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Darhole
Premium Member
join:2005-06-14
Edmonton, AB
Ubiquiti EdgeRouter Lite
Asus RT-AC87
Actiontec T3200M

Darhole to nss_tech

Premium Member

to nss_tech

Re: High ping inside telus network

said by nss_tech:

You guys do realize that a very tiny number of people have been complaining about routing for quite some time. The front line tech support will have NO WAY TO CONTROL ROUTING or PEERING. You just end up wasting time by calling them. Emailing Telus won't do anything either. You'd actually have to find the email for the person that deals with the peering agreements and somehow convince them to change things (also known as not possible).

I've stopped even trying with the west coast servers. I game on the Chicago ones.

If people don't keep bringing it up things will never change. I sent my e-mails to the right place, time will tell.

nss_tech
join:2007-07-29
Edmonton AB

nss_tech

Member

Oh really? I find that hard to believe you have any email address for someone that far up the food chain. Not even the tech support people nor their managers have any way to contact anyone dealing with routing. There won't be any changes unless a rather large percentage of users start complaining, loudly. Or at the very least, something that drastically effects the connection performance (peering not local) and a few extra milliseconds in latency won't even register as an issue.

Darhole
Premium Member
join:2005-06-14
Edmonton, AB
Ubiquiti EdgeRouter Lite
Asus RT-AC87
Actiontec T3200M

Darhole

Premium Member

said by nss_tech:

Oh really? I find that hard to believe you have any email address for someone that far up the food chain. Not even the tech support people nor their managers have any way to contact anyone dealing with routing. There won't be any changes unless a rather large percentage of users start complaining, loudly. Or at the very least, something that drastically effects the connection performance (peering not local) and a few extra milliseconds in latency won't even register as an issue.

peering@telus.com IPsupport@telus.com

It's always worth a try sir. You won't convince me otherwise.
50501434 (banned)
join:2014-02-15

50501434 (banned)

Member

i wonder if this could have been related to all the DDOS the league servers were getting a bit back. i love drama alert lol

»www.youtube.com/watch?v= ··· v0VQw39Y

Darhole
Premium Member
join:2005-06-14
Edmonton, AB
Ubiquiti EdgeRouter Lite
Asus RT-AC87
Actiontec T3200M

1 edit

1 recommendation

Darhole to nss_tech

Premium Member

to nss_tech
said by nss_tech:

Oh really? I find that hard to believe you have any email address for someone that far up the food chain. Not even the tech support people nor their managers have any way to contact anyone dealing with routing. There won't be any changes unless a rather large percentage of users start complaining, loudly. Or at the very least, something that drastically effects the connection performance (peering not local) and a few extra milliseconds in latency won't even register as an issue.

Below is a direct quote of a reply from the peering folks at Telus:

TELUS is looking at what can be done to improve the latency from Alberta to the Riot game servers. We are reaching out to Riot Games to see if we can setup a direct peering relationship in Seattle, but this will take 3 weeks to complete once agreement to peer is in place.
For western canada, TELUS exchanges most of our Internet traffic in Seattle and Chicago so we have diverse Internet exchange points. We also implement some peering connections in Palo Alto and LA. I understand that latency is very important to gamers and reaching the west coast game servers via Chicago is not optimal. Improving latency is very difficult to engineer from a BGP perspective. BGP is not based upon geography and BGP routes don't indicate their origin location. TELUS will see the same BGP routes presented in both Seattle and Chicago with no way to easily select the optimal path. There are almost 500,000 IPV4 BGP routes now and it is not possible to micro-engineer the optimal path for each BGP route. In addition, BGP is completely asymmetric with TELUS only having visibility and control over our BGP exit routes. Without traceroutes, we have no idea how Internap or Riot Games servers are routing their return traffic to TELUS. Both companies have extensive peering connections and its unlikely their return path is the same as the TELUS forward path.
Given the BGP complications, the most straightforward solution is to peer directly with Riot Games and we will proceed with that.
******.

-----Original Message-----
From: darhole [mailto:*****@telus.net]
Sent: March 2, 2014 03:45 PM
To: PEERING
Subject: Slow routing to west coast - Riot League of Legends specifically
Hello,
For the past (at least) month, I have noticed some very odd routing and latency to the west coast.
I play League of Legends regularly, and their servers are all west coast, primarily in California.
When I switched from my Shaw service last March, I was pinging between 60-70ms to the Riot servers. For the past few months, this ping is averaging 105-115. I ran some traceroutes and noticed something extremely bizarre: all traffic to riot is being routed from Edmonton to Chicago as follows:
Edmonton AB > Chicago > Illinois > Colorado > Seattle > Oregon > California
I had a Telus subscriber near Vancouver run the same traceroutes to the IP ranges Riot uses, and his traffic was being run from Vancouver to Seattle and skipping the whole Chicago step. As such, the ping was 50ms to California.
Interestingly, I take a proper route to Valve's servers located in the same general area. I believe they peer differently with Telus however.
I'm having a hard time believing this is a BGP issue, as I can't see why Chicago would ever win out over a hop in BC internally that was shorter and faster.
I have done every bit of troubleshooting possible on my end. Latest firmware, factory resets, three different devices, wired connections (different cables). The connection is stable, just too high of a ping to compete in a live online game.
I have had my profile adjusted a few times to try and save a few ms that way, nothing has been beneficial.
I can handle 70ms, 105 is too high of a delay to compete in this game.
I love Telus, I love your technical support, the service is great. However, in my limited free time I like to play this game, and unfortunately it is a deal breaker if I cannot do so.
If nothing can be done, I will have to look at switching back to Shaw, as much as it pains me to do so. I am really hoping this is fixable!
Thanks,
********
Account #*******

