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PX Eliezer1
Premium Member
join:2013-03-10
Zubrowka USA

PX Eliezer1 to OldMember

Premium Member

to OldMember

Re: HP to begin charging for firmware updates and service packs for servers

Firmware updates and/or service packs, are inherent admissions by a manufacturer that their product is defective.

Right?

Microsoft and others have brainwashed us into thinking this is "normal".

It's not.

For HP to charge for fixing defective products is outrageous.

With what HP has become in recent years, if William Hewlett and David Packard were alive today they would demand that their names be removed....
dave
Premium Member
join:2000-05-04
not in ohio

1 recommendation

dave

Premium Member

said by PX Eliezer1:

Microsoft and others have brainwashed us into thinking this is "normal".

I take it you weren't applying the monthly RSTS/E patch tapes in the 1970s, then?

Don't kid yourself: software's always been not-quite-right.You can't blame Microsoft for inventing that. The only difference now is that it's a little more urgent since most software is internet-facing. Well, that and civilians (i.e., non-computer people) are using it.

Snowy
Lock him up!!!
Premium Member
join:2003-04-05
Kailua, HI

Snowy

Premium Member

said by dave:

... Well, that and civilians (i.e., non-computer people) are using it.

That's a valid point.
When an understanding of iptables was replaced with a point & click access the game was changed forever.
Personally, I believe when HP dumped Carly Fiorina they kick started their road to mediocrity.

NormanS
I gave her time to steal my mind away
MVM
join:2001-02-14
San Jose, CA
TP-Link TD-8616
Asus RT-AC66U B1
Netgear FR114P

1 recommendation

NormanS to PX Eliezer1

MVM

to PX Eliezer1
said by PX Eliezer1:

With what HP has become in recent years, if William Hewlett and David Packard were alive today they would demand that their names be removed....

Those of us old timers, who worked there in the days of "Dave and Bill" (as we called them), were disappointed when HP spun off the original core business (Instruments) as, "Agilent Technologies", while keeping the name, "Hewlett Packard" on the upstart computer business; should have been the other way around.
NormanS

1 recommendation

NormanS to Snowy

MVM

to Snowy
said by Snowy:

Personally, I believe when HP dumped Carly Fiorina they kick started their road to mediocrity.

Trust me, the mediocrity was already evident when HP brought Carly Fiorina in.

Blackbird
Built for Speed
Premium Member
join:2005-01-14
Fort Wayne, IN

Blackbird to NormanS

Premium Member

to NormanS
said by NormanS:

said by PX Eliezer1:

With what HP has become in recent years, if William Hewlett and David Packard were alive today they would demand that their names be removed....

Those of us old timers, who worked there in the days of "Dave and Bill" (as we called them), were disappointed when HP spun off the original core business (Instruments) as, "Agilent Technologies", while keeping the name, "Hewlett Packard" on the upstart computer business; should have been the other way around.

Ahh... the golden era of solid test equipment like the HP612 and HP614 RF generators. Built like tanks, but longer lasting. I was using a 612 in 1998 for some L-band tests, and it had been in steady service in that lab since the early 1960's. Just an occasional visit to the cal lab for a touch up and back to work they went again. Later came the HP86xx series - just as durable, but more stable and easier to use. All of that back in a time before HP responded to the mystical lure of "computers" and let it all slip away... Oh, how the mighty are fallen.

Hank
Searching for a new Frontier
Premium Member
join:2002-05-21
Burlington, WV
ARRIS NVG443B
Ubiquiti NanoStation loco M2

Hank to NormanS

Premium Member

to NormanS
said by NormanS:

mediocrity was already evident when HP brought Carly Fiorina in.

As a former HP customer and employee you are correct, but there were a few after that who where much worse.

therube
join:2004-11-11
Randallstown, MD

therube

Member

Our Texas Instruments computer system had paid hardware & software support.
Seem to recall that being a couple thousand per year.
But then the computer was $20K, not $300.

And paid support was the norm for all systems at the time.

And support they gave.
If there was a problem, there was a man out - that day.
Even if they knew they couldn't fix the problem that day, even if they were overnighting parts, they still sent the man.

So they're not really doing anything new, they're just returning to what they've always done. Now doing that on a $300 machine... Well if you're an Enterprise customer & you have 1000 of those machines is one thing. But if you have one or two in your office, to me, that's something else again.

Buy a motherboard for $50, you get "lifetime" updates. No "support", necessarily, but as they tweak & find & fix, you can download updates, for free. (But updates only last so long, given the short lifespan of a particular hardware series. They're not fixing anything "for you", but as a normal course of their business r&d, you get the fixes.)
MaynardKrebs
We did it. We heaved Steve. Yipee.
Premium Member
join:2009-06-17

2 recommendations

MaynardKrebs to Snowy

Premium Member

to Snowy
said by Snowy:

Personally, I believe when HP dumped Carly Fiorina they kick started their road to mediocrity.

