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guppy_fish
Premium
join:2003-12-09
Lakeland, FL
kudos:3
Reviews:
·Verizon FiOS
reply to KA3SGM

[Pricing] Re: Here comes the Router rental fee of $4.99

Its no different than cable modems, and I agree the older firmware allows changing the MAC address, one firmware tweak could take care of that issue for routers Verizon leases, I a suspect that will be the way they keep track of whats owned vs leased


ITALIAN926

join:2003-08-16
kudos:2
reply to elefante72
Its for NEWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW customers


Rattler

join:2001-04-13
Havertown, PA
reply to elefante72
Heh...

I've had FiOS since Feb, 2007 when they gave me a Rev. C Actiontech. The installer also gave me a NIM-100 since I wanted to use my own Linksys router - worked fine until the bolluxed up Remote DVR crap hit the fan. At that time, if you kept FiOS for more than a year, you owned the router. That part of the TOS did not change for a few years after that. My interpretation is that the router is mine now, since I've had FiOS continuously since then, and I fulfilled the requirements of the contract at that time. The router should not be able to revert back to V's ownership at a later time, once its ownership transferred to me.

Also, I've been given to understand that they don't want that old Rev. C electronic brick back anyway...

What happens to the router rental fee if someone decides to buy a Rev. I from V* and returns the router they provided at installation - obviously this would apply to new installs. There'd be no question that it wouldn't be a non-rental router under those circumstances.
--
Never raise your hands to your kids. It leaves your groin unprotected. -- Red Buttons


Nick5

@verizon.net
said by Rattler:

What happens to the router rental fee if someone decides to buy a Rev. I from V* and returns the router they provided at installation - obviously this would apply to new installs. There'd be no question that it wouldn't be a non-rental router under those circumstances.

Since it is so old, I don't think they will really want the old one all that badly or be eager to replace it. That said, as a loyal customer, and since it was they decided to limit DVR, guide and on demand functionality to Actiontec setups you may get them to play ball.

I suggest you contact them ASAP before the reps get too used to the buying/renting of routers idea. Make sure you mention how it is unfair you can't utilize the On-Demand and guide functionality included in your TV plan. (only mention DVR if you are subscribed to it or want to hint at possible being interested)

Shady Bimmer
Premium
join:2001-12-03
Northport, NY
Reviews:
·Verizon FiOS
said by Nick5 :

That said, as a loyal customer, and since it was they decided to limit DVR, guide and on demand functionality to Actiontec setups you may get them to play ball.

To clarify this - only the remote services such as Caller-ID-on-TV and Remote DVR require the actiontec. VOD, guide, and other services work just fine without the Actiontec. The FAQ provides the details.

floridafuzz
Premium
join:2008-02-23
Hope, RI
reply to elefante72
Checked with my local Fios friends this morning and they double checked and said it was for new installs only. I think you can also still buy the rev I router for $99.00 and avoid the monthly rental fee.
Also tried to get info on a couple of other things- I think new boxes with multiple tuners should roll out in the 2nd quarter of this year.
Also 500/100 is available in my area for big money-however it must be pre-approved by Verizon 1st and only 1 per CO.
Since I don't work for Verizon I'm not sure if this info is cast in stone but I'm just passing it along.

descartes

join:2013-09-24
reply to CGMason14
said by CGMason14:

How long have you had service? After a year, under Verizon's current terms, the router is yours to keep, even if you cancel service.

Really? A relative of mine cancelled service a few months ago after having service for over 2 years (moving to a non-fios area). They specifically said both on the phone and in the verizon store that the rev F router had to be returned or pay a lost equipment charge. The phone rep said anything rev D or later had to be returned.

So apparently the router did not actually have to be returned?


nycnetwork

join:2000-11-12
Brooklyn, NY
reply to floridafuzz
said by floridafuzz:

Checked with my local Fios friends this morning and they double checked and said it was for new installs only.

I'm a new customer just ordered FiOS a few days ago, installation this Thursday.
Router fees are $0.

floridafuzz
Premium
join:2008-02-23
Hope, RI
The only thing that I can think of is that the start date for the monthly rental has not occurred yet. I did not get a specific date but thinking back about the conversation I had with my friends at Fios, I do remember something about the fee possibly starting next month.


PA23

join:2001-12-12
East Hanover, NJ
reply to Shady Bimmer
said by Shady Bimmer:

To clarify this - only the remote services such as Caller-ID-on-TV and Remote DVR require the actiontec. VOD, guide, and other services work just fine without the Actiontec. The FAQ provides the details.

Don't know about the Remote DVR (I don't have one), but I can confirm you DO NOT need the actiontec router for the Caller-ID on the TV. My ONT handoff is Ethernet to a Cisco router and I'm using a TiVo for an Ethernet to MoCa bridge to supply the one FiOS cable box I have. I received caller ID on that box with no issues, the channel guide worked and so did VOD.

--PA23
--
It's the end of the world as we know it, and I feel fine


More Fiber
Premium,MVM
join:2005-09-26
West Chester, PA
kudos:31
What steps did you take to get caller-id working with the Cisco router? I'd like to update the FAQs.
--
There are 10 kinds of people in the world; those who understand binary and those who don't.