E-mailing the right people does help. BOOM!
Darhole

1 recommendation

Darhole

Premium Member

Update from Telus:

"I implemented some BGP routing adjustments tonight and the latency from Calgary to the Internap game servers in LA (ex 216.133.234.102, 64.7.194.114) has dropped by 24ms (78 -> 54ms). The Alberta traffic is now taking a direct route from Calgary/Edmonton -> Vancouver -> Seattle -> LA.

We haven't heard back yet from Riot Games about direct peering in Seattle.

****** "

Can confirm my routing to those IP ranges is going as described, noticeable ping difference.

The other IP range, ie. 192., remains unchanged.
Anomaly3
join:2014-03-10
Canada

Anomaly3

Member

Registered for a dslreports account just to say thank you Darhole for getting in touch with the right people at Telus. I see the same positive results.

Goes to show if you ask for the right thing the right way you get results. And makes perfect sense.

Telus being interested in acquiring all the clients they possibly can know that low latency to the most popular game in the world will win over people. And keep people.

Cheers!

jtl999
join:2012-11-24
canada
(Software) pfSense
MikroTik CRS125-24G-1S-RM
Ubiquiti UniFi AP-LR

jtl999

Member

Might contact them about Shaw+Telus interconnect. I noticed a friend of mine in the same city with Shaw High Speed 10 was having a 130 ping to my Mumble server hosted on my 50mbps connection. But I might get him to run some tests on his end first. The 130 ping does not affect voice but for some reason the control channel is affected by the jitter causing disconnects unless TCP is forced.
Expand your moderator at work
Acronym
join:2014-02-27

Acronym to Darhole

Member

to Darhole

Re: High ping inside telus network

Click for full size
For some reason I'm getting a random 60 ping increase in Vancouver...

Everyone else is routing fine to the LA servers now?

parrelium
join:2005-07-31

parrelium

Member

Click for full size
? Routing is definately different...

Darhole
Premium Member
join:2005-06-14
Edmonton, AB
Ubiquiti EdgeRouter Lite
Asus RT-AC87
Actiontec T3200M

Darhole to Acronym

Premium Member

to Acronym
said by Acronym:

For some reason I'm getting a random 60 ping increase in Vancouver...

Everyone else is routing fine to the LA servers now?

Thats actually Chicago, not Burnaby. I made the same mistake. CHCGIL is Chicago, IL, geotrace is wrong on this.
The 192 range has not been adjusted yet from Telus' side.

This is the hop I brought to the attention of the peering guy.

On half of the servers, the traffic is now being routed from AB > BC > Seattle > onwards instead of AB > Chicago > back west

No word on the other half yet.

He did say that he has reached out to Riot to peer directly, and it typically takes 3 weeks for these agreements to happen. If so, this should drop ping ALOT!

edit: I just ran the tests again to the 'semi-fixed' server ranges, traffic is heading back through Chicago again Let's hope they work out the peering agreement
scorpido
Premium Member
join:2009-11-02
Abbotsford, BC

scorpido to Darhole

Premium Member

to Darhole
Tracing route to CHCGILDTCI01.bb.telus.com [154.11.0.154]
over a maximum of 30 hops:

1 1 ms 1 ms 1 ms rtr1.22f.allstream.bluwest.com [162.212.20.1]
2 3 ms 3 ms 3 ms 66.46.250.185
3 3 ms 3 ms 3 ms toroonnlgr00.bb.telus.com [154.11.3.29]
4 14 ms 13 ms 14 ms CHCGILDTCI01.bb.telus.com [154.11.0.154]

Trace complete.

Thats on the Bluwest network.

Darhole
Premium Member
join:2005-06-14
Edmonton, AB
Ubiquiti EdgeRouter Lite
Asus RT-AC87
Actiontec T3200M

Darhole

Premium Member

Update from Telus:

I ran into some technical issues with the Internap BGP changes and I had to back them out for the time being.
Riot Games has agreed to peer in Seattle once they complete some network upgrades and connect to the Seattle SIX exchange.

