch to TIVO I can just remove their router and hook up my own?

Yes.
said by Squirrelly:

so nothing special I need to do?

Just be sure to release the DHCP lease before swapping routers.
»Verizon Online FiOS FAQ »How do I release my DHCP lease
--
There are 10 kinds of people in the world; those who understand binary and those who don't.


Squirrelly

join:2000-10-24
Harrisburg, PA
reply to gadgetboyj

OK, so nothing special I need to do? Currently I need to use theirs because I still have the STBs but once I switch to TIVO I can just remove their router and hook up my own?


gadgetboyj

join:2009-08-25
Staten Island, NY
kudos:2
reply to Squirrelly

Assuming you already have FiOS Service, you can use whatever router you're currently using, or switch it for your own if you're currently using the Verizon router.



Squirrelly

join:2000-10-24
Harrisburg, PA
reply to guppy_fish

I'm getting ready to switch to TIVO. When I do can I use any router for Verizon TV and internet or do I still have to use their's?


guppy_fish
Premium
join:2003-12-09
Lakeland, FL
kudos:2
reply to KGB7

Fee's started being charged in April


KGB7

join:2003-12-17
Rockville, MD
reply to guppy_fish

said by guppy_fish:

The fee just went into effect, not two months ago ...

This thread is 3 month old and thats when the so called fees were supposed to go into effect. But there are no fees for new customers. At least not for me.

guppy_fish
Premium
join:2003-12-09
Lakeland, FL
kudos:2
reply to KGB7

The fee just went into effect, not two months ago ...


KGB7

join:2003-12-17
Rockville, MD
reply to elefante72

Im a new customer as of 2 months ago and i can confirm that i have no rental fee the router/modem!


BiggA

join:2005-11-23
EARTH
reply to nothing00

Yes, you would still need an ethernet router. A simple MoCA adapter will get the STBs online if you have any of their crappy STBs. A user who is going to bring their own router is most likely also bringing their own TiVo Premiere/Roamio and Minis, so they have their own MoCA system, and have nothing to do with Verizon's STBs anyways. And if a TiVo user gets an HD box from Verizon, it will just bridge through the TiVo to get MoCA anyways.


BiggA

join:2005-11-23
EARTH
reply to RevDiff

Interesting. If you wanted a faster rev, I wonder if you could install at 50/25, switch to your own ethernet router, and then call them up and have them boost the speed? Of course, that assumes you have a GPON ONT in the first place to support the 150+mbps packages.



nothing00

join:2001-06-10
Centereach, NY
reply to BiggA

said by BiggA:

So by their rules, you could rent for a month and then return it?

It sure sounds like that should be possible.

You will still have to:
own your own MoCA router _OR_
(have an Ethernet connection to the ONT _AND_
connect your STBs to the network somehow)

Even after that a lot of things can go wrong. At that point we'll get the answer to the question about whether they require you to have an Actiontec/Verizon router. And whether you can get away with lying to them. Unless we don't... and the CSRs are confused. Or, in spite of what their online forms say, their billing system won't allow it. Or... sun spots.


RevDiff

@216.66.5.x
reply to nothing00

I have a scheduled install for 50/25 in a few weeks and talked to an online tech who told me if you have a plan 100 Mb/s and above, you need Rev. I. because it requires a gigabit router. I told him I already had an earlier revision and he said I would be able to use it because of the plan I was signed up for.

Now I need to buy one though... Does anyone know any difference between revisions C through F and which one I should purchase? The rev D look like they're going for about $20 but E's and F's are a bit more expensive.


BiggA

join:2005-11-23
EARTH
reply to nothing00

So by their rules, you could rent for a month and then return it?



nothing00

join:2001-06-10
Centereach, NY

1 recommendation

reply to BiggA

said by BiggA:

The question is, will their billing system allow this?

From the text it's clear the option is there to bring your own router. So they must have a way of removing the charge. It looks like they just need a MoCA enabled router for install.

If they really insist you have one, you could, you know, *gasp* lie to them and tell them you acquired one elsewhere when you return the rented one.

They even include a Westel on the list so sounds like they're not too picky. You can get an old rev Actiontec for real cheap on eBay if you want one as standby for troubleshooting.

BiggA

join:2005-11-23
EARTH
reply to nothing00

The question is, will their billing system allow this?



nothing00

join:2001-06-10
Centereach, NY
reply to Thinkdiff

said by Thinkdiff:

There's really no valid reason for this new policy other than Verizon needs to pad their bottom line.

Yeah, ultimately it's a money grab. I mean, they used to do the install and leave you with one with no charge. I don't read the quoted text as a requirement that you USE their router. It sounds like it's a requirement that you have one for installation.

Sounds like you should be able to "rent" it for installation your first month and return it. They probably won't support you over the phone unless you're using one though.

dfwguy

join:2013-10-24
reply to Thinkdiff

Is there any evidence that the requirement is actually being enforced? We know that once the installer is gone that everything works fine without an Actiontec, but are installers actually refusing to set things up for people who don't have one? If they aren't, then there's nothing to stop people from choosing the option to buy one elsewhere, then just not buying it.



Thinkdiff
Premium,MVM
join:2001-08-07
Bronx, NY
kudos:11

2 recommendations

reply to nothing00

said by nothing00:

A tech arriving and having to attempt to deal with everyone's home network is a bit much to ask considering their STBs require connectivity.

Then make the router required for TV installation. Why is it required for Internet-only? Or better yet, make the support policy "we will just provide an ethernet cable if you use your own equipment - no further support". That's worked fine for ~10 years.

There's really no valid reason for this new policy other than Verizon needs to pad their bottom line.
--
University of Southern California - Fight On!