PA23

join:2001-12-12
East Hanover, NJ
Nothing special at all, it just worked.

BiggA

join:2005-11-23
EARTH
reply to floridafuzz
Wouldn't it be one per 32-customer fiber strand, not one per CO? The bandwidth is shared at the fiber level, not really the CO level.

Also, why would anyone on this forum, or anyone who knows their tech have a FIOS DVR? TiVo is so much better than crappy MSO DVRs.

Shady Bimmer
Premium
join:2001-12-03
Northport, NY
Reviews:
·Verizon FiOS
reply to PA23
said by PA23:

Nothing special at all, it just worked.

Presumably you at least had to create port forwards and create ACLs to allow the inbound traffic.

Did you already have it enabled before you replaced the AT with your Cisco? (For me it did not. Once it was enabled it worked fine but not before)

Do you have to do anything when your IP changes? (When my IP changed, I had to make the AT available again for CallerID to start working again)

Does Caller-ID on your TV continue to work after you attempt an auto-correct via the STB? (Mine did not until I made the AT available again)

Channel guide and VOD do not use inbound connections initiated by VZ, however Remote DVR and CallerID both do.

floridafuzz
Premium
join:2008-02-23
Hope, RI
reply to BiggA
in answer to your 1st question - I'm not really sure. I didn't ask for any more details as I have no need for 500/100 and it is cost prohibitive in my case.


PA23

join:2001-12-12
East Hanover, NJ
reply to Shady Bimmer
I turned in the last verizon box a week ago so I can't do any further testing however I can confirm
1) I did not need to create any inbound ACL's for the STB traffic, the STB initiated a connection thus poking a hole through the firewall
2) I did have Caller-ID enabled prior to replacing the AT router
3) I simply pulled the AT router out of the network, enabled one of my TiVo's to become a MoCa bridge and Caller-ID continued to work

Prior to pulling the AT out of the network, I did setup for a double nat type configuration with 2 routers plus the AT router, on my inside router I NAT'ed between a private address on its "public" interface and the dynamically provided public address that Verizon provided on its "private" interface. I never updated the routers pseudo public address when my real outside address changed and noticed that Caller-id continued to work.

At that point I simply pulled the AT router and second internal router off the network enable MoCa bridging and found everything continued to work.

I did try the self help/caller-id test on the STB and it worked as well.

I don't know if I was just lucky or Verizon has changed how they do things
--
It's the end of the world as we know it, and I feel fine

System
reply to BiggA

[Pricing] (topic move) TIVO or FiOS DVR

Moderator Action
The post that was here (and all 10 followups to it), has been moved to a new topic .. »TIVO or FiOS DVR

Shady Bimmer
Premium
join:2001-12-03
Northport, NY
Reviews:
·Verizon FiOS
reply to PA23

[Pricing] Re: Here comes the Router rental fee of $4.99

said by PA23:

1) I did not need to create any inbound ACL's for the STB traffic, the STB initiated a connection thus poking a hole through the firewall

Not quite. Remote DVR and Caller-ID are initiated remotely on the VZ side. If you did not create any ACLs or port forwards in your Cisco router then these two services could not have worked. This is why you will see these port forwards in the AT router after enabling them and why the FAQ details how to set these up if you make your own router the primary.

2) I did have Caller-ID enabled prior to replacing the AT router

I already noted this earlier. If you had the service enabled already then VZ knows how to reach the STB/DVR via the external interface on your router. If the service had not yet been enabled then you likely would not be able to successfully enable it without the AT, but once it is enabled you may not need the AT until the details change.

Prior to pulling the AT out of the network, I did setup for a double nat type configuration with 2 routers plus the AT router, on my inside router I NAT'ed between a private address on its "public" interface and the dynamically provided public address that Verizon provided on its "private" interface. I never updated the routers pseudo public address when my real outside address changed and noticed that Caller-id continued to work.

Could you clarify further? Which of the configurations in the FAQ did you use? What is a 'private' interface as used here? What is a 'pseudo public address' as used here?


PA23

join:2001-12-12
East Hanover, NJ
said by Shady Bimmer:

Not quite. Remote DVR and Caller-ID are initiated remotely on the VZ side. If you did not create any ACLs or port forwards in your Cisco router then these two services could not have worked. This is why you will see these port forwards in the AT router after enabling them and why the FAQ details how to set these up if you make your own router the primary.

I can assure you I had no translation rules or ACLs for traffic going to my STB, and the STB received an address via DHCP

said by Shady Bimmer:

Could you clarify further? Which of the configurations in the FAQ did you use? What is a 'private' interface as used here? What is a 'pseudo public address' as used here?

