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codydog

join:2001-11-29
Newport, RI

Verizon's supposed response on a netflix question

Someone on my twitter feed posted this, so, don't know how legit it is, but here you go

»davesblog.com/images/verizon_fail.png



Thaler
Premium
join:2004-02-02
Los Angeles, CA
kudos:3

Here's the source article as well: »davesblog.com/blog/2014/02/05/ve···netflix/



cob_
1310nm Of Goodness
Premium
join:2003-07-08
Tulsa, OK
reply to codydog

Will wait for all the facts to be revealed, but if this is due to residential throttling, I am shocked that they are actually taking this step. They have to realize this will inevitably push the FCC to label them as common carriers and put a stop to this nonsense.


navyson

join:2011-07-15
Upper Marlboro, MD
reply to codydog

I have been using Netflix on Verizon FIOS for many years now. Never had a problem streaming everything in HD. However, starting a few weeks ago, basically nothing streams in HD anymore on Netlfix. Amazon Prime streams in HD all the time with no problems.

This reminds me of the youtube issue on FIOS last year which seems to have been solved.


norm

join:2012-10-18
Pittsburgh, PA
Reviews:
·Verizon FiOS

said by navyson:

I have been using Netflix on Verizon FIOS for many years now. Never had a problem streaming everything in HD. However, starting a few weeks ago, basically nothing streams in HD anymore on Netlfix. Amazon Prime streams in HD all the time with no problems.

This reminds me of the youtube issue on FIOS last year which seems to have been solved.

Believe it or not, Verizon actually has a massive amount of Google cache servers on its network in addition to now providing transit for Google. This all happened a few weeks before the new google video quality website came out.

flashcore

join:2007-01-23
united state

said by norm:

Believe it or not, Verizon actually has a massive amount of Google cache servers on its network in addition to now providing transit for Google. This all happened a few weeks before the new google video quality website came out.

You do not need to say believe it or not, a simple traceroute shows the proof. For those who wont look it up on their own alter.net is Verizon Business so the traffic never leaves the Verizon network until it gets passed off directly to Google.

 1  firewall-1.home.local (192.168.1.1)  0.208 ms  0.194 ms  0.187 ms
 2  l100.bltmmd-vfttp-14.verizon-gni.net (72.81.130.1)  2.602 ms  2.762 ms  2.94               2 ms
 3  g0-5-2-4.bltmmd-lcr-22.verizon-gni.net (130.81.49.2)  4.933 ms  4.929 ms  4.               922 ms
 4  ae20-0.phil-bb-rtr2.verizon-gni.net (130.81.151.124)  67.719 ms ae1-0.phil-b               b-rtr1.verizon-gni.net (130.81.209.238)  7.459 ms  10.228 ms
 5  * 0.xe-10-2-0.xl1.iad8.alter.net (152.63.41.158)  17.325 ms  17.470 ms
 6  0.xe-10-2-1.gw9.iad8.alter.net (152.63.41.242)  8.558 ms 0.xe-11-1-1.gw9.iad               8.alter.net (152.63.35.121)  12.669 ms 0.xe-10-2-1.gw9.iad8.alter.net (152.63.41               .242)  8.580 ms
 7  google-gw.customer.alter.net (152.179.50.70)  12.334 ms  13.163 ms *
 8  * 209.85.252.80 (209.85.252.80)  10.962 ms  9.869 ms
 9  72.14.238.253 (72.14.238.253)  10.531 ms  10.526 ms  9.072 ms
10  iad23s08-in-f16.1e100.net (74.125.228.112)  9.806 ms  9.804 ms  9.774 ms
 


Karl Bode
News Guy
join:2000-03-02
kudos:38

1 recommendation

reply to codydog

I asked Verizon about this and got this statement, which they're providing to the press:

quote:
"We treat all traffic equally, and that has not changed. Many factors can affect the speed a customer's experiences for a specific site, including, that site's servers, the way the traffic is routed over the Internet, and other considerations. We are looking into this specific matter, but the company representative was mistaken. We we're going to redouble our representative education efforts on this topic."
I believe this is just peering congestion at peak time, though I'm waiting for more detail.


destroyah

join:2005-04-20
Norwalk, CA

2 recommendations

reply to codydog

I will be following this thread closely. I'm on the west coast in the LA county area, and the past couple of weeks have been horrible on netflix, and sometimes on youtube too. This is exactly what I was worried about when the neutrality law was repealed.

