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edugas
join:2004-03-18
H2K

edugas to pstewart

Member

to pstewart

Re: Indie ISP Peering -- Something to consider?

I always forget how HE is also dirt cheap.

We're actually connected at TorIX (we don't even peer with Nexicom *cough cough*, NYIIX and QIX and the price is 40-50% cheaper per Mbps than with TATA/Telia/GT-T at either 151 Front or 60 Hudson.

pstewart
Premium Member
join:2005-10-12
Peterborough, ON

pstewart

Premium Member

said by edugas:

I always forget how HE is also dirt cheap.

We're actually connected at TorIX (we don't even peer with Nexicom *cough cough*, NYIIX and QIX and the price is 40-50% cheaper per Mbps than with TATA/Telia/GT-T at either 151 Front or 60 Hudson.

Hey, we should setup peering then!

For the pricing, I was just talking average per say .. even within some providers the pricing can vary greatly which is always surprising to me.

Canaca
Premium Member
join:2007-03-05
Mississauga, ON

1 edit

Canaca to JimBee

Premium Member

to JimBee
We have over 40Gbps of extra capacity on the upload side. I am sure we can even beat HE on pricing At least on the upload.

So here is the deal. $3.00 per Mbps download and 25 cents per Mbps upload:)

openvz_ca
join:2008-12-13
canada

openvz_ca to pstewart

Member

to pstewart
said by pstewart:

said by edugas:

I always forget how HE is also dirt cheap.

We're actually connected at TorIX (we don't even peer with Nexicom *cough cough*, NYIIX and QIX and the price is 40-50% cheaper per Mbps than with TATA/Telia/GT-T at either 151 Front or 60 Hudson.

Hey, we should setup peering then!

For the pricing, I was just talking average per say .. even within some providers the pricing can vary greatly which is always surprising to me.

Yeah, depends on the location. If you're off-net you're basically at their mercy. A somewhat competitive carrier neutral location is better and a place like Cologix 3 where everyone and their mother are on net you can haggle a bit more.

But if you're in a place like HE.net's Fremont facility they'll drop their pants and pay you for bandwidth!
openvz_ca

openvz_ca to edugas

Member

to edugas
said by edugas:

5% of the 20% will understand that at 2$ per Mbps you'll only get Cogent routes and a middle man to deal with in case of problems..

FWIW, connectivity with Cogent always adds value to a mix due to the shier amount of AS's they're connected to. We buy transit from them but only accept their customer routes and we've never had congestion issues within their network. It's the over-committed peering links some routes go over you need to route around. But it's to be expected for the price.

pstewart
Premium Member
join:2005-10-12
Peterborough, ON

pstewart to Canaca

Premium Member

to Canaca
said by Canaca:

We have over 40Gbps of extra capacity on the upload side. I am sure we can even beat HE on pricing At least on the upload.

So here is the deal. $3.00 per Mbps download and 25 cents per Mbps upload:)

HE generates it's pricing on selling a fairly balanced ratio. They attract eyeball networks but also content delivery on another.

Let me know if you're remotely serious on giving away 40Gbps of upload capacity and I'll help you out
pstewart

pstewart to openvz_ca

Premium Member

to openvz_ca
said by openvz_ca:

said by pstewart:

said by edugas:

I always forget how HE is also dirt cheap.

We're actually connected at TorIX (we don't even peer with Nexicom *cough cough*, NYIIX and QIX and the price is 40-50% cheaper per Mbps than with TATA/Telia/GT-T at either 151 Front or 60 Hudson.

Hey, we should setup peering then!

For the pricing, I was just talking average per say .. even within some providers the pricing can vary greatly which is always surprising to me.

Yeah, depends on the location. If you're off-net you're basically at their mercy. A somewhat competitive carrier neutral location is better and a place like Cologix 3 where everyone and their mother are on net you can haggle a bit more.

But if you're in a place like HE.net's Fremont facility they'll drop their pants and pay you for bandwidth!

