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ITALIAN926

join:2003-08-16
kudos:2
Reviews:
·Verizon FiOS

1 edit

1 recommendation

TIVO or FiOS DVR

quote:
Also, why would anyone on this forum, or anyone who knows their tech have a FIOS DVR? TiVo is so much better than crappy MSO DVRs.
Youre kidding, please tell me youre kidding. The FiOS MultiRoom DVR is an awesome thing. Ive never had a Tivo, I researched it once. The upfront costs, the DVR + lifetime service for the unit, is OUTRAGEOUS. If you dont get lifetime, the monthly charge is still like $16 a month PLUS cable card. Giving it no financial edge over the FiOS DVR.
Love your Tivo with additional tuners few people actually need, but when yours burns out and your SOL, maybe your tune will change. FioS DVR's , lets see, lifetime coverage for malfunction. I'll take the FiOS DVR, thanx.


PA23

join:2001-12-12
East Hanover, NJ

Re: Here comes the Router rental fee of $4.99

said by ITALIAN926:



Youre kidding, please tell me youre kidding. The FiOS MultiRoom DVR is an awesome thing. Ive never had a Tivo, I researched it once. The upfront costs, the DVR + lifetime service for the unit, is OUTRAGEOUS. If you dont get lifetime, the monthly charge is still like $16 a month PLUS cable card. Giving it no financial edge over the FiOS DVR.
Love your Tivo with additional tuners few people actually need, but when yours burns out and your SOL, maybe your tune will change. FioS DVR's , lets see, lifetime coverage for malfunction. I'll take the FiOS DVR, thanx.

I think the cost of a FiOS multi-room DVR is now $32 per month? so if you take $32 - $5 (cable card fee) its costing you $27 a month more than a TiVo with lifetime service. I purchased my first TiVo, I paid $240 for a used Premier with lifetime service. (premiers are cheaper now since they are the old model) so if you take $240 / 27 you break even in under 9 months. A Roamio (current model 4 or 6 tuners, a boat load of storage) is expensive, (with lifetime new rounded up to the next full month
)
Roamio Basic - $700 - 26 months
Roamio Plus - $900 - 34 months
Roamio Pro - $1100 - 41 months

If my numbers are wrong then simply adjust them accordingly.

I do admit, you loose the callerID and VOD but that doesn't bother me.

Also the two most common items to fail on the DVR is the hard disk followed by the power supply. There is a procedure on the Premiers to replace the disk with a new (larger if desired) disk, the Roamios are simple drop in a new disk and go. Power supplies are also available from various vendors.
--
It's the end of the world as we know it, and I feel fine


ITALIAN926

join:2003-08-16
kudos:2
In what dimension do you pay $32 a month for FIOS MRDVR? and considering that a Tivo is not MR-DVR, the proper comparison is a standalone FIOS DVR which is $16.99 , (MRDVRs are $19.99 a month).


PA23

join:2001-12-12
East Hanover, NJ
ok, then at $15 a month 240 / 15 = 16 months to break even on a used Premier, obviously quite a bit longer for the Roamios.
--
It's the end of the world as we know it, and I feel fine


ITALIAN926

join:2003-08-16
kudos:2
Reviews:
·Verizon FiOS
reply to PA23
quote:
Roamio Basic - $700 - 26 months
Roamio Plus - $900 - 34 months
Roamio Pro - $1100 - 41 months

and you want to ignore the cable card charge over that time period?

I have to quote myself from another forum
quote:
The bottom of the barrel Roamio cost $199 + $499 service. That is $700, and you cannot ignore the $4.99 cable card rental while the up-front costs are being paid off. $16.99 VZ DVR - $4.99 Cable Card= $12. $700/12 = 58 months to break even.
Want their top of the line? Its $599 + $499 92 months to break even :yikes:

Of course Lifetime service is not required, then only$14.99 / month service is required, now an alternative to a VZ DVR is costing you $20 a month with Cable Card indefinitely.

and to check my math for 58 months, Verizon DVR at $16.99 / mo $985
Price of cheapest Tivo $700 with Lifetime "service", plus 58 months of cablecard@4.99 = 289 total $989

Yea, I'll keep my FioS DVR, Tivo is not even a consideration considering a pathetic Tivo 1 year of warranty.


aaronwt
Premium
join:2004-11-07
Woodbridge, VA
reply to ITALIAN926
said by ITALIAN926:

quote:
Also, why would anyone on this forum, or anyone who knows their tech have a FIOS DVR? TiVo is so much better than crappy MSO DVRs.
Youre kidding, please tell me youre kidding. The FiOS MultiRoom DVR is an awesome thing. Ive never had a Tivo, I researched it once. The upfront costs, the DVR + lifetime service for the unit, is OUTRAGEOUS. If you dont get lifetime, the monthly charge is still like $16 a month PLUS cable card. Giving it no financial edge over the FiOS DVR.
Love your Tivo with additional tuners few people actually need, but when yours burns out and your SOL, maybe your tune will change. FioS DVR's , lets see, lifetime coverage for malfunction. I'll take the FiOS DVR, thanx.

