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siljaline
I'm lovin' that double wide
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Montreal, QC

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Re: Mozilla Will Serve Ads Within Tiles Of Its New Tab Pages

A possible olive branch from Mozilla on the directory tiles program.
Mozilla Plans Firefox Ads: Will Users Buy It?
»www.informationweek.com/ ··· /1113821

goalieskates
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join:2004-09-12
land of big

goalieskates

Premium Member

said by siljaline:

A possible olive branch from Mozilla on the directory tiles program.
Mozilla Plans Firefox Ads: Will Users Buy It?
»www.informationweek.com/ ··· /1113821

I don't think I'd call that an olive branch. From the article:
quote:
Mozilla intends to seek community feedback about whether to extend its Directory Tiles content initiative beyond new Firefox installations to include longstanding Firefox users who have cleared their browser cookies. The company also hasn't yet determined whether any Firefox default settings will need to be altered to enable Directory Tiles.
I think that's exactly what people are afraid of. Lets not forget, people are already providing community feedback, and Mozilla is doing what it can to stifle it.
PX Eliezer1
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Zubrowka USA

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PX Eliezer1

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said by goalieskates:

I think that's exactly what people are afraid of. Lets not forget, people are already providing community feedback, and Mozilla is doing what it can to stifle it.

It's like what happened at the end of George Orwell's "Animal Farm"....

No question, now, what had happened to the faces of the Mozillas.

The creatures outside looked from Mozillas to Microsofts, and from Microsofts to Mozillas, and from Mozillas to Microsofts again; but already it was impossible to say which was which.

OZO
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OZO to siljaline

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I don't buy an idea of ads in browsers at all. Is it in a new tab page or in configuration dialog box (next step may be?) or any other places.

With ads, usually comes tracking. With tracking, come unsolicited connections. With unsolicited connections - viruses and malware. One small step at a time ... in wrong direction.

siljaline
I'm lovin' that double wide
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join:2002-10-12
Montreal, QC

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to goalieskates
said by goalieskates:

I think that's exactly what people are afraid of. Lets not forget, people are already providing community feedback, and Mozilla is doing what it can to stifle it.

Noted and point made - good observation.
Mele20
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Hilo, HI

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Click for full size
I had not seen the latest Mozilla Easter egg. This thread prompted me to take a look.

It's creepy.

chachazz
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join:2003-12-14

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chachazz

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The Book of Mozilla, 15:1
quote:
This verse landed in the Mozilla trunk codebase on January 23, 2013.[13] It first appeared in the nightly builds of Firefox 21 and, as of February 1, 2014 is the currently displayed text in the released product.

The "twins of Mammon" refers to Apple and Google, whose mobile operating systems, respectively iOS and Android, have taken a duopoly of the mobile OS market. The "new darkness" refers to the closed nature of traditional app stores. The beast moving "swiftly" refers to the new rapid release cycle of Firefox. The phrase "went forth and multiplied" refers to "Firefox becoming multiple things"[14] through Firefox for Android and Firefox OS. The verse number 15:1 refers to the code freeze of Firefox OS 1.0 (January 15, 2013).[15]
from The Book of Mozilla, Wikipedia

trparky
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That reads like a Bible verse.

sivran
Vive Vivaldi
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Irving, TX

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sivran

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It's kinda supposed to.

Hmm, shall I make an attempt at writing the next one?
quote:
And so the storm of vengeance had run its course. The followers of Mammon and the worshipers of the beast emerged, and they gazed upon Mammon and the Beast. And they wept, for it was impossible to tell one from the other.

85281231 (banned)
join:2014-02-01

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85281231 (banned) to siljaline

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Doesn't everyone already "disable" that silly newtab page? Put all the ads there they want, I will not see any of them.
You can also make it so a "new" tab opens any page you want.

siljaline
I'm lovin' that double wide
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join:2002-10-12
Montreal, QC

siljaline

Premium Member

Use the already cited link which disables new ad tabs or as they are now know as Directory Tiles
»support.mozilla.org/en-U ··· p-sites?
Mele20
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Hey, that's pretty good! Mozilla should hire you to write the next one.

But, seriously, if what you have written comes to pass, it will be a day for much weeping. The worry with these ads, of course, is that Mozilla will slowly extend them so that all long time users are also subjected to them AND Mozilla will make it so that they cannot be disabled in about:config. Mitchell says she is acutely aware of the slippery slope (because of what happened with Netscape that led to Phoenix, Firebird, Fx coming about) but is she really?