-----Original Message-----
From: darhole [*******@telus.net]
Received: Tuesday, 11 Mar 2014, 23:13
To: ******* [******@telus.com]
Subject: Re: Slow routing to west coast - Riot League of Legends specifically

Hi ******.

Appears all traffic to Riot is being routed through Chicago again, including those two ranges. A few other users in Edm/Cgy have confirmed as well.
May be worth noting their other IP range (192*) was still coming up very frequently in games, which was on Chicago all along.

This will be my last e-mail unless you require a response from me. Hoping to hear that a peering agreement is in place!

Thanks,
******
Acronym
join:2014-02-27

Acronym to Darhole

Member

to Darhole
Whelp, I have 50 ping, down from 120; incredibly noticeable difference imo.

Hope this is a permanent change

Darhole
Premium Member
join:2005-06-14
Edmonton, AB
Ubiquiti EdgeRouter Lite
Asus RT-AC87
Actiontec T3200M

Darhole

Premium Member

said by Acronym:

Whelp, I have 50 ping, down from 120; incredibly noticeable difference imo.

Hope this is a permanent change

Happy for you. Weird shit going on tonight for me.
216 range still back through Chicago.

Weirdest thing right now. My route to the 192 range this evening is going through, wait for it, NEW YORK! To go to California.
Tracing route to 192.64.171.103 over a maximum of 30 hops

1 1 ms 1 ms 1 ms 10.0.0.1
2 1 ms 1 ms 1 ms 192.168.1.254
3 7 ms 6 ms 7 ms 10.139.190.1
4 56 ms 58 ms 144 ms NYCMNY83CI01.bb.telus.com [75.154.223.250]
5 * * * Request timed out.
6 70 ms 75 ms 71 ms he-1-14-0-0-cr01.newyork.ny.ibone.comcast.net [6
8.86.87.109]
7 68 ms 71 ms 67 ms he-0-4-0-0-cr01.350ecermak.il.ibone.comcast.net
[68.86.88.146]
8 93 ms 91 ms 91 ms he-1-14-0-0-cr01.denver.co.ibone.comcast.net [68
.86.85.118]
9 112 ms 111 ms 110 ms he-0-15-0-0-cr01.seattle.wa.ibone.comcast.net [6
8.86.86.214]
10 114 ms 114 ms 118 ms 68.86.95.18
11 115 ms 121 ms 120 ms ae-1-0-ar03.beaverton.or.bverton.comcast.net [68
.87.218.161]
12 131 ms 125 ms 115 ms ae-52-0-sur03.beaverton.or.bverton.comcast.net [
68.87.222.178]
13 * * * Request timed out.

Just got home from Need for Speed (great movie btw), went on to play, pinging avg 130 in game right now. Back to civ 5 I suppose.

Pullout1979
@telus.net

Pullout1979

Anon

I am still getting 100+. This is ridiculous. Friends on Shaw get >70

jtl999
join:2012-11-24
canada

jtl999 to Darhole

Member

to Darhole
26ms to that hop for me.

Darhole
Premium Member
join:2005-06-14
Edmonton, AB
Ubiquiti EdgeRouter Lite
Asus RT-AC87
Actiontec T3200M

Darhole to Pullout1979

Premium Member

to Pullout1979
said by Pullout1979 :

I am still getting 100+. This is ridiculous. Friends on Shaw get >70

It will take some time. Riot is apparently doing more upgrades before they peer.
Pullout1979
join:2014-03-15
Edmonton, AB

Pullout1979

Member

My trace route is similar to yours:
Tracing route to 192.64.170.62 over a maximum of 30 hops

1 1 ms 1 ms 1 ms 192.168.1.254
2 21 ms 17 ms 35 ms 10.145.250.1
3 62 ms 61 ms 61 ms NYCMNY83CI01.bb.telus.com [75.154.223.252]
4 * * * Request timed out.
5 75 ms 75 ms 76 ms he-1-14-0-0-cr01.newyork.ny.ibone.comcast.net [68.86.87.109]
6 64 ms 66 ms 64 ms he-0-2-0-0-cr01.350ecermak.il.ibone.comcast.net [68.86.88.138]
7 92 ms 92 ms 91 ms he-1-13-0-0-cr01.denver.co.ibone.comcast.net [68.86.85.246]
8 118 ms 116 ms 119 ms he-0-15-0-0-cr01.seattle.wa.ibone.comcast.net [68.86.86.214]
9 118 ms 117 ms 119 ms 68.86.95.90
10 127 ms 146 ms 121 ms ae-52-0-sur04.beaverton.or.bverton.comcast.net [68.87.222.186]
11 123 ms 117 ms 119 ms ae-52-0-sur03.beaverton.or.bverton.comcast.net [68.87.222.178]
12 * * * Request timed out.
Acronym
join:2014-02-27

Acronym to Darhole

Member

to Darhole
It was false hope guys.

Had like 2 good games of unreal ping and then got some weird server connection problems and then it rerouted.