You're kidding, please tell me youre kidding?

Tivos cost less than using the FiOS DVRs. I've been using TiVos with FiOS since Summer 2007. If I had been using FiOS equipment instead, I would have easily paid four figures more during the same time period. Plus with the TiVo I own it. So I can sell it at some point later further reducing the cost of ownership. But everytime I compare FiOS or Comcast DVRs to the cost of my TiVos, the TiVos always come out costing less.

And TiVo does have Multi-room DVRs. My Roamio Pro can be connected to 8 or 9 TiVo Minis for access from other locations.

elefante72

join:2010-12-03
East Amherst, NY
Reviews:
·Verizon FiOS
reply to ITALIAN926
What is lost in your numbers is that if you buy lifetime you can RESELL these devices and they have good resale value. I have had friends that upgrade every two years and pay out of pocket no more than $100. With a lease, it's $0 residual.

Verizon gave me the MRDVR free for a year, and it sucked so bad compared to W7MC I just turned it back in 6 months early. I could get over the fact that my 4 remote STB all sucked up 15 W 24/7. That was adding over $10 a month to my electricity bill.

Also new tivos do have remote capability (Tivo Mini).

I am with you however, the upfront cost is exorbitant, however today 2014 you can build a W7MC solution for MUCH less than Tivo or MRDVR. Extenders can be had for under $100 and I new Intel boxes can be had w/ disk for about $250. Add a HDHR for $89 and you are off to the races w/ 3 tuners. If you want more buy a Ceton.

The BIG elephant in the room is Verizon's cost for their new VMS boxes. I don't think Verizon is going to make them cheaper than current devices, and if that is so then they are no better except maybe more tuners than what is out there.


sivran
Vive Vivaldi
Premium
join:2003-09-15
Irving, TX
kudos:1
said by elefante72:

Also new tivos do have remote capability (Tivo Mini).

Tivos have been networking since at least Series 2. One S2 Tivo can playback recordings made on another, if they're on the same account.
--
Oh, Opera, what have you done?

elefante72

join:2010-12-03
East Amherst, NY
Reviews:
·Verizon FiOS
I was talking about not buying another DVR, but you bring up an excellent point. When I had my Tivo's that did not work properly but that was long ago...If I recall it wasn't a stream, you had to download the whole thing first... They have MRS now tho...

The new model is much better, except the cost of the mini it crazy expensive w/ lifetime...

My concern is if the FCC allows Cablecard to go away (the operators are trying), this would turn all 3rd party existing devices (mine included) into paperweights, so I'm wary on any big investments at this point. At least w/ W7MC I can always sell my extenders as gaming consoles.

BiggA

join:2005-11-23
EARTH
reply to aaronwt
Exactly. The typical payback, depending on the cable company, is around 48 months. The Minis usually pay back in less than that, typically around 36 months.

The first CableCard has to be free, and they actually have to give you an equipment credit, that is federal law, as FIOS is a cable TV service, and regulated as such (hence CableCard). I guess that falls apart if you have an HD box for VOD and a TiVo for DVR.

Comcast charges $17/mo for the DVR, $3/mo for whole home service, and $10/mo for the secondary boxes, and the average payback is around 40 months on a multi-room system.

For TiVo to make sense, you have to get Lifetime. The monthly service is for suckers who can't do math. Just like the new cell phone rental programs and basically anything else that is monthly that can be paid for all at once instead.


Thinkdiff
Premium,MVM
join:2001-08-07
Bronx, NY
kudos:11
said by BiggA:

The first CableCard has to be free, and they actually have to give you an equipment credit, that is federal law

No it isn't.

The law is if your package includes a STB, then they must provide a CableCARD for free + credit. Comcast is the only major provider that does this, AFAIK.

Verizon's STB charges are all on-top of the normal TV costs, so the first (and all subsequent) CableCARDs is/are an outrageous, industry leading $4.99.

But how the hell did we all start talking about how much TiVos cost in a thread about router fees? I love TiVo as much as anybody, but this discussion is really pointless in this context.
--
University of Southern California - Fight On!


ITALIAN926

join:2003-08-16
kudos:2
Reviews:
·Verizon FiOS
reply to aaronwt
quote:
Tivos cost less than using the FiOS DVRs. I've been using TiVos with FiOS since Summer 2007. If I had been using FiOS equipment instead, I would have easily paid four figures more during the same time period. Plus with the TiVo I own it. So I can sell it at some point later further reducing the cost of ownership. But everytime I compare FiOS or Comcast DVRs to the cost of my TiVos, the TiVos always come out costing less.