Correct me if I'm wrong - Cologix 3 = 1250 Rene Levesque?
pstewart

pstewart to openvz_ca

Premium Member

to openvz_ca
said by openvz_ca:

said by edugas:

5% of the 20% will understand that at 2$ per Mbps you'll only get Cogent routes and a middle man to deal with in case of problems..

FWIW, connectivity with Cogent always adds value to a mix due to the shier amount of AS's they're connected to. We buy transit from them but only accept their customer routes and we've never had congestion issues within their network. It's the over-committed peering links some routes go over you need to route around. But it's to be expected for the price.

Do they finally have communities in place to identify their customer routes? We had connectivity to them a number of years ago and had significant problems, however I don't recall any problems on their own network other than it going down a lot.

openvz_ca
join:2008-12-13
canada

openvz_ca to pstewart

Member

to pstewart
said by pstewart:

Cologix 3 = 1250 Rene Levesque?

Yup!

pstewart
Premium Member
join:2005-10-12
Peterborough, ON

pstewart

Premium Member

said by openvz_ca:

said by pstewart:

Cologix 3 = 1250 Rene Levesque?

Yup!

Ahh... ok - yes, we have transport gear in there today. I lose track of the Cologix building numbers in MTL

openvz_ca
join:2008-12-13
canada

openvz_ca to pstewart

Member

to pstewart
said by pstewart:

said by openvz_ca:

said by edugas:

5% of the 20% will understand that at 2$ per Mbps you'll only get Cogent routes and a middle man to deal with in case of problems..

FWIW, connectivity with Cogent always adds value to a mix due to the shier amount of AS's they're connected to. We buy transit from them but only accept their customer routes and we've never had congestion issues within their network. It's the over-committed peering links some routes go over you need to route around. But it's to be expected for the price.

Do they finally have communities in place to identify their customer routes? We had connectivity to them a number of years ago and had significant problems, however I don't recall any problems on their own network other than it going down a lot.

They do have a number of different communities now. And they also allow you to advertise specific communities to influence localpref and geographical restrictions.

»cogentco.com/files/docs/ ··· uide.pdf

Page 22 on that PDF has more details.

We've had them for the past 3 years, only one outage that was outside of a maintenance period they provided notice for. We have approx 80k active routes from them though. So it's a small window. I wouldn 't be able to comment on their transit performance because we never intended to use them for that (due to a lot of people saying what you just said Re: performance). But I have heard they have gotten much better over the past few years.
openvz_ca

openvz_ca to pstewart

Member

to pstewart
said by pstewart:

Ahh... ok - yes, we have transport gear in there today. I lose track of the Cologix building numbers in MTL

Yeah it's a great facility, except for the UPS that blew up about 1 year ago causing two very long power outages about a week apart. Luckily we weren't on that circuit. Whole rooms were offline for many hours.

pstewart
Premium Member
join:2005-10-12
Peterborough, ON

pstewart

Premium Member

Apparently 1250 had some power outages a few weeks ago I heard from other ISP's but we were not effected on either A or B feeds.

openvz_ca
join:2008-12-13
canada

openvz_ca

Member

said by pstewart:

Apparently 1250 had some power outages a few weeks ago I heard from other ISP's but we were not effected on either A or B feeds.

We moved out about 6 months ago. Since Cologix purchased Canix, pricing went up considerably. Overnight our cross connects which were free (we were in before they charged for them) went to between $300-$500 /month each. No notice, just invoiced.

pstewart
Premium Member
join:2005-10-12
Peterborough, ON

pstewart

Premium Member

said by openvz_ca:

said by pstewart:

Apparently 1250 had some power outages a few weeks ago I heard from other ISP's but we were not effected on either A or B feeds.

We moved out about 6 months ago. Since Cologix purchased Canix, pricing went up considerably. Overnight our cross connects which were free (we were in before they charged for them) went to between $300-$500 /month each. No notice, just invoiced.

