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47717768
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Birmingham, AL
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1 edit

2 recommendations

MS should of released two editions of Win 8

MS should of released two editions of Win 8 called tablet Edition and desktop Edition.


Msradell
P.E.
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2 recommendations

I don't think anybody except Microsoft would disagree with you!


CCat
We're all quite mad here
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reply to 47717768


norwegian
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reply to 47717768

Been saying that since the beginning.

Maybe Microsoft thought the desktops with touch screens would take off.
I don't think a desktop will be a winner for touch screen.
Having a large monitor in front of you to touch looks too menacing and gets in the way of work and it's piles of paper.

But maybe this environment was only to test touch screen apps with a larger database and they don't mind the initial drop in sales?
The next version will be the touch screen and desktop scene and sales will come back?

Maybe they need to actually re-define the beta test programming and the now defunct Technet subscription instead of using their user-base as guinea pigs?
Maybe that is the real concern here?
--
The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing - Edmund Burke

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robbin
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reply to norwegian

Re: MS should of released two editions of Win 8

Touch screen works pretty good on my laptop. I haven't totally integrated it into my work flow, but I do find it easier to touch some of the time.

I have to wonder if in future years we won't praise Microsoft for integrating the two systems. Right now it is learning pains for both the user and the OS designer, but I do like the ability to run the full operating system on a tablet. While it is not my preferred work computer, sometimes you need to be able to get something done and the tablet is what is convenient or accessible.

Happydude32
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reply to 47717768
I think one just has to took at two examples of why that would have been a flop.

1) Been there, done that. Windows XP Tablet Edition was not received well.

2) Windows RT tablets have not exactly been a success. And Windows RT is essentially Windows 8 Tablet Edition

If I were to get a Windows tablet, personally I would want one with the full Windows operating system, I don't believe I'm alone with that statement as you just have to look at RT tablets. So more or less the general sentiment is people want tablets with both Metro and the traditional desktop interfaces and laptops/desktops with desktop only.
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norwegian
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reply to robbin

Re: MS should of released two editions of Win 8

I won't disagree with you at all and tablets/laptops have a lot in the "convenience" category and what they can do.

I think Steve says it all, there is 2 distinct environments and past history hasn't been kind to the Big M trying to come across with a tablet.

So why did the powers to be think the 2 differing tools become the same?
If they failed with previous product, why then force it on everyone?
Maybe it is for the APU and it's future etc, because hardware is changing whereby everything is soldered and not plug-able like a desktop is.

Being realistic and going off past wins and losses, this isn't the end, and I want to think positively it is the beginning too.
I just hope they do not continue with the desktop theme aka Win 8 for desktops.
Personal choice I know, but I am not alone and hopefully they are aware of this and happy to lose sales, even if marginally initially, so they do start a new path for computing both software and hardware in the years ahead.
--
The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing - Edmund Burke



digitalfutur
Sees More Than Shown
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reply to 47717768
They did. It's called the Windows key.


Michail
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reply to 47717768
What does RT mean anyway? I get confused and think of NT but that just may be my age.

Happydude32
Premium
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Nothing.

»blogs.wsj.com/corporate-intellig ··· mething/

NefCanuck

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reply to 47717768
I think that if the choice had been made available at the start between the Classic Windows UI and the new touchscreen interface (and the ability to switch as desired) there would have been far less of an outcry.

Win7 had touch as an option and for those of us (like myself) who took advantage of it, it worked pretty well, it wasn't by any means perfect, but its not like the original Windows UI was perfection either.

The problem was that Microsoft saw the writing on the wall, with the success of iTunes and the microtrasaction environment that it fostered, they want a piece of that pie and the only way to establish such market control is with a new interface that has the single access point.

I personally never bought the idea of "One Interface To Rule Them All" as a reason for Microsoft to go in the direction that they did with Win 8, it was all about the money.

Now that he genie is out of the bottle, I don't see Microsoft fully backing down, they can't and hope to continue to thrive in this new world order.

NefCanuck


elwoodblues
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reply to norwegian
said by norwegian:

Maybe they need to actually re-define the beta test programming and the now defunct Technet subscription instead of using their user-base as guinea pigs?
Maybe that is the real concern here?

Funny you bring that up, I got into the business when NT 4.0 was the OS at the time. When 2000 was being touted i recall at least 3 beta releases and a I think 3 more Release candidates.

Now days you get a "Community Technology Preview" , which is a fancy word for beta test it for us, and at the end it becomes "gold" bugs and all .
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dave
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said by elwoodblues:

which is a fancy word for beta test it for us

I think the distinction is that, with an actual beta test, beta users are expected to file test reports, whereas 'preview' admits it is a one-way street.

If you recall, many users seemed to consider beta as simply a way to get a pre-release version anyway with no obligation on their part.


norwegian
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said by dave:

said by elwoodblues:

which is a fancy word for beta test it for us

I think the distinction is that, with an actual beta test, beta users are expected to file test reports, whereas 'preview' admits it is a one-way street.

If you recall, many users seemed to consider beta as simply a way to get a pre-release version anyway with no obligation on their part.

Understand that one.

Nothing like a file upload of 2GB of a memory dump, have it fail over night (on basic consumer grade speeds in down under) and then find out when you finally managed the upload, it was corrupt and of no value.

--
The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing - Edmund Burke


Mele20
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1 recommendation

reply to 47717768
Out of the horse's mouth (From a Microsoft Windows 8 developer):

"Our hands were bound, and our users were annoyed with their rented jackets. So what did we do? We separated the users into two groups. Casual and Power. We made two separate playgrounds for them. All the casual users would have their own new and shiny place to look at pictures of cats -- Metro. The power users would then have free reign over their native domain -- the desktop.

