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TF110

@74.113.110.x

WMC HD viewing issue

Hello again everyone.
A few months ago I dove in an went the HTPC route to get rid of my FIOS cable boxes.
This setup is great and I'm so glad I did this, however I have recently discovered an issue.

First my setup:
1 xbox360 (WMC Extender) in living room (connected through cat5 cable to converted FIOS MOCA adapter)
1 xbox360 (WMC Extender) in basement (connected through cat5 cable to FIOS router)
1 HTPC in storage closet in basement

My issue is when I begin watching HD cable on the TV in the basement when my wife already has HD TV on in the living room.
The "Network Issue" icon comes on the basement TV and the HD shows are choppy. The TV in the living room is unaffected.

It also occurs opposite when I'm watching HD tv in the basement and then my wife turns on the TV in the living room. The tv in the living room has the "network issue" icon with choppy HD tv shows.

When I test the signal on the xboxes, it shows full bars so I'm confused about the "Network issues" icon.

Does anyone know what I can do to resolve this issue so we can both watch HD tv on our respective TVs at the same time.

IanR

join:2001-03-22
Fort Mill, SC
I occasionally had a network issue so I replaced my router.
It could be inefficient router settings but I leave those with more tech knowledge to advise on that.
I am a bit confused (easily done) as to why if you are using an Ethernet connection to the living room why is there a need for a MOCA adapter?
MOCA speeds are slower than regular wired Ethernet connections as a rule.

I also used a "powerline" connection to one Xbox and this worked OK (if you ever use this get a high speed like 500)).

For an experiment, or at least until someone suggest something better, why not switch the offending Xbox to a "wireless" connection instead or wired? It's very simple to configure this way, takes about 5 minutes. Best of luck.


billdacat

@lmco.com
You may want to consider installing a Network switch... I would take a second look at your HTPC and see if you are having some network performance issuies. Where are your tuners???

Cogdis

join:2007-03-26
Floral Park, NY
reply to TF110
If you have a network tuner (like the HD Homerun) then you really need a gigabit (1000 Mbps) network. Fios routers should be Rev. I or G since Rev. A-F max out at 100 Mbps.
An HD channel could go as high as 20 Mbps, and since it must stream from the tuner to the HTPC and then to the Xbox it's actually streaming each channel twice so it needs double the bandwidth (as much as 40 Mbps each)

The older actiontecs max out at 100 Mbps, but all of this is a drop in the bucket for the newer gigabit models.


TF110

@74.113.110.x
I believe my FIOS routers can handle it, but perhaps I am wrong.

Here is more details regarding my setup.

I have a Ceton infinitv 6 card installed into my HP desktop with Windows 7.

In my basement (where the HTPC is) I have a Rev E router that is connected to both my HTPC and an Xbox360 directly though cat5 cable.

In my living room I have a Rev D router that I converted into a MOCA adapter connected to an xbox360 through cat5 cable.

Here is the link to my previous post....i literally followed "Dream Killer" instructions to the letter in order to get my setup working.
»[Networking] Most affordable/effective way to get Wireless N router on FIOS?

Anyway, hopefully you all can provide me with some insight and I will finally be able to watch HD the same time my wife is watching HD on a different TV.


TF110

@74.113.110.x
reply to billdacat
My tuners are in my HP Windows 7 pc. I bought the Ceton infinitv 6 tuner card and installed into the back of my pc.

I'm unsure about network permance issues. I've tested on each of my xbox360s as well as my pc and all seem to be really good. I can give more specific numbers when I get home and i'll test them again.


TF110

@verizon.net
reply to billdacat
Ok, so I just completed a speedtest on my PC and also tested the network on each of my xbox360s.

My pc had the following: 31mb/s download, 21.77mb/s upload, 35ms latency
xbox in living room: Full bars on WMC tuner test
xbox in basement: Full bars on WMC tuner test

Seems like everything is doing what it is supposed to. Other than the fact that I cant watch HD or both TVs at the same time.

Would the speed of the PC have anything to do with it?
RAM: 6.0GB
Processor: AMD Phenom II X4 840T, 2.90GHz

Or do I need up upgrade my FIOS router?
Basement (primary router): MI424-WR Rev E
Living room (MOCA router): MI424-WR Rev D

My next thought it to purchase the FIOS Rev I router but I think that only upgrades the wireless signal and would probably not change the issue I am experiencing. Plus I dont want to drop $100 on that router.


Thinkdiff
Premium,MVM
join:2001-08-07
Bronx, NY
kudos:11
What kind of hard drive are you using to store the recordings? Is it internal? Were recordings in progress while you tried to view two HD streams at the same time?

