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uniqs
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cdn_dsl
join:2011-01-07

cdn_dsl

Member

No static IP on any cable service?

What makes cable internet so inherently different from DSL that no one I contacted so far is offering static IP, needles to say a network?

GreenEnvy22
join:2011-08-04
St Catharines, ON

GreenEnvy22

Member

Mostly just because they don't want people running servers on their home networks I imagine.
Cable business plans all allow for static IP, so it's not a impossible technical limitation.

Part of it could also be that cable modems IP addresses are tied to particular POI's, so it's a bit more of an administrative burden as you need to create a static pool on each POI. Whereas with DSL I think there are much larger IP pools so you just need 1 (or a couple) static pools to setup.

I could be wrong on that one, someone can correct me if I am.

Guspaz
Guspaz
MVM
join:2001-11-05
Montreal, QC

Guspaz to cdn_dsl

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The current technical infrastructure for TPIA access can't efficiently support static IPs. This is a technical limitation, not a "cableco wants to stop servers" limitation. Cablecos can support it for their own customers because the limitations imposed by how TPIA DHCP pools work doesn't apply.
cdn_dsl
join:2011-01-07
·B2B2C High-Speed..

cdn_dsl

Member

Weirdest cr@p I ever encountered in my life!

My buddy in Toronto DT has cable on Rogers for about 15 years now and his IP never changed.

My other buddy in California had to give TW his modem's MAC and they gave him a an IP the moment he ordered service even though he never asked for a fixed one. For all the years he uses service the IP never changed.

So for those two customers it's a fixed IP anyway even though they never asked for it to be fixed.

TypeS
join:2012-12-17
London, ON

TypeS to cdn_dsl

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to cdn_dsl
You can get a static IP on business plans from the cable companies themselves (ie. Rogers, Cogeco, Shaw, Videtron).

If you're asking TPIA ISPs such as Start, TSI, EBOX, Distributel, etc. they only sell residential plans which don't have an option for static IP addresses.

I wouldn't say it a technical limitation so far as its bureaucratic. The MSOs have decided thus far to control the DHCP servers and only ask to given IP address ranges per node.
cdn_dsl
join:2011-01-07

cdn_dsl

Member

Exactly. Bureaucratic cr@p. I can get dual 50/10 DSL with at the very least 4 IPs per connection, total of 8 IP LAN, but not on single cable. This is friggin retarded.

rogersmogers
@start.ca

rogersmogers to cdn_dsl

Anon

to cdn_dsl
DSL the ISP runs the DHCP server. Cable the TPIA provider does the ISP just provides the IP Pools to them.

No need for static IP on a home cable connection anyways.

elwoodblues
Elwood Blues
Premium Member
join:2006-08-30
Somewhere in

elwoodblues to cdn_dsl

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I have been on Shaw, Rogers, Distributel and now Vmedia for cable internet. I can say for the most part my IP never changes, which effectively makes it static.

I used to create a DNS entry to access it remotely, but I've since moved to using Logmein for that.

EUS
Kill cancer
Premium Member
join:2002-09-10
canada

EUS to rogersmogers

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to rogersmogers
said by rogersmogers :

DSL the ISP runs the DHCP server. Cable the TPIA provider does the ISP just provides the IP Pools to them.

No need for static IP on a home cable connection anyways.

Servers in my basement prove you're wrong.

Guspaz
Guspaz
MVM
join:2001-11-05
Montreal, QC

Guspaz to cdn_dsl

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said by cdn_dsl:

Exactly. Bureaucratic cr@p. I can get dual 50/10 DSL with at the very least 4 IPs per connection, total of 8 IP LAN, but not on single cable. This is friggin retarded.

Please stop repeating this false nonsense. The lack of static IPs is a technical restriction. The CRTC appointed a CISC Network Working Group to come up with a solution to the problem. Each possible solution about how to achieve this technically was examined, and all but two were rejected. The two that remain are largely up to the TPIA to implement, the most likely of which being L2TP tunnels.

You can view the report yourself: »www.crtc.gc.ca/public/ci ··· E049.doc

More detailed explanations of why specific proposals were rejected are in different documents, this one is just the summary.
cdn_dsl
join:2011-01-07

cdn_dsl

Member

If I can configure my own DHCP server to assign the same IP to a given MAC every time, so can carrier.

Guspaz
Guspaz
MVM
join:2001-11-05
Montreal, QC

Guspaz

MVM

And what happens when the node splits and the cableco is forced to split the DHCP pool between the two nodes? Are you seriously implying that running a DHCP server on your home LAN is the same as running a DHCP service for a massive broadband network involving thousands of nodes and millions of customers?

DHCP doesn't work well with cable network topology changes. AFAIK cablecos don't even use DHCP for their own static IP customers.
Guspaz

Guspaz to rogersmogers

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to rogersmogers
said by rogersmogers :

DSL the ISP runs the DHCP server.

DSL providers don't use DHCP. It works completely differently, in a way similar to the L2TP approach favoured by the CRTC for TPIA static IPs.

elwoodblues
Elwood Blues
Premium Member
join:2006-08-30
Somewhere in

elwoodblues to Guspaz

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to Guspaz
On paper you can reserve the IP which would work just fine.