It seems only SeaMonkey, which Mozilla Foundation abandoned when it was still Mozilla Suite, has stayed true to course. They made a pledge and they haven't strayed from it like Fx folks have (IMO) but that's partly because they are group of volunteers with almost no funds (anyone have a server they could donate or sell cheaply to SeaMonkey? They desperately need a replacement of the old one that is failing and causing so many problems). So, SM has bugs, like a very irritating one that keeps youtube (and others) html5 video from playing in full screen, and no one is working on the bug as they are spread so thin. So, the conundrum. Sell your soul which Mozilla is close to doing with these ads to stay "vibrant" and in business or is it to be like SeaMonkey? There simply has to be something acceptable IN-BETWEEN these two things. THAT's where the discussion should be now.
PX Eliezer1
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PX Eliezer1

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said by Mele20:

There simply has to be something acceptable IN-BETWEEN these two things. THAT's where the discussion should be now.

Pale Moon.

[I don't know how many times we need to say the same thing....]

chachazz
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chachazz

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said by PX Eliezer1:

Pale Moon.

[I don't know how many times we need to say the same thing....]

and what's this start page about ?
Content? Advertisements? Revenue?


devolved
join:2012-07-11
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Ooma Telo

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This article says they're not advertisements.

»www.theinquirer.net/inqu ··· nt-boxes

Don't think they're aiming to have targeted advertising in there.

If say for example ESPN wanted to fork over some money to place their site in that tabbed page, they can pay Mozilla and in return, Mozilla will place a site icon linking to ESPN's home page.

Rather than have site icons of sites you've visited placed in there, Mozilla would place site icons of sites that have paid to be placed there as well.

The only time I've ever used that page is if there was a page I've been to that is still there. I click on the site icon and go. Otherwise I really don't use the feature.
Mele20
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Hilo, HI

Mele20

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That article was tongue in cheek...you missed that I guess.

Of course, they are ads. "Inherent value" what planet is that sort of thinking from? There is zero inherent value in ads placed in blank tiles on that page. It's wishful thinking and justification to insist those have inherent value. It's a slap in the face of all loyal Mozillians.

goalieskates
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said by Mele20:

The worry with these ads, of course, is that Mozilla will slowly extend them so that all long time users are also subjected to them AND Mozilla will make it so that they cannot be disabled in about:config.

If they're already considering extending this to long-time users who clean their cookies (and who doesn't?), it's no longer a worry. It's a roadmap.

It's really none of Mozilla's business what cookies are on my machine, and it's not their place to "rectify" my objection to their "favored partners." If I don't want something for security and/or privacy reasons, that's my choice. They're certainly not giving me reason to trust them.

carpetshark3
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Re: Pale Moon Start Page

That's more of a speed dial for users who are too lazy to bookmark and the tab bar doesn't have enough room. Boat Browser for Android had a lot of that crap, since deleted. Opera shoves junk like that on the stupid speed dial. You can get rid of them by using about:blank as home page.

I have a link to Startpage on Boat Browser. I use that link to search rather than Google or Bing. It's easier to find on the start page, you can't edit browsers in Boat like you can on the computer.

I don't want to see big ads all over since the stuff I am interested in does not rate large interest. If Orion Telescopes and Binoculars put up an ad page, that wouldn't bother me. An ad for clothes, car, household products, drugs, soap and other personal care will be ignored. I happen to know what I want and don't want and am satisfied with what I have.
Mele20
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said by goalieskates:

If they're already considering extending this to long-time users who clean their cookies (and who doesn't?), it's no longer a worry. It's a roadmap.

It's really none of Mozilla's business what cookies are on my machine, and it's not their place to "rectify" my objection to their "favored partners." If I don't want something for security and/or privacy reasons, that's my choice. They're certainly not giving me reason to trust them.

They talk the talk but don't walk the walk already and, when it started, long term users mostly shrugged their shoulders and acted as though it was "business as usual". I'm referring to way back in Fx 1.5 (I think it was) when third party cookies were automatically blocked then that changed in Fx2 along with other disturbing privacy changes...all rather small ones (and the user who was knowledgeable could fix it) but still the tell was there. I left Fx for Opera then and had it as my default browser for several years (never, ever thought I would do that before those troubling privacy violations). I did come back to Fx4 but every time I see the privacy tab in Fx 4, and onward, Options I don't feel good because I know trusting, naive users never go there and thus don't change the new default which is to to accept third party cookies. Mozilla swore way back that they would never, ever do that (invoking, as they have currently, the negative experience that they had with Netscape toward the end) but then they went and did it anyway.

So, the tell is there going all the way back to Fx 2 (and we had several long threads in this forum about it back then). I would be greatly saddened, but not really surprised, if the first target (beyond the brand new user) isn't those of us who block third party cookies by default in Fx.

siljaline
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We might as well throw in Avant while we're comparing all sitting Browsers.
47717768 (banned)
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I am sure there is would be away to disable ad content.
PX Eliezer1
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PX Eliezer1 to chachazz

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said by chachazz:

said by PX Eliezer1:

Pale Moon.