A 100Mbps network should be able to handle 2 HD streams concurrently.
--
University of Southern California - Fight On!

Cogdis

join:2007-03-26
Floral Park, NY
reply to TF110
said by TF110 :

My pc had the following: 31mb/s download, 21.77mb/s upload, 35ms latency
xbox in living room: Full bars on WMC tuner test

Your internet speeds are different than what you get on your home network. Since you're streaming on your home network we need to see what speeds you get between the PC and the extenders.

Do you have a second PC available? If so you can unplug the cable from the xbox, then connect it to a laptop and transfer a large file from the HTPC to that laptop. This will tell you exactly what your real world speed is.

Since your tuners are in the HTPC you only need 40 Mbps for 2 HD streams. Your equipment SHOULD be giving you more than that if functioning properly.

thadsaab

join:2007-09-10
Fairfax, VA
reply to TF110
Cogdis is right, your hardware should be sufficient. Clearly, however, there is a problem.

Since the either xbox works fine if it connects first, most likely the problem is in the shared items in the path: the htpc, the network cable, and the router.

1. It is unlikely to be the issue, but if it's easy, I'd try swaping the network cable to the htpc.

2. Try connecting a switch between the htpc, basement xbox, and router.

3. Is there a difference between when you watch live tv simultaneously on both xboxes and when you watch recorded tv simultaneously on both? I think watching recorded tv on both will require 1/2 of the disk access.

4. Watching TV on the xboxes shouldn't cause much CPU usage on the htpc, but it should be easy to verify.

elefante72

join:2010-12-03
East Amherst, NY
reply to TF110
What motherboard and nic are you using? I have seen this issue before.


TF110

@verizon.net
reply to thadsaab
Hey everyone, thanks for all of the replys. My power has been out (northeast ice storm) and just recently restored, so I apologize that I've been unable to respond.

Cogdis,
1. I will try what you recommend regarding the network cable. I'll get back to you on that.
2. I don't have a network switch, though I'm unsure what that even does or how to connect/operate it.
3. There is no difference. If she is watching a HD recorded show on xbox360 and i'm watching live HD, then one of the xbox will experience the "network issue".
4. When looking up CPU usage on my pc it never gets higher than 40% and that is with 2 xbox and the pc going at the same time.


TF110

@verizon.net
reply to elefante72
Elefante72,

I have a N-Alvorix-RS880-uATX (Alvorix) motherboard.
My NIC is PCI Realtek RTL8105E

I have a HP Pavilion p7-1026 desktop pc running Windows 7 Home premium (64 bit)


TF110

@verizon.net
reply to thadsaab
Thadsaab, I apologize, that previous response was meant for you.

elefante72

join:2010-12-03
East Amherst, NY
OK. that is an older mobo w/ RT 10/100. Are you using the PC to watch TV (Media center) when this is occurring, or it is only when extenders are in operation.

The weak link in the server is usually the older PCI busses and more importantly the Realtek embedded ethernet are real junk.

Your motherboard has embedded ATI graphics, so if ans to question 1 is yes, are you using the onboard video or a PCIexpress dedicated graphics card.

Most likely this can be solved by putting an Intel Pro NIC in the server, but need to know what else is going on.


TF110

@verizon.net
We rarely use the PC to watch media center so I'm not sure if it occurs when watching PC and 1 Xbox at the same time.
The issue occurs every time we have both extenders in use on HD programming.

The ceton is 6 tuners so I'm sure there have been times where the PC is recording 2 or more shows while we watched HD show together on an extender without any issues.

I use a radeon HD 5450 pciexpress dedicated graphics card. (But that is only connected to PC monitor through dvi)

I appreciate the help. Thanks.

elefante72

join:2010-12-03
East Amherst, NY
Ok. I had this problem early on in my setup and it came down to a few things I needed to modify.

Here are my thoughts on possible issues:

1. NIC. That Realtek NIC really stinks and from the combination of your older system while capable could easily be taking up more than 75% of your PCI us capacity. The Realtek NICs use minimal offload so they are inturrupt heavy and use lots of CPU resources. You can get an Intel Pro PCIe adapter used on ebay or if you look around for $15. It will be 100/1000.

