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seaquake
Premium,MVM
join:2001-03-23
Millersville, MD

3 recommendations

reply to Gaff

Re: Detained by law enforcement

I skipped most of the replies so this is just in reply to the OP's post.

Did you do anything wrong? Not that I can tell. Did the officers do anything wrong? By the book, I don't think so. But as many LEOs do, they used their status to intimidate folks into doing things that they don't legally need to do. Additionally, if they had just given you an explanation as to why they were asking you questions from the get-go, the situation would probably have been resolved quickly and to both party's satisfaction. The vagueness of the initial questioning just escalated the situation.

Now that said, had I been in that situation I would have behaved differently. Not saying you're wrong at all. My perspective is that these folks are out here to serve the public and provide safety to the citizens. I'm going to cooperate with them from the initial contact because I know I've done nothing wrong and if my cooperation helps them with whatever their issue is, then so be it. Yeah, I am forfeiting my constitutional rights here but that's my choice. And it's not for fear of the LEOs, it's just in the spirit of cooperation.

IMO, just move on and don't fret over this. It happened, you did nothing wrong and you have discovered how LEOs can get around constitutional rights. If it happens again, you have a choice: comply with the officers from the initial contact and cooperate with them or stick to your guns (metaphorically) and claim your rights as a citizen as your reason for not answering the LEO's questions. Neither choice is wrong and that's the beauty of living in this country: YOU HAVE A CHOICE!

Cheers!

Expand your moderator at work


Boooost

@76.65.143.x
reply to hortnut

Re: Detained by law enforcement

My favorite is the video of the guy having his car windows smashed and being dragged out of his car for being an a-hole. Serves him right.



hortnut
Huh?

join:2005-09-25
PNW
kudos:1
Reviews:
·Comcast
reply to Gaff

This? Multiple stops and getting a pass.

»www.youtube.com/watch?v=u4Ku17CqdZg


Gaff
Just like the gypsy woman said

join:1999-09-05
North TX, US
Reviews:
·Suddenlink
·VOIPO
·AT&T Southwest

1 edit
reply to Gaff

I know, but sometimes trolls need just a little feeding

I fail at pressing the correct Reply button, too.
--
My PC Gaming Blog
»www.unbooted.com



Wily_One
Premium
join:2002-11-24
San Jose, CA
Reviews:
·AT&T U-Verse
reply to Gaff

said by Gaff:

said by InigoMontoya:

I'd suggest professional help.

I've already spoken to an attorney about it.

I don't think that's what he meant.


Gaff
Just like the gypsy woman said

join:1999-09-05
North TX, US
Reviews:
·Suddenlink
·VOIPO
·AT&T Southwest
reply to InigoMontoya

said by InigoMontoya:

I'd suggest professional help.

I've already spoken to an attorney about it.
--
My PC Gaming Blog
»www.unbooted.com


Uh Nope

@178.20.55.x

1 recommendation

reply to Gaff

"I hope I have been noticed by them, and that they will remember my name in any future encounters we may have. I wanted attention drawn to it, and through my actions caused that to happen."

Sensibly speaking, I would think you'd want them out of your life not into your life.



InigoMontoya

join:2014-04-28
kudos:1

1 recommendation

reply to Gaff

said by Gaff:

It's the Sheriff's Department rather than the police, but you're right.

I hope I have been noticed by them, and that they will remember my name in any future encounters we may have. I wanted attention drawn to it, and through my actions caused that to happen.

Honestly, I wanted the video to see if I could make out what they were saying when they had their little conversation away from me the first time, or to see any other indication of why they stopped me. No dice on either point.

I'd suggest professional help.


Gaff
Just like the gypsy woman said

join:1999-09-05
North TX, US
Reviews:
·Suddenlink
·VOIPO
·AT&T Southwest
reply to towerdave

It's the Sheriff's Department rather than the police, but you're right.

I hope I have been noticed by them, and that they will remember my name in any future encounters we may have. I wanted attention drawn to it, and through my actions caused that to happen.

Honestly, I wanted the video to see if I could make out what they were saying when they had their little conversation away from me the first time, or to see any other indication of why they stopped me. No dice on either point.
--
My PC Gaming Blog
»www.unbooted.com


towerdave

join:2002-01-16
O Fallon, IL
reply to Gaff

said by Gaff:

said by Tex:

Otherwise, take what you've learned from the experience and get on with your life. I suggest the latter.

I suspect I'll receive no single better piece of advice than this.

Since I was the first to respond to your initial post, I'll respond to this one as well. My response then was snarky, admittedly. My response now is serious, which is that this is your best bet. In fact, I would have stopped before the FOIA request. All you've done is get yourself noticed by the police department, and not in a positive light.

Now, that's not to say that your rights weren't violated. I'm also not saying that you shouldn't be upset about what happened. That's up to you. But again, I'm not sure what purpose the FOIA request served other than to draw attention to yourself and your activities.

TD


Gaff
Just like the gypsy woman said

join:1999-09-05
North TX, US
Reviews:
·Suddenlink
·VOIPO
·AT&T Southwest
reply to Tex

said by Tex:

Otherwise, take what you've learned from the experience and get on with your life. I suggest the latter.