I believe its what the FAQ calls a "three router configuration" #8

Again I simply pulled the three router configuration out and put the STB directly on my "main" network, I did not adjust any translations or NAT rules.
--
It's the end of the world as we know it, and I feel fine
Expand your moderator at work

FiOScost2muc

join:2013-07-02
Brooklyn, NY
reply to elefante72

[Pricing] Re: Here comes the Router rental fee of $4.99

I am already a FiOS Quantum 50/25 customer. I have internet with basic home phone/long distance (not digital voice; I don't use cell phones). I think they still categorized me in a Internet/Phone bundle program, not sure. Is Verizon gonna start charging me a $4.99 router rental fee?


ITALIAN926

join:2003-08-16
kudos:2
no


Flojomojo

join:2000-11-06
Silver Spring, MD
reply to elefante72
To me, this looks like an effort to "anchor" a higher price so they can knock it down with discounts and look like they're offering a great (probably limited-time) deal.

Or perhaps a starting point for negotiating prices down.

Or an effort to appear like they have lower prices by spreading out costs over the period of a 2-year contract, much like how wireless carriers subsidize expensive smartphones.

I dislike scammy pricing schemes, but when they have the best network, it's hard to argue with them.

VirtualLarry
Premium
join:2003-08-01
Reviews:
·DSL EXTREME

2 recommendations

said by Flojomojo:

but when they have the best network, it's hard to argue with them.

With Comcast peering with Netflix directly, and rolling out IPv6 nationwide, I don't think that one can call VZ's FIOS network "the best" anymore. Just Saying...


aaronwt
Premium
join:2004-11-07
Woodbridge, VA
reply to elefante72

Re: [Pricing] Here comes the Router rental fee of $4.99

said by elefante72:

So I just get a promo in the mail and start looking at all the fees (activation, etc), and this is the first time that I see laid out a $4.99 router rental fee in a 3 play package. Now this is only $60 a year, but tag on $5 to your bill....

It looks like the days of the free router are coming to an end.

Attached..

It wasn't even worth it for being free anyway. They would need to pay me to use the Actiontec routers. Over the last seven years they have sent me four of them. They are all gathering dust in a closet. Even back in 2007 when I first got FiOS, my criteria was that I needed to be able to use my own router.

Of course I did try returning them at one point, but they wanted me to go through a bunch of hoops which was not worth my time or effort. So it's easier just to throw them in pile in the closet every time I receive one


seaquake
Premium,MVM
join:2001-03-23
Millersville, MD
reply to elefante72
This also sounds like a really good scheme to get people to buy the $100 router instead of paying the $5 per month rental fee. That way, when the router fails, VZ doesn't have to pay for replace it as it does today for those with TV service. I know if they hit me with that fee, I'll be going down to the store and picking one up. Hate that I have to use it but for full TV functionality, I don't have any other choice.


Nick5

@verizon.net
said by seaquake:

This also sounds like a really good scheme to get people to buy the $100 router instead of paying the $5 per month rental fee. That way, when the router fails, VZ doesn't have to pay for replace it as it does today for those with TV service. I know if they hit me with that fee, I'll be going down to the store and picking one up. Hate that I have to use it but for full TV functionality, I don't have any other choice.

I think Verizon would much rather people pay monthly than buy one. I don't think Actiontecs fail that often, and it is probably even more rare that they can't be cheaply refurbished.

Fewer and fewer people care about full TV functionality, esp. with services like Netflix and therefore will buy their own routers. The lack of ethernet wiring in a lot of homes is more likely to deter people but in apartment buildings, ethernet and your own router will likely become more popular quickly.

In the end, I think this will backfire. Verizon benefist more through on-demand content than most user do. Every person who switches routers will be one less person to market videos on demand to. A proposition like Redbox Instant becomes less valuable when it isn't integrated in the the TV itself. (though, I don't think you can do that yet anyway.)


Thinkdiff
Premium,MVM
join:2001-08-07
Bronx, NY
kudos:11
A network connection is required for guide data, too, so not having a MoCA bridge of some kind isn't really an option. It'd be nice if Verizon activated the Ethernet ports on their STBs now there's a de facto tax on MoCA, but don't expect that to happen anytime soon.

The vast majority of people will just suck it up and pay the monthly fee because they don't know any better. And that's exactly what Verizon is counting on.
--
University of Southern California - Fight On!

DBman190

join:2002-06-10
New York, NY

1 recommendation

reply to elefante72
After getting my ONT internet switched to ethernet, I returned my router at one of the FIOS stores and it no longer shows up on my account online, and the "Wireless Router Rental" line no longer shows up under features in my account. Hopefully my bill shows the fee removed.

I don't have any set top boxes so using my own router causes no problems for me. I only have FiOS local TV (so I could get the $50 package with 50/25 internet) which works with the QAM tuner.


T0ny

@67.80.29.x
Just ordered Internet service in NY, no TV, no phone, when I reached the part about router required, I clicked on online chat, told the rep I don't need a wireless router, I just have one PC, only need a single wired connection, told me that it's required, they have a rent option for $4.99 or a buy option for $99.99, chose the buy as it's a 2 year contract, it's sucks that one has to be forced get a wireless router when not required, what else do I have to look forward too, I live in an apartment, will I be required to get a battery backup if I'm only subscribing to internet service?