2. MoCA 1.0 - Both of your routers D,E run on the old Moca standard which while it has QoS does not do a good job. I had a pair of Netgear MCAB001 (MocA 1.0) and whenever both were in operation, I would get the Network quality issue. I rectified by running Cat 6 directly to both points. As your basement router is really just for ONT connectivity and the switch for basement, you really can't do much. You could call Verizon and tell them you are having network issues (you are) and they may update it to a modern one w/ GB port which will go well with your Intel NIC. If you go the Intel way you have to turn off flow control. This leaves your Rev D router. You can get a swap from Verizon and see if that helps (pro won't because I have a Rev F which is MoCA1.1 and had the issue. You can get a used AT Moca 1.1 bridge which only serves that purpose. This way you really don't have to configure anything.

Also if they give you a rev I, the switch in it is GB like I said earlier and much more powerful.

The bridge here ($75 for twin pack). You can keep it an use it or sell the other on ebay or CL. People are always looking for them:

»www.amazon.com/gp/offer-listing/···tion=new

I would start w/ the Intel NIC (CT Pro) and see if that clears anything up. Worst case for $15 or so you have a modern NIC that you can use in your next system for the next 10 years and it does offload and interrupt management.

If that doesn't help, then try going to MoCa 1.1 adapters and have Verizon get you a newer gateway....

I also had issues and I upgraded to a GB switch, but if you get a newer Actiontec from Verizon then it will be powerful enough.

I would also check your MoCA stats in the router, and try changing channels to see if that helps. I also ALWAYS recommend to cap off any splitter or outlet 100% to minimize MoCA interference.

Example:

»www.amazon.com/Type-75-Ohm-Termi···resistor

HTH


Thinkdiff
Premium,MVM
join:2001-08-07
Bronx, NY
kudos:11
MoCA 1.0 vs MoCA 1.1 won't really make a big difference in this case, especially because only 1 stream is going over the MoCA network anyway. That shouldn't affect both at the same time.

OP: Simplest (and cheapest) test you need to do is put both Xboxs on the same wired switch next to your computer. Play two streams and see what happens. If they work fine, then (and only then) would I start pointing fingers at the MoCA connection or routers. If it doesn't work, then I'd start checking your computer and NIC.

One long shot that you can test before that: do you have an antivirus or firewall installed that monitors web traffic? Try turning off that part of it (or just disable it completely for a short time) and then test again. Many firewalls have issues pushing a lot of data.
--
University of Southern California - Fight On!


TF110

@74.113.110.x
Ok, i'm going to try the cheapest route first and go from there.

Base on Thinkdiff's recommendation, i'll take the xbox from the living room and plug it into the primary router in the basement. (This router already has the HTPC as well as an xbox connected directly to it). I'll play HD live TV on both extenders at the same time and see if the issue appears.

I'll do this tonight and will get back to you.

If that doesnt work, then I'll use elefante's recommendation and switch out the NIC with something more powerful.

Again, thanks for your help with this.

Pher9999

join:2011-07-06
Carmel, NY
There has been known issues with Network speeds, such as full/half duplex issues. Yes the NIC can cause alot of issues with the bandwidth.


TF110

@verizon.net
reply to Thinkdiff
Today I was finally able to take the Xbox from the living room to the basement and plugged it into the same router as the htpc and other Xbox.
I was able to view HD programming on both xboxes at the same time for over 30 mins without a "network connection" issue.
So my next question is, what does this mean? Seems that the nic card can handle the output. (Im still going to upgrade anyway)
Would you suspect a problematic moca (converted) router in the living room?

elefante72

join:2010-12-03
East Amherst, NY
It may be the bridge chip and GPIO between the MoCA chip and the ethernet/CPU chip becomes saturated and cannot handle the simultaneous packet load. I would connect the Xbox back to the MoCA connection and look at the stats when the issue is happening. If it looks like MoCA isn't having issues, then you may have to upgrade you main router to a newer version. I have a Rev E and when I had two MoCA on it I would get the network issues, even if only one was in operation and sometimes when only MoCA was running.

A few thoughts:

1. Did you do a hard reset and DL the latest firmware for the endpoint (AT connected to the Xbox LR)?
2. Firmware up to date on both
3. Absolutely sure you don't have any services running on the endpoint.
4. Are your Moca Stats coming up at 230 or greater on both?
5. What is your splitter config/branch config for the setup.
6. No amplifiers or power strips "filtering" the coax in the system.
7. Make sure IGMP proxy is disabled on both AT (Advanced->IGMP Proxy)
8. No firewall rules, QoS, etc setup. Sometimes people fiddle and forget. Like Uncle Earnie.

The thing that concerns me is that you were seeing the issue on the ethernet Xbox, which isn't a MoCA issue per se, but perhaps saturation. I would make sure IGMP is disabled first.