Ouch - I've heard similar stories before unfortunately. We have been quite happy overall with Cologix and also Equinix.
brendanthkid
join:2013-03-15
Windsor, ON

brendanthkid to JimBee

Member

to JimBee
Personally I am very happy with cogeco peering. They recently peered up with level3 and now most traffic goes through there. Cogeco also directly peers with google which is awesome.

neochu
join:2008-12-12
Windsor, ON

neochu

Member

said by brendanthkid:

Personally I am very happy with cogeco peering. They recently peered up with level3 and now most traffic goes through there. Cogeco also directly peers with google which is awesome.

I'm absolutely Convinced L3 has a dedicated trunk as a part of their continential infrastructure (like 100k plus internet connections big) terminating in Windsor that doesn't follow through the rest of SW Ontario. Ive heard that trunk may follow the old Michigan Central rail Tunnel and it acts as a Nexus for both ORION and Commercial entities wanting to plug into it. Its a branch of all the feeds into ChIX at sub 40ms Pings.

People only notice it when our uplink to the rest of Canada gets cut.

You probably see those hops because Cogeco bought the old "Maxess" Fibre Infrastructure (the city's attempt at running an ISP) Which was fixed into the L3 uplink.

pstewart
Premium Member
join:2005-10-12
Peterborough, ON

pstewart to brendanthkid

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to brendanthkid
said by brendanthkid:

Personally I am very happy with cogeco peering. They recently peered up with level3 and now most traffic goes through there. Cogeco also directly peers with google which is awesome.

Yes - Cogeco purchases transit from Level(3) and peers with Google via TorIX in Toronto.
pstewart

pstewart to neochu

Premium Member

to neochu
said by neochu:

People only notice it when our uplink to the rest of Canada gets cut.

I'm confused by your statement. Level(3) is one of many carriers with fiber going through Ontario so what uplink to "the rest of Canada" are you referring to?

jmck
formerly 'shaded'
join:2010-10-02
Ottawa, ON

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jmck to pstewart

Member

to pstewart
.

openvz_ca
join:2008-12-13
canada

openvz_ca to brendanthkid

Member

to brendanthkid
said by brendanthkid:

Personally I am very happy with cogeco peering. They recently peered up with level3 and now most traffic goes through there. Cogeco also directly peers with google which is awesome

Which Cogeco AS are you peering with? Cogeco Cable or Cogeco Data? They have 3 AS' 21548, 23498 & 11290 & from what I hear they aren't all the same in terms of value. We get transit from 21548 and are very satisfied.

Plus with their Peer1 acquisition I'm sure they'll be leveraging that more in their mix eventually.
brendanthkid
join:2013-03-15
Windsor, ON

brendanthkid to neochu

Member

to neochu
said by neochu:

said by brendanthkid:

Personally I am very happy with cogeco peering. They recently peered up with level3 and now most traffic goes through there. Cogeco also directly peers with google which is awesome.

I'm absolutely Convinced L3 has a dedicated trunk as a part of their continential infrastructure (like 100k plus internet connections big) terminating in Windsor that doesn't follow through the rest of SW Ontario. Ive heard that trunk may follow the old Michigan Central rail Tunnel and it acts as a Nexus for both ORION and Commercial entities wanting to plug into it. Its a branch of all the feeds into ChIX at sub 40ms Pings.

People only notice it when our uplink to the rest of Canada gets cut.

You probably see those hops because Cogeco bought the old "Maxess" Fibre Infrastructure (the city's attempt at running an ISP) Which was fixed into the L3 uplink.

Well by looking at the traceroutes cogeco connects with Level3 in Toronto, the first level3 hop is buffalo, NY. That is interesting about the Level3 fiber and the Maxess fiber. My school actually has 2 Maxess fiber connections on the outside of the building as a part of the WEDnet.
brendanthkid

brendanthkid to openvz_ca

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I'm not saying I peer with Cogeco, I am merely a residential customer. All of these peers peer with AS7992 Cogeco Cable Canada
brendanthkid

brendanthkid to JimBee

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Click for full size
Pretty interesting about the Level3 fibre in windsor, I see an Mnsi data center has Cogent, Cogeco, TELUS, hydro one, Bell, MTS and LEVEL3 connectivity. Maybe you are right about the level3 fibre here