Hopefully Verizon comes through and makes sure their "premium product" does not become useless to the majority of their users for streaming "legal" content, otherwise I can see a huge return to piracy for those who know how.
--
--50/25 FIOS ~ 58.36D--36.52U--



Thinkdiff
Premium,MVM
join:2001-08-07
Bronx, NY
kudos:11

1 recommendation

reply to Karl Bode

said by Karl Bode:

quote:
Many factors can affect the speed a customer's experiences for a specific site, including, that site's servers, the way the traffic is routed over the Internet, and other considerations.
I believe this is just peering congestion at peak time, though I'm waiting for more detail.

"Other considerations"... The sad part is all the media attention this story is getting is focused on the ramblings of a single guy inferring his bad speeds are due to throttling and an uninformed CSR telling him what he wants to hear to get on to the next person. It's easy for Verizon to say "no, we don't throttle" and put out a vague denial, just as they did. The real issue should be the "other considerations" of letting their peering links get saturated and doing nothing to fix it. This has nothing to do with net neutrality.
--
University of Southern California - Fight On!

guppy_fish
Premium
join:2003-12-09
Lakeland, FL
kudos:1
Reviews:
·Verizon FiOS
reply to codydog

Complete Hogwash

This is nothing more than Verizon enforcing its current contracts for peering.

If company's like Cogent wants to take Netflix dollars and "provide" transit for 1/10th the cost of someone else, fine, but guess what, that company is not going to have anywhere to push the data too as your not providing any benefit to your peer points.

Either you peer symmetric traffic for free or you pay the transit cost, that's how the internet works.



ITALIAN926

join:2003-08-16
kudos:2
Reviews:
·Verizon FiOS
reply to codydog

When I signed up for Netflix for a month, just for Breaking Bad, I usually had issues between 7 and 10pm. Scheduled my viewing around these times.

I didnt really cancel due to this isssue, I cancelled because their movie selection is atrocious. If youre into B movies, get Netflix !



Geot

@verizon.net
reply to Karl Bode

said by Karl Bode:

the company representative was mistaken. We we're going to redouble our representative education efforts on this topic.

Rather than fix or even admit to a problem, lets make sure we get our employees all singing the company line. Classic!


inajeep4

join:2004-11-07
Sewell, NJ
reply to codydog

HD streaming via Netflix has been particularly bad these last few weeks.



aaronwt
Premium
join:2004-11-07
Woodbridge, VA

said by inajeep4:

HD streaming via Netflix has been particularly bad these last few weeks.

I have had some issues recently where i would only get the 4800kbps SuperHD streams instead of the top 5800kbps SuperHD streams. But that has been typically during the busiest time of the evening. But otherwise when not during peak periods it ramps up to the top 5800kps Super HD streams in 10 or 15 seconds.


anonomeX

@comcast.net
reply to ITALIAN926

For finding good stuff on Netflix, instantwatcher.com is your friend.


PJL

join:2008-07-24
Long Beach, CA
kudos:2
reply to aaronwt

said by aaronwt:

5800kbps SuperHD

Wow. I was curious what the stream is. FYI a typical Blu-ray disk puts out 25-35 mbps -- far above that. And the stream from Vudu usually runs above 20 mbps. I'm just observing...

promisic

join:2013-10-13
19210

3 edits

2 recommendations

reply to guppy_fish

I do not agree with you.

It is Verizon customers that request Netflix content. Cogent or Level 3 takes content from Netflix to Verizon network then Verizon terminates that traffic for it's own customers. See the connection???

You pay Verizon for your Internet service and for Netflix.
Netflix pays Level 3 or Cogent to deliver content to subscriber's ISP networks and subscriber's ISP network is responsible to deliver content to end user!

This is pure greed on Verizon's part, because you already paid for your Internet access and your Netflix content. Verizon wants some dollar more .... but from Cogent/Level 3 to deliver content to its own customers which is PURE greed! Like a silent extortion.

Proof that Verizon is deliberately letting traffic pile up: just use your LTE phone as hotspot or USB tether and if Netflix works, then ... yea you get it!

If you can, switch providers ....


promisic

join:2013-10-13
19210
reply to guppy_fish

Plus there is no transit cost because end users are Verizon's own customers! Verizon is accepting content for IT'S OWN CUSTOMERS!



aaronwt
Premium
join:2004-11-07
Woodbridge, VA
reply to PJL

said by PJL:

said by aaronwt:

5800kbps SuperHD

Wow. I was curious what the stream is. FYI a typical Blu-ray disk puts out 25-35 mbps -- far above that. And the stream from Vudu usually runs above 20 mbps. I'm just observing...

The top VUDU bitrate averages around 9Mb/s. The peaks reach close to 20Mb/s but the average is much lower.

promisic

join:2013-10-13
19210
reply to codydog

Good reading material on this topic:

»www.slashgear.com/new-internet-t···316242/?