I suspect I'll receive no single better piece of advice than this.

I just have a hard time letting things go a lot of the time (you may have noticed), but perhaps it's time to draw a line under it and move on.
--
My PC Gaming Blog
»www.unbooted.com


InigoMontoya

join:2014-04-28
kudos:1
reply to Gaff

It sounds like you just want to test out the processes and procedures because there's nothing you can accomplish otherwise. If they did something wrong I can understand pursuing it but your efforts were just frivolous.



gaforces
United We Stand, Divided We Fall

join:2002-04-07
Santa Cruz, CA
reply to Gaff

Big waste of time and money. All you are doing is drawing bad attention to yourself for more wasted time.
If you pursue litigation and file complaints they will do investigation and find themselves free of any blame.
Even if you were in a state that was more friendly to civil rights you would lose.
--
Let them eat FIBER!



Tex
Premium
join:2012-10-20
kudos:2
reply to Gaff

said by Gaff:

So, long story short, I now have the footage and am wondering what to do with it, if anything.

You went through a lot of time and effort to acquire the videos and the police duty log. If you feel your civil liberties were violated (and I believe you do), you should consult with a private civil liberties attorney or you can contact the ACLU to see if this is something they would be interested in handling. Otherwise, take what you've learned from the experience and get on with your life. I suggest the latter.
--
Apple Creek Vineyard and Winery


Gaff
Just like the gypsy woman said

join:1999-09-05
North TX, US
Reviews:
·Suddenlink
·VOIPO
·AT&T Southwest
reply to Gaff

I doubt anyone is still following this, as it's certainly been a while.

Anywho, after umming and aaing about it I filed a FOIA request with the Sheriff's Department (actually in TX it's a Public Information Act request, but same difference) by fax seeking all of their records on me, particularly the video recordings.

I waited for couple of weeks, and then it became a month, before I figured out they just weren't going to respond to me. I then contacted the local District Attorney, as that was the first recommended course of action for an agency that does not respond to a lawful TXPIA request (I had the fax receipt so I know it was delivered).

Well a month after that I got nothing out of him either (seeing a pattern here?) so as a final move I contacted the Open Records Division of the Texas Attorney General's office seeking to file a formal complaint against the Sheriff's Department for non-compliance of the Texas Public Information Act. I received a call from one of the AG's attorneys asking how I wanted to proceed, and I told him a civil complaint for the time being, with the ultimate goal of just obtaining their compliance to my request.

Well the next day I receive an email from that attorney at the AG's office saying he has been in touch with the Sheriff's office and had the matter dealt with by the Sheriff himself. Today I received a Priority Mail package that I had to sign for that contained three CDs with video and audio footage, as well as a photocopied activity sheet showing where and on what day I was detained on their duty log.

So, long story short, I now have the footage and am wondering what to do with it, if anything. There's nothing on there that helps me or explains much. It just shows the officer going up and down past me, before he turns around and gets his friend to stop in front of me whilst he stops behind me and they sandwich me in the middle. The rest I have already explained in the first post.
--
My PC Gaming Blog
»www.unbooted.com



vircotto

join:2002-06-04
searching...
Reviews:
·Verizon FiOS
reply to Gaff

Hope this isn't too off topic, but I was talking to a friend out east in Baltimore about an event a few years ago where the MTA police stopped an out-of-town photographer from taking pictures of a train station in Baltimore. It blew up in the media and eventually the head of the MTA police had to admit that the person (and we all) have the right to take the pictures.

My friend said that the Baltimore Police Department has now put in writing a new policy that prohibits officers from stopping people from taping or photographing police actions (as long as you're in a place you are allowed to be in).


H_T_R_N
Premium
join:2011-12-06
Valencia, PA
kudos:1
reply to billydunwood

said by billydunwood:

No Victim=No Crime

Sorry I missed this.

billydunwood

join:2008-04-23
united state
kudos:2
reply to H_T_R_N

said by H_T_R_N:

said by billydunwood:

Treat others the way you want to be treated is my motto. If an officer is being an ass, he's getting it back. If he's nice, I will absolutely be nice. However, mean or nice I am NOT giving up my rights

It is really odd the mentality of some people. See around here if a LEO stops you its usually to say hi, or ask how your kids are doing. (and we don't even have a local police force, we are aided by the state police and other localities.) For a change of attitude, next time you see a LEO, stop and ask him his name introduce yourself and how things are going. It if harder to be a dick to someone when you know them and their family. Instead of hating the police force, get involved in the community, go to township meetings, meet the counselors and the other officials. Get to know the guys on the force. I know some can be dicks, but if you know the others and they know you, it deflates the dicks. I don't know all of them personally but they know who I am.