So why was Metro initially made the default with no option to boot to the desktop in Windows 8? Miller explained the thinking here:

The short answer is because casual users don't go exploring. If we made desktop the default as it has always been, and included a nice little start menu that felt like home, the casual users would never have migrated to their land of milk and honey."

But never fear desktop power users:

"Now that the casual users are aware of their new pasture, we can start tailoring. It will be a while before the power users start seeing the benefits of this (that's why I said they'd benefit in the long run). Right now we still have a lot of work to do on making Metro seem tasty for those casual users, and that's going to divert our attention for a while."

»news.cnet.com/8301-10805_3-57619 ··· D090e536
--
When governments fear people, there is liberty. When the people fear the government, there is tyranny. Thomas Jefferson

dave
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But we knew that already, right? "Go for the touch market and the desktop users can go screw themselves".

All the article adds is a parenthetical "for a while" to the last clause.

BlitzenZeus
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reply to Mele20
Still smells like a load of bullcrap, and forcing a beta quality software at best while being generous calling it beta gui on paying customers to get it out in time for the holidays since they didn't want to sit on the hardware to miss the holiday sales while it became outdated. The metro gui might have been partially acceptable on a limited arm tablet, but definitely not a real computer. It was simply just a damn rush job trying to get the desktop side done imho, and there was no real plan like they were talking about.

Fixing it along the way? Things were clearly broken, missing basic features, and trying to directly compete with the limited capabilities of something like an ipad. If they had just waited, and released this garbage the next year fully functional on both fronts we would have seen two clear options, the tablet, or desktop which we could choose from it would have been more acceptable.

Maybe enough people will vote Microsoft the worst company in America, but EA seems to be going for a record three years in a row currently. This they couldn't blame on 3rd party, and they shot themselves in the foot here.
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Mele20
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Sure, it's comments from a Microsoft apologist...but interesting especially since the guy actually currently works for Microsoft so probably it isn't all BS.

"ES"? I thought Comcast (my new overlord) was the worst company in the nation for the past three years (not just the worst ISP or cable company).
--
When governments fear people, there is liberty. When the people fear the government, there is tyranny. Thomas Jefferson

BlitzenZeus
Burnt Out Cynic
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It's a game company who pissed off gamers on multiple platforms.
»consumerist.com/2013/12/30/is-ea ··· a-crown/


Jackarino
YacCity
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Allendale, NJ
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reply to 47717768
What about those touch screen laptops/hybrids that are out there


dib22

join:2002-01-27
Kansas City, MO
reply to 47717768
said by 47717768:

MS should of released two editions of Win 8 called tablet Edition and desktop Edition.

Much to complicated... they should have just left the start menu there... even if they made it an "option" to enable or disable.

The path they went was just stupid... every other windows I can recall was backwards compatible in the GUI, but not win8.

It is like with windows phone... they left out copy and paste... they knew people would hate it but they did it anyway... they are taking the "be like apple" thing a bit too literally.


47717768
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join:2003-12-08
Birmingham, AL
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1 edit
Well you can Switch Between Metro UI to Desktop GUI in Win 8 »blogs.msdn.com/b/zxue/archive/20 ··· top.aspx, but thing is how many people know that it is possible?.


dib22

join:2002-01-27
Kansas City, MO

1 recommendation

said by 47717768:

Well you can Switch Between Metro UI to Desktop GUI in Win 8

yes but even when you do you are stuck with the "Fullscreen 8® Start menu"

It was a bone head move on their part... and the fact that they didn't put the start menu back (at least as an option) in 8.1 proves they were led astray by someone.

Once again... don't get me wrong... they NEEDED a touch interface... I am not against TIFKAM (modernUI).... I just don't get the lack of a traditional windows start menu.

After using a surface pro for a week or two now I can also suggest that MS should have considered creating a better method for zooming, and should have considered making the windows controls bigger (think windows xp vs windows vista sized)... and their default on screen keyboard has no F keys and no cursor keys (doh).


47717768
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Birmingham, AL
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3 edits
I have done some research getting Start menu back in Win 8 »windows.microsoft.com/en-us/wind ··· art-menu but why can't MS make it simple to begin with in the first place ?


anonomeX

@comcast.net
reply to Mele20
I think he doesn't know the difference between "casual" and "power". Casual users will happily touch-tap-tap on their screens all day long; power users would rather stack commands with a CLI. Power users want the interface to not get in the way of what they want to do. Win8 is, basically, all up in your face with its "touch me" interface. (Personally, I don't care. I use Win7 still on my desktop. My laptop has Win8, which is fine--it does what it's supposed to. And then there's the Chromebook I just got--nice, solid [unpretentious] little box that lets me do several basic things the way I want and generally ignore it the rest of the time... in a word, "relaxed".) For actual "power", I'll stick with AIX or MVS.


Anonymous_
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reply to 47717768

»www.youtube.com/watch?v=B2G4Y_Ia ··· 4Y_IaKTI


Christopher Lloyd is always is in BTF character


Michail
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Boynton Beach, FL
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reply to Jackarino
said by Jackarino:

What about those touch screen laptops/hybrids that are out there

I've been very happy with mine. I never quite got the modern UI until working with it on a hybrid system. A power user should be able to make nice use of both sides.


Michail
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Boynton Beach, FL
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reply to dib22
said by dib22:

It is like with windows phone... they left out copy and paste... they knew people would hate it but they did it anyway... they are taking the "be like apple" thing a bit too literally.

That must pre-date any windows phone I've used. I didn't get started until WP8 but it had copy/paste at launch.

WP 8.1 is looking really interesting. It should be WP9 but they are trying to unify the OS.