PJL

join:2008-07-24
Long Beach, CA
kudos:2
reply to aaronwt

said by aaronwt:

The top VUDU bitrate averages around 9Mb/s. The peaks reach close to 20Mb/s but the average is much lower.

That's roughly what I'm seeing, depending on the amount of actions or frame-to-frame changes.


matcarl
Premium
join:2007-03-09
Franklin Square, NY

Verizon dropped a spot in the new Netflix speed rankings

»multichannel.com/distribution/ve···s/148228



nycdave
Premium,MVM
join:1999-11-16
Melville, NY
kudos:14

Yea, since they lump in DSL with FiOS....



Nick5

@verizon.net

said by nycdave:

Yea, since they lump in DSL with FiOS....

But they don't...

»ispspeedindex.netflix.com/usa


Thinkdiff
Premium,MVM
join:2001-08-07
Bronx, NY
kudos:11

1 edit
reply to nycdave

Click for full size
said by nycdave:

Yea, since they lump in DSL with FiOS....

Right from the article...
quote:
Verizon DSL, with an average streaming speed of 970 kbps, fell one spot to find itself in last place, behind Clearwire and its average of 990 kbps. Verizon FiOS also dropped a spot, to number 7, with an average of 1.81 Mbps, off from the 2.11 Mbps average posted by Netflix in December.
Edit: While some other major providers have been steadily improving their average, Verizon has dropped off both for DSL and Fiber. Other providers have also dropped off too (Comcast, Charter, AT&T, etc). But they do break out DSL vs Fiber.

--
University of Southern California - Fight On!


KrK
Heavy Artillery For The Little Guy
Premium
join:2000-01-17
Tulsa, OK

1 recommendation

reply to cob_

It's not throttling in the deliberate regard. More it's oversaturated Verizon controlled caching servers and peering links.... by not maintaining adequate caching server capacity and bandwidth and allowing peering links to be over capacity streaming becomes much degraded.

So it's not throttling via a deliberate throttling plan, it's throttling via not upgrading your equipment and network to handle demand. End result to the user is the same.
--
"Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the merger of state and corporate power." -- Benito Mussolini



Nick5

@verizon.net

I'm wondering if Verizon will decide to put their peering dispute on ice with all this talk about throttling. This press can't be good for them as they lobby for looser (read:no) Net Neutrality regulation. Today's greedy Verizon should take care not to get in the way of tomorrow's greedy Verizon.


promisic

join:2013-10-13
19210

My opinion is: NO. Verizon will only change if and ONLY if it's customers put enormous pressure on it to change and resolve peering disputes.

I think most of you will appreciate more if Verizon settles (most) peering disputes and keeps its customers happy than give you speed increase for the same price with no full ability to use that speed the way you want it to!

Do you agree with me on that???



birdfeedr
Premium,MVM
join:2001-08-11
Warwick, RI
kudos:9

2 recommendations

said by promisic :

I think most of you will appreciate more if Verizon settles (most) peering disputes and keeps its customers happy than give you speed increase for the same price with no full ability to use that speed the way you want it to!

VZ will do neither.

The problem of changing how peering works and is paid for is not going to be resolved quickly. There is too much inertia. That's the way it's always been.

To settle the peering dispute will require a tier 2 provider to pay overage costs to the tier 1 provider. VZ is waiting for level3 or cogent to pony up the bucks. For that to happen Netflix will have to pony up the bucks. That's the way the peering dispute will get settled.

As for VZ giving you a speed upgrade for the same price: dream on. Except for one instance, speed increases always come with a price increase. VZ is smart though, they offer a discount to offset the increase, but it's like the local crack dealer. The first one's free, and boy do you pay for it.

guppy_fish
Premium
join:2003-12-09
Lakeland, FL
kudos:1
Reviews:
·Verizon FiOS
reply to codydog

To add to what birdfeedr wrote, very well:

The issue is there are networks that are not tier 1 NOW that for some reason managed to get tier 1 status years ago. Cogent is the poster child of this, they have become a primary Netflix CDN, but in doing so have made their traffic non-tier 1 which requires data be balanced for both send and receive.

So the true tier 1 like Verizon and ATT which for all practical purposes ARE the internet have simply said they are enforcing the legally signed peering contracts, that's it. Cry baby all you want, that's how business work.

Verizon isn't going to budge, neither will any of the other true tier 1 providers. Either the companies getting the revenue from Netflix traffic start paying for using up close to 50% of the internet traffic, or Netflix can connect directly to ATT, Verizon and others, paying the connection charges as any business will and end of problem. Cogent just been gaming the system and that is now over.