Belive me, I know and introduce myself just like you say. But I don't stay isolated in my small community. I go to the big cities and other cities. And yet again, if an officer(or anybody for that matter) comes off yelling, angry or mean, they are going to get it right back. If they come off nice, I am going to be nice. Respect is earned not given and it is a 2 way street. Your profession doesn't determine that.
--
No Victim=No Crime

H_T_R_N
Premium
join:2011-12-06
Valencia, PA
kudos:1
Reviews:
·voip.ms
reply to billydunwood

said by billydunwood:

Treat others the way you want to be treated is my motto. If an officer is being an ass, he's getting it back. If he's nice, I will absolutely be nice. However, mean or nice I am NOT giving up my rights

It is really odd the mentality of some people. See around here if a LEO stops you its usually to say hi, or ask how your kids are doing. (and we don't even have a local police force, we are aided by the state police and other localities.) For a change of attitude, next time you see a LEO, stop and ask him his name introduce yourself and how things are going. It if harder to be a dick to someone when you know them and their family. Instead of hating the police force, get involved in the community, go to township meetings, meet the counselors and the other officials. Get to know the guys on the force. I know some can be dicks, but if you know the others and they know you, it deflates the dicks. I don't know all of them personally but they know who I am.

Midniteoyl

join:2013-11-22
Knox, IN
kudos:1

1 recommendation

reply to Booost

There's protecting your rights, and then there's being an ass. Being drunk and stupid is not protecting your rights.


billydunwood

join:2008-04-23
united state
kudos:2
reply to ctggzg

said by ctggzg:

Whatever rights someone has or thinks they have, there's no reason to be an ass when nothing harmful or violating is being done to them, especially if they've allegedly done nothing wrong.

Treat others the way you want to be treated is my motto. If an officer is being an ass, he's getting it back. If he's nice, I will absolutely be nice. However, mean or nice I am NOT giving up my rights
--
No Victim=No Crime

ctggzg
Premium
join:2005-02-11
USA
kudos:2
reply to Gaff

Whatever rights someone has or thinks they have, there's no reason to be an ass when nothing harmful or violating is being done to them, especially if they've allegedly done nothing wrong.



Booost

@151.190.40.x
reply to 8744675

Happened here on Saturday:

quote:
Marques told police that he didn't have to provide an ID, since all he was doing was "yelling loudly and joking around," police said. Officers also noted that his breath smelled of alcohol, according to the report. Police gave the man multiple opportunities to fork over an ID, according to the report, but Marques started yelling, "I don't have to!" Police arrested Marques and charged him with obstruction and disorderly conduct.
»www.nj.com/hudson/index.ssf/2014···out.html

8744675

join:2000-10-10
Decatur, GA
reply to towerdave

Just doing what your told by the cops is how they get away with the crap they do. They break the law and then find ways to justify their actions. Being complacent is being complicit with their unlawful detainment, searches and questioning and just emboldens them even more.

That's how we've reached the point where where everyone is labeled as a "terrorist" by law enforcement for petty things like talking back, and the NSA knows what time you take a piss every day.

Expand your moderator at work


Thaler
Premium
join:2004-02-02
Los Angeles, CA
kudos:3
reply to KingsAgain

Re: Detained by law enforcement

said by KingsAgain:

I don't get what the big deal is. Why do you feel the need to be above the law? Is your goal in life to feel superior to others? Or is it to live comfortably?

With that logic, we might as well erase the 4th amendment completely.


Thaler
Premium
join:2004-02-02
Los Angeles, CA
kudos:3
reply to Gaff

Kinda amused at the replies assuming that the cops wouldn't have given you any guff had you presented the ID at the first request. The fact that they stalked you proves that they had more than a glancing hunch, or were just power tripping. Either way, they were going to give you crap. Going above and beyond what's constitutionally required to comply with law enforcement makes their lives easier, not yours.



AppleGuy
Premium
join:2013-09-08
Canada
Reviews:
·WIND Mobile
·Rogers Hi-Speed
·voip.ms
reply to Gaff

Not sure that I'd have done the same thing, but probably would after what your wrote.

However, my reasoning would be entirely different. I've gotten to that point i life where I believe people should work for their money. The cops that detained you worked for their money. And that is all I want to see in life now. Too many lazy people out there.


billydunwood

join:2008-04-23
united state
kudos:2
reply to ImpetusEra

said by ImpetusEra:

I don't disagree with any of that. I'd rather not be in their database, who would? For me the warrants aren't a concern since I have none but obviously some people do so it is. So as it is it should be expected if you were to refuse to provide ID as the OP did and impede their ability to check you for active warrants it's not unreasonable to expect they might not just accept your refusal and move on. I personally prefer to just do what needs to be done at the moment to produce a favorable outcome for me. I just don't see anything productive coming from arguing with an officer in the moment. I feel they will get what they want then or keep an eye on you for the future so why ruffle their feathers? If you disagree with their actions or methods make it known to their superiors after the fact is my opinion. Maybe the department policies need changing or the particular officer requires some training. I just think it's moot point arguing that with the officer.

It would be a favorable outcome for me because I would say this: "I don't consent to searches, I don't answer questions, I dont have to provide my ID" and I walk away. That takes less time then giving them your id and having them run it. If I did something wrong, I have no problem giving them my ID(but i still refuse searches and questions). But unlike a lot of people, I know my rights, I know the case law regarding them and I know to never consent a search or answer questions.
--
No Victim=No Crime