[I don't know how many times we need to say the same thing....]

and what's this start page about ?
Content? Advertisements? Revenue?

I honestly have [never seen] that "start page".

PaleMoon gives 3 choices for what should be displayed on startup:

1) Home page (user chooses it)
2) Blank page
3) Windows and tabs from last time

-----

In any event, Mele20 was pleading for something "INBETWEEN" the overbloated and overcommercialized Firefox, and the basic and volunteer-maintained SeaMonkey.

IMHO, PaleMoon is a major contender for that job.

trparky
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·AT&T U-Verse

trparky

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Palemoon is a one-man operation. He cherry picks specific things from the Mozilla Firefox source code tree, then merges them into his source code tree. Most of the time he only takes security fixes, rendering engine changes, etc. He leaves the social media crap out.

siljaline
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This is probably value added - a more in depth view and Mozilla position on the Directory Tiles program. Mozilla clarifies, defends Firefox ad position.
»www.zdnet.com/mozilla-cl ··· 0026335/

angussf
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angussf to siljaline

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Note that the "sponsored tiles" will only appear to NEW USERS of Firefox. Existing users will already have populated their set of tiles and so won't see any changes.
Mozilla today announced plans to put ads inside its Firefox browser. If you're already a Firefox user, you likely won't see any at all.
Seen here:
Mozilla Announces Plans to Play Ads in Firefox Browser
»www.tomshardware.com/new ··· 019.html
Also:
Mozilla To Show Sponsored Links To First-Time Firefox Users - Slashdot
»news.slashdot.org/story/ ··· ox-users
Mozilla has announced a new initiative to show sponsored content within the Firefox browser. Currently, opening a new tab in Firefox will display a set of nine tiles showing your most commonly visited websites. When a user installs Firefox and opens it for the first time, they see these tiles, but eight of them are blank (one links to a Firefox tutorial). As the user browses the web, those tiles gradually fill in with visited sites. But Mozilla is going to fill out those blank eight tiles for new users. They say, "Some of these tile placements will be from the Mozilla ecosystem, some will be popular websites in a given geographic location, and some will be sponsored content from hand-picked partners to help support Mozilla’s pursuit of our mission. The sponsored tiles will be clearly labeled as such, while still leading to content we think users will enjoy." Existing users shouldn't see any difference, and the tiles will be replaced with commonly-visited sites like they do now.

goalieskates
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goalieskates

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Lovely highlighting, angussf, but that's not what they told Infoweek in the article siljaline linked and I quoted.

So I'm not sure what point you're trying to make? Because if it's meant to reassure the rest of us, it's not. Any specific insight about the cookies proposal for long-time users?

angussf
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join:2002-01-11
Tucson, AZ

angussf

Premium Member

said by goalieskates:

Lovely highlighting, angussf, but that's not what they told Infoweek in the article siljaline linked and I quoted.

So I'm not sure what point you're trying to make? Because if it's meant to reassure the rest of us, it's not. Any specific insight about the cookies proposal for long-time users?

The point I'm trying to make is that people who have used FF for more than a few days won't see these sponsored tiles.

If you're paranoid about privacy and ads, unfortunately either Firefox or some non-Google flavour of Chromium (Iron Browser is the one I use) is your only choice. The Firefox addon selection is much better, and it's relatively easy to configure your FF for enhanced privacy using about:config. While this is an important issue, it won't drive me away from FF any more than the tiles did before -- I just disabled them using about:config.

siljaline
I'm lovin' that double wide
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siljaline

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As posted already in this thread - it's cause to be alarmist at best.
»blog.mozilla.org/advanci ··· y-tiles/
Some examples:

Will Directory Tiles Profile Users to Target Content?

quote:
We will use GeoIP to ensure Tiles content is relevant to the user’s location, just as we recognize where a visitor to our homepage came from so we can localize the language, but no other user information is collected or considered.
^^ Clear ad targeting via the Browser

Et alia.

angussf
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Tucson, AZ

angussf

Premium Member

said by siljaline:

As posted already in this thread - it's cause to be alarmist at best.
»blog.mozilla.org/advanci ··· y-tiles/
Some examples:

Will Directory Tiles Profile Users to Target Content?

quote:
We will use GeoIP to ensure Tiles content is relevant to the user’s location, just as we recognize where a visitor to our homepage came from so we can localize the language, but no other user information is collected or considered.
^^ Clear ad targeting via the Browser

Et alia.

I don't usually surf without using Tor. YMMV.

siljaline
I'm lovin' that double wide
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join:2002-10-12
Montreal, QC

siljaline

Premium Member

said by angussf:

I don't usually surf without using Tor. YMMV.

Eh ? Non comprendé