BiggA

join:2005-11-23
EARTH
reply to nothing00

But according to that theory, they would tie the router to their rented STBs. The Ethernet user with their own router is also likely to be a TiVo user.


BiggA

join:2005-11-23
EARTH
reply to elefante72

MCE is a MESS. I built an HTPC and tried to use it as an HTPC, I ended up using TiVo. TiVo today isn't much more expensive, as you can use one Roamio and a bunch of Minis. You can have up to 10 TVs total per account officially, although some people have more. You can't just use another account, as they wouldn't be able to share content with a box on the original account.

TWC is a nightmare for TiVo or MCE, since they improperly flag their content, although in theory, that concept of swapping providers via CableCard works if you have two good providers in your area, like Verizon and Comcast.

Your overall point of saving money by buying your own equipment, however, is correct, and the calculations are almost identical for MCE and TiVo, typically a 36 to 48 month payback depending on how many TVs you have and what the provider charges for boxes (more TVs typically pay back quicker).


BiggA

join:2005-11-23
EARTH

1 recommendation

reply to batsona

I don't think they care to do anything technical. Doing it by the billing system, and not enforcing what's actually being used achieves their goal of making more money. The annoying part is that very few people know how to set it up with Ethernet and use their own router anyways, so you'd think they'd just let people not buy their crappy router, but they got greedy. They don't care if you use your own, as long as you've already paid for theirs.



nothing00

join:2001-06-10
Centereach, NY
reply to elefante72

Just tried to check out online to find out a bit more. When getting to the FiOS Internet installation page you're offered options:

1. Rent a Wireless Router $4.99/mo
2. Buy a Wireless Router from Verizon $99.99
3. Buy a Wireless Router from Actiontec.com $n/a
View important purchase information

So I clicked on "View important purchase information" and up came:
Note that because of many advanced features recently integrated to the FiOS Service, only one router model will ensure full compatibility with all FiOS TV services:
•Actiontec Model MI424WR Rev I

This router can be recognized as follows:
• Red band around the front side of the router
• Model #MI424WR Rev I
• The model number is located on one side of the router red band
• Two WiFi antennas integrated to the rear panel

The Actiontec model MI424WR can be purchased at »www.shopactiontec.com/verizonbhr.html

Also, you must have this router on hand the day of your service installation. Without it, your service cannot be installed or activated.


There's also something that says:
Already have a Verizon Router? View compatibility info

So I clicked on "View compatibility info" and up comes:
Note that because of many advanced features recently integrated to the FiOS Service, you must have one of these 2 routers for your FiOS service to work:

•Actiontec Model MI424WR
Required for speeds of 150 Mbps & higher;
•Westell Model 9100EM

Please be sure you have one of these models by checking the following items:

•Verizon logo on the router
•The model number, typically located at the bottom of the router.

If you currently have one of these routers, please call us at 1-888-389-7299 to complete your order.

For added convenience, select the “Save Now” button at the top of the ordering page and all the selections you’ve made so far will be saved and available when you speak to a representative.

If you do not have one of these routers, you will need a new router. You can make a selection as part of your online order. Close this message to continue.


I'm not one to give a lot of slack to Verizon but it seems like what they want to ensure is that the installation can complete [quickly]. A tech arriving and having to attempt to deal with everyone's home network is a bit much to ask considering their STBs require connectivity.


elefante72

join:2010-12-03
East Amherst, NY
reply to Thinkdiff

If it's on the approved list. If not YMMV w/ TWC. I personally don't use AT, but a openwrt router. I could care less what Verizon thinks.

My point earlier is that you suck it up as a cost out of your Visa card, or pay the vig and call it a day. It's not like it's going away. The reason that TWC can offer you many different CM is because DOCSIS is a standard. Verizon's is somewhat proprietary, so you have to go with their hardware. Sure they use MoCA, but MoCA WAN providers of equipment out there, there is only a single source. If you decouple MoCA WAN and go ethernet, then I agree their position is BS, because then you open it up to every router out there. Which is a support nightmare, and hence why they probably take this stance.

I was referring to Tivo Mini. I really only need 2-3 tuners total so 1 DVR. That would be crazy expensive. I don't have 5k sitting around

Referring to setup much easier than WMC. Can't comment on tinkering of latest Tivo, except a bud has one and I set it up. It took me 5 minutes w/ Verizon because activating CC is really easy. W7MC was a science project.



Thinkdiff
Premium,MVM
join:2001-08-07
Bronx, NY
kudos:11

1 edit
reply to elefante72

said by elefante72:

Well you have the same options as me, and TWC also charges for their modem. You can buy that one too.

That's not the same. If Verizon was charging a rental fee for the ONT or making you purchase one from X number of vendors, then I might agree. With TWC, they give me an option of what modem to buy (I bought a $50 linksys) and I get to use whatever router I want - so they're still providing just a "dump pipe". With Verizon's new policy, you are restricted to whatever routing features they sanction and no more. There's also a technological requirement to have a modem of some kind - there's no technical reason you need to have a router, let alone a Verizon-branded Actiontec.

said by elefante72:

I have 5 TV's and this would have cost me a mint to do on Tivo, and I think they only support 4 anyways.

TiVo allows up to 10 boxes per account. If you really wanted to, you could just make multiple accounts and have a theoretically unlimited number of TVs (obviously a practical limit is probably in the 15-20 range due to splitting the signal so many times).

said by elefante72:

Tivo is cool if you don' want to tinker,

Not sure why we're talking so much about TiVos here, but I'd argue you can do as much or more "tinkering" with a TiVo as with WMC (especially the TiVo HDs).
--
University of Southern California - Fight On!