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This is a sub-selection from What is the catch


TAZ

join:2014-01-03
Tucson, AZ
kudos:3

1 recommendation

reply to GFiber user

Re: What is the catch

said by GFiber user :

Citation please? We have been told in KC it is dedicated single mode from the hut to the house. From the hut to the backbone it is multiplexed 32 way on one fiber. Each user has a dedicated virtual circuit on the 32 way split.

The last mile may be dedicated, but beyond there, it is not. I've seen various claims about the last mile technology used. Some claim it's WDM-PON, others claim it's straight-up GigE to each user over a dedicated strand. Since WDM-PON isn't really mature at this point, I'm inclined to believe it's the latter.

Within their network, they do not have 1 Gbps of capacity for every user. It's aggregated and they don't need that amount of capacity. If they actually had it, the price would be more like $2000-$3000/mo. at best, and that's assuming the savings of high commits would be passed on. (Well, technically, the commits wouldn't be very high if that was the offering. :P)


DataRiker
Premium
join:2002-05-19
00000

3 edits
said by TAZ:

The last mile may be dedicated

Its aggregated at the backbone edge router, which is the best kind of dedicated you can get for general access.

You seem to think a dedicated connection means to every computer on the internet.


TAZ

join:2014-01-03
Tucson, AZ
kudos:3
said by DataRiker:

You seem to think a dedicated connection means to every computer on the internet.

No.

Does Google have 1 Gbps * number of customers to Level 3, who I understand is their upstream for GFiber? (Hint: no)


DataRiker
Premium
join:2002-05-19
00000
said by TAZ:

said by DataRiker:

You seem to think a dedicated connection means to every computer on the internet.

No.

Does Google have 1 Gbps * number of customers to Level 3, who I understand is their upstream for GFiber? (Hint: no)

As long as we understand users are getting a dedicated connection I don't care how you spin it.

Upgrading edge routers is easy. Upgrading the last mile is not. If and when Google needs capacity it can easily be upgraded.

That difference is spectacularly significant, and your attempt to minimize it is both obvious and sad.


TAZ

join:2014-01-03
Tucson, AZ
kudos:3

2 edits
said by DataRiker:

Upgrading edge routers is easy. Upgrading the last mile is not. If and when Google needs capacity it can easily be upgraded.

Sure. Just like DSL in fact.

said by DataRiker:

That difference is spectacularly significant, and your attempt to minimize it is both obvious and sad.

What are you talking about?

BTW, I'm pro-GFiber; you seem to think this is some attack on it. It's not. There's nothing wrong with any of this. This is simply how residential connections are (and that's good because otherwise the cost would be significantly higher).

I'm responding to this:

said by RWSI:

In our world $3 dollars a meg is the real cost for a true connection.

He's referring to dedicated circuits where capacity is actually reserved within the ISP's network. Indeed, those could be in the $3/Mbps (95th-percentile) range. (Of course, it all varies depending on who the ISP is, as well as commits. Premium carriers would be within that area while bulk/lower-end carriers are more in the $1 area.)

GFiber is a residential service. The last mile capacity is dedicated, just as DSL is (does anyone want to make that comparison?), but within their network it's not. In fact I'm willing to bet the access layer itself is oversubscribed.

And that's why GFiber has AUP restrictions on things like servers (with the "home server" exception), while this $3/Mbps dedicated circuit we're speaking of does not.


DataRiker
Premium
join:2002-05-19
00000
said by TAZ:

Sure. Just like DSL in fact.

Almost. I used to work on DSL. On our newest VDSL you are aggregated before the edge router with all of our xDSL at the co-location, and then sent via fiber to another co-location with backbone. ( really depends on your area )

xDSL customers had it worse. Almost all of our line cards were failing and ancient, which means we cram them full. Definitely way oversold before the edge.

That combined with the fact that the vast majority of our xDSL customers received less than 3.0 mbit/s would make for a bad comparison.

This myth really came about because xDSL was never really oversold to the extent of cable simply because it under delivered by a wide margin.

You definitely see wild shifts in speeds on xDSL these days with our setup.


TAZ

join:2014-01-03
Tucson, AZ
kudos:3
said by DataRiker:

Almost. I used to work on DSL. On our newest VDSL you are aggregated before the edge router with all of our xDSL at the co-location, and then sent via fiber to another co-location with backbone. ( really depends on your area )

But I'm not referring to that. I'm referring specifically to the customer circuit. DSL is dedicated in that aspect, and so is GFiber with dedicated GigE runs to each user. (In other words, point-to-point networks.)

It's of course possible for the access layer uplinks to be congested (happens all the time, in fact), but that is the same whether we're talking about DSL or GFiber. I suspect GFiber has ample capacity going to their access switches, so this isn't likely to be an issue, but the same can apply for properly-managed DSL.

said by DataRiker:

xDSL customers had it worse. Almost all of our line cards were failing and ancient, which means we cram them full. Definitely way oversold before the edge.

I assume by "line card" you're referring to a DSLAM chassis as a whole.

DSLAM uplinks being congested happens, but that's an issue with poor network management.

said by DataRiker:

This myth really came about because xDSL was never really oversold to the extent of cable simply because it under delivered by a wide margin.

It's not really a myth, it's just creative advertising. Telcos like to use it in their DSL vs. cable attack ads. It's technically true in that (as we've established) the DSL circuit is dedicated (a point-to-point connection) while a cable network is point-to-multipoint and hence shared between everyone on the node. They just conveniently forget to mention the access layer (i.e. the DSLAM) is still oversubscribed.

said by DataRiker:

You definitely see wild shifts in speeds on xDSL these days with our setup.

Not all DSL setups are like this.

CenturyLink out here has the same "two tier" setup. Their GigE-fed ADSL2+/VDSL2 DSLAMs are never congested (they're oversubscribed, but reasonably), but customers still on T1 or DS3-fed DSLAMs aren't as lucky and there's tons of complaints in the CL forum.