My numbers are 100% accurate. The cheapest Roamio today does not pay for itself until month 58, almost 5 years ! So, for the 6th year that youre in, it would have basically cost just $4.99/mo , well congratulations. lol No idea what you mean by "4 figures more". Like I said, love your tivo, but if its breaks , youre up shits creek.


aaronwt
Premium
join:2004-11-07
Woodbridge, VA

4 edits
said by ITALIAN926:

quote:
Tivos cost less than using the FiOS DVRs. I've been using TiVos with FiOS since Summer 2007. If I had been using FiOS equipment instead, I would have easily paid four figures more during the same time period. Plus with the TiVo I own it. So I can sell it at some point later further reducing the cost of ownership. But everytime I compare FiOS or Comcast DVRs to the cost of my TiVos, the TiVos always come out costing less.

My numbers are 100% accurate. The cheapest Roamio today does not pay for itself until month 58, almost 5 years ! So, for the 6th year that youre in, it would have basically cost just $4.99/mo , well congratulations. lol No idea what you mean by "4 figures more". Like I said, love your tivo, but if its breaks , youre up shits creek.

I've owned around thirty TiVos since 2001. I've never had one break. I've also never had a break even period of 5 years. it's typically around 3.5 to 4 years and much less with the resale value.

My GF still has two of my old S3 TiVos. They have been running basically 24/7/365 since December 2006 without issues. And even if the TiVo has an issue. 99% of the time it will either be the hard drive or power supply. Both of those are easily replaced if needed.

By four figures I mean I've saved well over $1k since Summer 2007 by using TiVos instead of FiOS DVRs. At one time I had five TiVos on FiOS. The rental fee on five FiOS DVRs would have been very high. Then of course I sold all those TiVos for between $450 and $700 each. Which covered most of the cost of new TiVos. And the cycle continues.

The last TiVo I sold was a TiVo ELite/XL4. I sold it for $480. I sold two of them to cover most of the cost of my launch Roamio Pro with Lifetime service. Although if I had waited several months I could have paid much less for my Roamio Pro. But I've always purchased new TiVos when they are first released. So I don't mind paying retail price as long as the sale of my older TiVos covers most of the cost.

And the best thing is that I'm finally down to only one cable card. I have the Roamio Pro on FiOS and two TiVos Minis. Plus I have a Roamio Basic for OTA only.

When I had five TiVos on FiOS, I had eight cable cards at that point. Six cable cards in three Series 3 TiVos(the OLED display TiVos) and two cable cards in two TiVo HD boxes. But the cable cards were also $2.99 each back then.


sivran
Vive Vivaldi
Premium
join:2003-09-15
Irving, TX
kudos:1
said by aaronwt:

My GF still has two of my old S3 TiVos. They have been running basically 24/7/365 since December 2006 without issues.

I find that hard to believe considering how Tivos treat their hard drives. You must've replaced the hard drives three or four times by now.
--
Oh, Opera, what have you done?


aaronwt
Premium
join:2004-11-07
Woodbridge, VA

4 edits
said by sivran:

said by aaronwt:

My GF still has two of my old S3 TiVos. They have been running basically 24/7/365 since December 2006 without issues.

I find that hard to believe considering how Tivos treat their hard drives. You must've replaced the hard drives three or four times by now.

When I got the S3 boxes in 2006 I immediately replaced the stock 250GB hard drives with 500GB drives. Then in February 2007, when the first 1TB, 5 platter hard drives came out, I bought three of them and put them in the S3 boxes. So those two S3 boxes my GF has now have been running an old hitachi, 5 platter, 1TB drives for seven years now with zero issues. The only thing I ever did was blow out the dust from the inside every year or so. But I have not done that since I gave her those S3 boxes in 2010.

That is nothing unusual. My DirecTV TiVos I upgraded in 2001, i gave to friends in 2005/2006 and they continued using them for at least five more years. Those hard drives ran for ten years bascally 24/7 with no issues. They might even still be using those DirecTV TiVos. I'm not sure though. I haven't asked about them in a few years.

I've used well over 200 hard drives over the last 13 years with rarely an issue. It's been unsual for me to have a hard drive issue once put into service. Although I did have issues with several new drives over the years, but they were brand new and initial testing found issues. And there was the one time I broke the power port on new hard drive. But that was user error.

I''m currently using around 75 hard drives in my unRAID servers, NAS devices, PCs etc. There are rarely issues. But with the TiVos I have not upgraded a TiVo hard drive in around three years now. I've only been running the stock hard drives since the sizes now match my needs unlike in the past.