Guspaz
Guspaz
MVM
join:2001-11-05
Montreal, QC

Guspaz

MVM

It would work fine until the topology changes (which happens frequently in cable networks, if not for individual customers), at which point your IP would change. In other words, not static.

elwoodblues
Elwood Blues
Premium Member
join:2006-08-30
Somewhere in

elwoodblues

Premium Member

Wouldn't that depend if you are on the new old node after the split? (I'm assuming that the DHCP server is at the node)

Guspaz
Guspaz
MVM
join:2001-11-05
Montreal, QC

Guspaz

MVM

Yes, in a pure 2:1 node split, you'd probably have a 50:50 chance of keeping the same IP... doesn't change the fact that it's not a static IP, and it doesn't solve the problem. In fact, reservations might also break if TPIAs need to re-allocate IPs.

L2TP tunnels solve the problem, and have always been available to TPIA companies. It solves the problem the same way that PPPoE does for DSL.
cdn_dsl
join:2011-01-07
·B2B2C High-Speed..

cdn_dsl to Guspaz

Member

to Guspaz
said by Guspaz:

And what happens when the node splits and the cableco is forced to split the DHCP pool between the two nodes?

Bureaucratic task. MAC does not change. Enter new mapping and voila. They should have software for doing that, or is that too much to ask?
trog
join:2001-03-25
Scarborough, ON

trog

Member

We already see way to often what happens when Rogers does node splits to clients of firms like TekSavvy. You actually expect they would be able to handle remapping of static IP addresses for their clients any better?

elwoodblues
Elwood Blues
Premium Member
join:2006-08-30
Somewhere in

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said by cdn_dsl:

[ or is that too much to ask?

Yes

Guspaz
Guspaz
MVM
join:2001-11-05
Montreal, QC

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said by cdn_dsl:

said by Guspaz:

And what happens when the node splits and the cableco is forced to split the DHCP pool between the two nodes?

Bureaucratic task. MAC does not change. Enter new mapping and voila. They should have software for doing that, or is that too much to ask?

The MAC address doesn't change. But after a node split (or any other topology change, or any other pool reallocation), the IP assigned to that MAC address potentially no longer exists in the DHCP pool. You can't just enter the new mapping, the routing would be broken. Your DHCP server would be giving out an IP address that doesn't belong to it.
cdn_dsl
join:2011-01-07

cdn_dsl

Member

IP is IP is IP.
If they ever assigned a valid IP to a MAC address, that IP will be valid no matter what happens to physical topology. It's still a bureaucratic task. Difficult? Yes, life is tough. But doable.

rednekcowboy
join:2012-03-21

rednekcowboy to cdn_dsl

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to cdn_dsl
A split doesn't mean both pools have 2 brand new sets of IP's (they could, but they don't have to).....just saying.

It's administrative over-head, that is all.

sbrook
Mod
join:2001-12-14
Ottawa

sbrook to cdn_dsl

Mod

to cdn_dsl
Adminstrative over head? Administration that's way over Rogers head more like! They can't keep track of the IPs for TPIAs ... dunno how they'd cope with static ones! Already there are tons of customers assigned the wrong TPIA's IP addresses!

Guspaz
Guspaz
MVM
join:2001-11-05
Montreal, QC

Guspaz to cdn_dsl

MVM

to cdn_dsl
said by cdn_dsl:

IP is IP is IP.

Your lack of understanding of IP routing does not make things magically work in the real world. If two people are on the same subnet and they get split between nodes, it'd be a problem.

It was not the cablecos that decided that this wasn't possible, and it wasn't CNOC or CAIP (representing the TPIA ISPs) that asked the CRTC to examine that scenario.

Go read the NTWG's reports to the CRTC yourself. What you want is impossible, it would merely provide less dynamic IPs.
olic
join:2006-07-06
Montreal

olic to cdn_dsl

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I don't know if Rogers operates in the same way, but Vidéotron Business solutions, to provide static IP addresses to clients uses a technique that any TPIA could use too.

They uses a regular cable modem and a router. This router gets a dynamic address (from DHCP) on one network ports which is connected to the modem and open a tunnel from this connexion to another device on provider side using an ID. On another network port of the router, Vidéotron can offer fixed IP addresses for this client. Any TPIA can install this type of equipment. It would even be possible to get the same kind of result with some VPN provider...
yyzlhr
join:2012-09-03
Scarborough, ON

yyzlhr

Member

I can't recall how they do it but I'm assuming it's something more complicated then most people think. On Cable Rogers only offers static IPs on certain business packages. You can't even pay extra to get static IP on many of the tiers.

sbrook
Mod
join:2001-12-14
Ottawa

sbrook

Mod

yeah ... anything that means something special is an administration nightmare as far as Rogers is concerned.

THey work on the KISS principle, and they screw that up.
julienvf
join:2008-12-30
Verdun, QC

julienvf to cdn_dsl

Member

to cdn_dsl
I'm on Acanac cablein Vidéotron land and my IP hasn't changed since I plugged my modem for the first time 18 months ago! Almost static...

sbrook
Mod
join:2001-12-14
Ottawa

sbrook to cdn_dsl

Mod

to cdn_dsl
The point is that with a static IP you can point a domain name at an IP ... but not so with a dynamic IP because you just don't know when it's gonna change. That's why services like dyndns exist ... to try to follow you when your IP changes.