Home Improvement → [Electrical] Certified Electrician required on site for low voltage install?

In 2013 Washington state L and I began enforcing a new RCW that requires a certified Electrician (09) or a designated Administrator be on site when low voltage cable install jobs being done. Maybe I am interpreting this new RCW wrong but now a small low voltage cable/wiring business can not run multiple small jobs at same time unless the above are on job site. Anybody know anything about this?

It's been like that for years around here (and most other places I've worked). You don't have to have a full masters license; they also have a LV license available.
The license holder doesn't need to be on site at all times, but is responsible for the work.

Good grief. Licensed to be responsible for installing a 12 volt isolated landscape light?

sparkys do what they do well but anytime i have had a sparky venture into telcom/network its been a fustercluck

My understanding is it has to do with things like fire codes and plenums esp. in commercial settings with large bundles of data/phone cables.

/M

There are also specific codes regarding distances and other requirements near pool/spa areas.

You're very outdated. I've seen some of these new kids coming out of the JATC that make old school phone guys look like slobs (I'm talking "old school" when quality used to matter). Some jobs look like absolute works of art.

You apparently aren't old enough to have seen the laced bundles in panels and wireways before cable trays in panels and tie wraps or wiring in the wireways in MCC's. I've had my lead electrician cut and jerk out wires I installed and thought looked like absolute works of art. Apparently "work of art" is a very subjective observation.

Here they can't get enough people to even go into the apprentice program so you get what you get as far as quality. Residential house wiring and small commercial electricians are available but someone with deep knowledge and understanding of the field is hard to find. Contractors have plenty of conduit running electricians and apprentices that do nothing else but run conduit and pull wire.

Those who have gone through the Apprenticeship Program in Newport News Shipbuilding are 99 percent the best possible employees.

Oh boy! That brings back memories best forgotten

The white polyester lacing cord was easy to use (and that was already standard back when I got my apprenticeship). I remember only one job site where I had to use the older red waxed twine for appearance sake and it seemed like a big struggle (perhaps because I wasn't used to it).

Sigh.. now it is Panduit, zip ties and black spirals. Gone are the chords and art work of a panel.

And he was muttering under his breath wishing you would go back to the office so he would not have to do double work correcting your art work. LOL....

I hope I never ever see another piece of the waxed twine.

Going back to the "office" meant going back to the hall which would not have been good.

I forgot to mention it was solid wire in those days that had to be perfectly bent and formed in the bundles and each termination on a terminal block had to be an eyelet that fit in a bottom Brass socket with a top then the screw went through all three into the TB securing the termination.

Even better. I worked for "the phone company". Ever see a central office back in the day? Makes a MCC look like child's play.

Really outdated thinking. Here one has had to have a license for ages. No one is saying only electricians (or 'sparky's) can do LV work. What they are saying is LV installers need to have a minimal license to ensure they at least know there is some kind of code they are supposed to be following. They ones that don't normally build fusterclucks full of crap wiring up and down a high-rise buildings. Yeah - electrical conduit looks like the perfect place to tie-wrap a network switch to! This will minimize the amount of hangars I need, because the conduit is there to tie wrap Cat5 cables to, and save labor & material costs. (I see this crap every day from installers who schooled themselves.)

whizkid3 and Nunya, please forgive me if i offended you, I value your input and experience greatly and i appologize.

I was referring to personal experience here in quebec. All the construction trades up here are governed by the RBQ and they have different levels of licencing. Up here we have specific trade schools for telecom and network cabling and they have their own licencing. That being said electricians are allowed as well to do this cabling and a lot do not have the experience required to do the work. When i have dealt with real network cabling companies all the ones i have dealt with have done excellent work, before i even spec that there are to be no tie-wraps they are talking about their hooks, trays and velcro. Some of the work they have done is so nice its a shame to cover up. Never had anything flagged by the inspectors on the work that they did. now the other end of the spectrum, a project i worked on a few years ago the electrical contractor we have been working with for years and does incredible work announces that they now do data/telecom. Being that we are a public org we had to go to tender and they undercut the cabling contractors by half. My hands were tied as all i did was spec the job and had no input in the tendering process. It was a nightmare. One instance power and data being put on the same side of a monument (we specified these particular monuments because of the data/power separation but the contractor ran data and power through the same hole in the floor and had to remove the internal separation in the monument. (we later brought in a cabling contractor to re-drill the floor, replace the monuments and re-terminate). I could go on and on. Sadly with the economic situation a lot of the electrical contractors are trying to get a bit more income by venturing into somthing they are allowed to do BUT have neither the training or the experience to do correctly.

What i am glad to see is a lot of the big electrical companies up here will bid on the jobs do the rough cable pulling and have a cabling company do the termination.

Once again my intention was not to offend either of you Nunya or Whizkid3 please accept my appologies.

Offense? None taken.

Quebec? Oh; I see. (Having built large technology projects in a few Canadian cities.)

On the flip side of the coin, electrical contractors are huge in NYC. Most have their own cabling arm. They handle the LV cabling for buildings like the World Financial Center, the United Nations, etc. They would take offense if you didn't call them sparkys.

Post a link to the RCW.

I'm sure unions are not far behind.....

...what?

the key here is OR designated Administrator. so designate one!.

I'm sure the unions were big supporters of this.

Actually, the state is the one pushing it. Both WA and OR have very strict licensing rules no matter what side you work.

There are virtually no issues related to union/non-union in these two states...peaceful co-existence is the rule.

As long as the union members are getting union wages why wouldn't they co-exist. Meanwhile the customer is likely paying too much for the work.

That's presumptive...

We have been held hostage over this a couple of times in larger cities. If you wanted at T1 extended into the next room you get to pay a union electrician 3-4 times what we normally pay to extend a cat5 cable 30-40 feet. In these instances you MUST use union labor or the building owners/managers/maint man won't let them in.

Sounds like a problem on your end...perhaps that is what the owner et al wants.

It's a pain in the ass. They almost never care who does the work as long as they are union labor. Some locations can get pretty nasty about it. Most of the hassle we encounter is in a 100 mile radius of New York City and the Chicago area.

That's corruption for you. NYC and Chicago are still overrun with it. It is slowly getting booted here in Vegas.