Sixto
Premium
join:2005-09-16
Northeast
reply to ITALIAN926

Re: TIVO or FiOS DVR

My view of Roamio: »forums.solidsignal.com/showthrea···rvations

It and FiOS. Awesome.

crgauth

join:2004-05-18
Glen Burnie, MD
kudos:1
reply to ITALIAN926
No one has taken in to account the fact that you also get VOD with FIOS STB. Not even counting PPV, but all of the free content for the channels you subscribe to.

BiggA

join:2005-11-23
EARTH
reply to Thinkdiff

Re: Here comes the Router rental fee of $4.99

Are they charging for even SD STBs? That seems like a complete scam, as they are saying that it's impossible to actually get the service that they are advertising at the price they are advertising it. Comcast breaks the equipment and programming fees up really weird so that they only have to give you like a $2.75 credit, but at least it's something...

BiggA

join:2005-11-23
EARTH
reply to crgauth

Re: TIVO or FiOS DVR

Big whoop. My XFinity OnDemand on TiVo stops working randomly, and I don't really miss it. Nice to have sort of, but not essential. Verizon should, however, support TiVo for VOD. It's really rotten that they refuse to support it while Comcast fully supports it.


Thinkdiff
Premium,MVM
join:2001-08-07
Bronx, NY
kudos:11
reply to BiggA

Re: Here comes the Router rental fee of $4.99

said by BiggA:

Are they charging for even SD STBs?

Verizon charges for all STBs. You can receive local channels via ClearQAM without a STB or CableCARD - that's it.

Most cable companies are the same way, nothing new.
--
University of Southern California - Fight On!


Thinkdiff
Premium,MVM
join:2001-08-07
Bronx, NY
kudos:11
reply to crgauth

Re: TIVO or FiOS DVR

said by crgauth:

No one has taken in to account the fact that you also get VOD with FIOS STB. Not even counting PPV, but all of the free content for the channels you subscribe to.

When you have a DVR that works really well and records suggestions based on previous viewing, you'd probably find yourself using VoD very infrequently. I've been using TiVos since 2001 on DirecTV and even when I have a cable-provided STB with VOD, I don't use it (I've had Comcast, Time Warner and FiOS boxes). I just record everything I might want to watch using season passes, and if I don't like it, I delete it. If there's something I missed, then the season pass will record it the next time its available automatically. Or for in-season network shows, you can usually get them online via the network's website.

I also had Comcast VOD available on my TiVo up to a few weeks ago, and I used it maybe two or three times. Only to watch HBO content that was available via HBO GO anyway. I was just too lazy to switch to my AppleTV.
--
University of Southern California - Fight On!

bsangs

join:2002-08-21
Montclair, NJ
kudos:1
Reviews:
·Verizon FiOS
said by Thinkdiff:

I was just too lazy to switch to my AppleTV.

Warms my heart to know there are others out there just as lazy as me sometimes.

BiggA

join:2005-11-23
EARTH
reply to Thinkdiff

Re: Here comes the Router rental fee of $4.99

Weird. That seems like it should be illegal, but not surprisingly, isn't. An SD box is usually included with cable service, then an upgrade charge to HD. Comcast has a really weird system, as some areas charge an HD programming fee, some an HD equipment fee. Luckily, my area is an HD equipment fee, and since I have the TiVo, I don't have to pay it, plus I get the $2.75 credit for not having the SD box, so the cable card costs me -$2.75 in total, compared to something like $18/mo for an HD DVR.


joe01880

join:2007-10-26
Wakefield, MA

3 edits
reply to ITALIAN926

Re: TIVO or FiOS DVR

said by ITALIAN926:

Youre kidding, please tell me youre kidding. The FiOS MultiRoom DVR is an awesome thing. Ive never had a Tivo

The only reasons you have such mislead thoughts are because indeed you have never owned a TiVo.

Putting the cost aside, TiVo is a far superior product (IMO) to that of the Verizon DVR. I say this having had a FiOS DVR (currently the 7232-2) since 2007 and been a TiVo customer in one form or another for a very long time.
One does not have to lay out $1100 to enjoy a TiVo as has been pointed out already, I do not have that kind of cash laying around yet I now own 3 TiVos with a new Roamio Pro on the way. As for longevity I have an old working series 2 waiting for the day I require its services again, just plugged it in the other day to see if it still works, it does. My other 2 TiVo's, a THD and a Premiere have never given me any real trouble outside of a slightly noisy fan I replaced myself.

OP, you should give TiVo a try, you may really like it!

Think of the Verizon DVR being a Japanese Bike, it looks like a Harley, but its not a Harley.

The Vz DVR's try to do the same thing as a TiVo, but they are not TiVo's

BiggA

join:2005-11-23
EARTH
Exactly. TiVo is awesome. The Roamio Pro is $1100, the Regular Roamio is only $700, and the Plus is somewhere inbetween...