Wrong. Their road to mediocrity started the day they HIRED Fiorina.

OldMember
@comcast.net

OldMember to therube

Anon

to therube
said by therube:

So they're not really doing anything new, they're just returning to what they've always done. Now doing that on a $300 machine... Well if you're an Enterprise customer & you have 1000 of those machines is one thing. But if you have one or two in your office, to me, that's something else again.

Buy a motherboard for $50, you get "lifetime" updates. No "support", necessarily, but as they tweak & find & fix, you can download updates, for free. (But updates only last so long, given the short lifespan of a particular hardware series. They're not fixing anything "for you", but as a normal course of their business r&d, you get the fixes.)

The following scenario from the article is typical of the types of issues you can run into that requires a firmware fix, except now you'll pay for that fix.
said by »www.zdnet.com/hp-to-begi ··· 0026110/ :
The HP ProLiant MicroServer N40L, for example, was available for sale in 2012 at heavily discounted prices from online sellers, typically under $300. But this widely used server, which contains four drive bays in a compact box that is well under 1 cubic foot, wouldn’t run Windows Server 2012 R2 (or, for that matter, Windows 8.1) for months after their release to manufacturing. Windows Server 2012 R2 was released to MSDN and TechNet subscribers in September 2013 and was generally available in October 2013. But trying to install that OS on a ProLiant MicroServer resulted in a series of errors, with the system hanging at boot. The only workaround was to disable the built-in Gigabit Ethernet controller, a serious limitation for a server.

HP released a firmware fix for the issue in mid-November, 2013. The ProLiant MicroServer N54L, a later version of the N40L with a beefier processor in the same enclosure, suffered from the same flaw, fixed with a firmware update at the same time.

..Under the new policy, access to the firmware after the warranty expires would require the purchase of an HP Care Pack, at current prices of between $126 and $200, at least half the cost of the original hardware. That’s a hefty price to pay to fix what is arguably a defect in the original product.
That's almost ransom to me. You're okay with that, therube See Profile ?

therube
join:2004-11-11
Randallstown, MD

therube

Member

No, not really.
But unless everyone goes to that model, you still have choices.

So what kind of price can I get on 1,000 HP "servers" with 3-years support included?
And what kind of price can I get for similar from Dell?

If HP is priced lower including "support", then it doesn't matter.
Otherwise I can go with Dell, at a lower price, with support included, "free".

If HP is overpriced, then they've priced themselves out of the market.

The box doesn't matter.
There's nothing magical about HP. It's just a box.

If I'm a onesie twosiey & I know I'm going to have to layout $$ for "support", then the same way. How much is the box+support vs. Dell's box, support included? Whichever method works out to my advantage is how I'm going.

Or I can decide I'll do without support, like will happen with XP.

OldMember
@comcast.net

OldMember

Anon

said by therube:

No, not really.
But unless everyone goes to that model, you still have choices.

I agree there are choices, and the choice will not be to purchase support on units that I would not have before, but go with someone else. Someone who wouldn't expect me to purchase a fix for something that should have worked as purchased.

Unfortunately, I have many HP units currently in place now. We're a shoe-string business, like many are these days. When you need a fix of this kind, it's many times a pressured situation to get it resolved. I don't believe it's hyperbole to call it ransom to expect hundreds of dollars to get the fix needed.

The fact that HP would pull this on their business customers is a sorry move. While HP might think they are bringing in revenue on forcing support, they sure will lose customers, and some long-standing. Not only over the money, but the quality of their brand which was once linked to quality business systems.
SpHeRe31459
Premium Member
join:2002-10-09
Sacramento, CA

SpHeRe31459

Premium Member

said by OldMember :

The fact that HP would pull this on their business customers is a sorry move. While HP might think they are bringing in revenue on forcing support, they sure will lose customers, and some long-standing. Not only over the money, but the quality of their brand which was once linked to quality business systems.

Yep, it smells of desperation and shows a total lack of class or courtesy when it comes to their business/enterprise customers. I thought biz stuff was the higher margin equipment, no? so then why nickel and dime business-class users like a cheap consumer PC user who gets charged $20 for OS restore discs.

OldMember
@comcast.net

OldMember

Anon

said by SpHeRe31459:

said by OldMember :

The fact that HP would pull this on their business customers is a sorry move. While HP might think they are bringing in revenue on forcing support, they sure will lose customers, and some long-standing. Not only over the money, but the quality of their brand which was once linked to quality business systems.

Yep, it smells of desperation and shows a total lack of class or courtesy to their business/enterprise customers.

Exactly.