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JMJimmy

join:2008-07-23
Reviews:
·TekSavvy DSL
reply to resa1983

Re: Voltage vs Teksavvy decision

Just finished reading the order and I have to say it blows my mind.

128-132 is key. The judge states that the reference cases he's using from the US and UK place a secondary importance on privacy and using it as a shield for wrongdoing. However, admits that those cases do not address the uncertainties in identifying any potential wrongdoer and that protecting the privacy rights of the potentially innocent account holder simply doesn't matter if it *could* lead to information.

It's like, not exactly like, saying to a witness of a crime "sorry, you no longer have any privacy rights now so we can search your place to find out if you know anything about this crime you happened to be near". Absolutely mind boggling how, simply because something is digital, established law no longer applies.

132 and other sections/statements by this judge really blow my mind "The real question is the form of remedy" Seriously? It sounds like he's already decided who's won/lost and that this is the only possible form of remedy available.



cdnprt

@pppoe.ca
reply to resa1983

This is not that bad. It actually prevents trolls. These guys are in it for a quick buck with very few upfront costs. Their strategy is

1) Get IPs
2) Send threatening letter
3) Never go to court, and hope they get enough people to pay $1-5K in settlement

Now they can't do that. To get IPs they need to pay approx $100. In addition these people rely on threatening letter where they play loose with facts. This letter needs court approval with disclaimers so its effectiveness now is lessened. Add to the fact the maximum they could get is $5K it means going to court makes no sense.

Pretty much kills the troll industry. I doubt they pursue this any further.



hmm

@videotron.ca
reply to resa1983

said by resa1983:

The 3 months is roughly from collecting bittorrent log, to suing. Teksavvy has to keep all records until the case is closed I do believe.

Yes, true. You are right.

But it has to move forward Voltage just can't sit and wait forever.

I think the new law requires TSI to retain records of people accused for 6 months or a year (I recall two specific time frames in the new copyright law, but would have to re-read it all, and i'm too lazy for that).

So it is possible that TSI and all these people may be waiting up to 6 months to know what is going on. Or 6 months to find out if TSI got paid for this to move forward.


Slightlyborg

@ustomer-incero.com
reply to cdnprt

> I doubt they pursue this any further.

I don't know about that, they have already sunk a lot of money into this adventure, that can create a momentum that defies sense.

I also suspect their lawyers will egg it on, after all they get paid either way.

They might proceed just to see if they can make it work.

Also they're slimy, it's all they know how to do, crooks do all kinds of stupid things and lose all the time, doesn't stop them.


JMJimmy

join:2008-07-23
reply to hmm

I could also be argued that TSI's costs have already been incurred regardless of whether Voltage wishes to proceed they're on the hook.



hmm

@videotron.ca

said by JMJimmy:

I could also be argued that TSI's costs have already been incurred regardless of whether Voltage wishes to proceed they're on the hook.

For sure. TSI could be out of pocket 200K in all this. It was a lot of time, effort, resources and man-power (which for some strange, odd, and twisted reason certain people think this is all free, or should be).

If they run away, TSI should go after them for costs. If they don't, then on the next attempt TSI can show proof and demand money upfront before any ruling to get names or not. One can't be expected to work for free for some American trolling payola scheme.

Lots of situations develop depending on what goes down. Either way it goes, TSI put in real and big money here.


elwoodblues
Elwood Blues
Premium
join:2006-08-30
Somewhere in
kudos:2

They can't run away, TSI has to be paid up front according to the ruling.
--
My Name is Wiley E Coyote, Super Genius



hmm

@videotron.ca

said by elwoodblues:

They can't run away, TSI has to be paid up front according to the ruling.

UP FRONT to *get* the names. No?

Yes, they can run away.

Rastan

join:2007-04-25
Canada
Reviews:
·TekSavvy DSL
·voip.ms
reply to resa1983

Although Voltage Pictures has to word their demand letters in a way that satisfies the court, there doesn't appear to be anything in place that will monitor other forms of communication they may have with these TSI subscribers. If Voltage Pictures wants to be sneaky, they can send a very serious, yet vague letter to each subscriber and advise them that they should contact them by phone to discuss matters further. Once they have them on the phone, they can make threatening and absurd statements that exaggerate the severity of the infringement and pressure them into settling for $2000-$4000.

The restrictions really need to go further otherwise Voltage will find a way to conduct business the way they usually do. Let's hope that these restrictions have some teeth and don't turn out to be nothing more than a nuisance to these copyright trolls.


JMJimmy

join:2008-07-23

If their lawyers want to get disbarred they can do that. In the real world they can't.



hmm

@videotron.ca
reply to hmm

Court tells Canadian company to reveal customers who downloaded movies
»www.theglobeandmail.com/technolo···7025513/

Mr. Zibarras said users who infringed copyright could face a maximum financial penalty of $5,000 under Canadian law, depending on how many movies they downloaded.

So they gave some of their strategy here. The bean counters will group people by profitable and non-profitable and try and make the system work by how many movies you DL'd. I don't see the Max of 5K happening. Someone would have to be a mouthy ass in court to get the max.



trolls_f_off

@mit.edu
reply to elwoodblues

said by elwoodblues:

They can't run away, TSI has to be paid up front according to the ruling.

There is a window to fold up troll's shop. Small window was given by a Judge. Otherwise, risk to spend more then trolls are planning to extort out of people is very high.


Guspaz
Guspaz
Premium,MVM
join:2001-11-05
Montreal, QC
kudos:23
reply to resa1983

They have to pay TekSavvy for the entire set of IPs, since TekSavvy already incurred all their costs. They can't just pick and choose. And since TSI incurred a few hundred grand in retrieval costs alone (before even paying the lawyers), and considering that it's very unlikely the judges would award anybody $5000, and that Voltage will have to pay the lawyers to sue any infringer individually... I don't see how even multiple movie downloads make it worth it to them.

Is there a rule that says if your damage claims are under the small claims amount, that you need to pursue your case via small claims court? If you sue me for one movie download, and the maximum damage is $5,000, that's less than the $7,000 small claims limit.
--
Latest version of CapSavvy systray usage checker: »CapSavvy v4.2 released!



Guspaz
Guspaz
Premium,MVM
join:2001-11-05
Montreal, QC
kudos:23
reply to trolls_f_off

While this sucks for TekSavvy, it would effectively indicate that copyright trolling was dead in Canada. I'd like to think Marc (owner of TekSavvy) would consider that money well spent.
--
Latest version of CapSavvy systray usage checker: »CapSavvy v4.2 released!



AppleGuy
Premium
join:2013-09-08
Canada
reply to resa1983

If I am reading this correctly, it's a moot victory for Voltage as it seems that it might be just t0o costly for them to bother. Am I right or no?



AppleGuy
Premium
join:2013-09-08
Canada
Reviews:
·WIND Mobile
·Rogers Hi-Speed
·voip.ms
reply to trolls_f_off

said by trolls_f_off :

said by hmm :

That means they only need to extort 260$ per IP to break even, and for Logan to walk away with $100+grand.

It's a taxable income so... these f....rs need more beans in their basket...

Taxable income for who? If someone wins a case in court, it's not taxable.


lugnut

@communications.com
reply to resa1983

Isn't singling out 2000 users out of 100-whatever-thousand considered "cruel and unusual punishment" under the charter?

Here's hoping they drag this out to SCOC.

Either punish ALL downloaders or else shut up and smile.

The only reason the MAFIAA's get away with this crud is because Joe Average taxpayer has no clue that his teenaged son or daughter is making him liable for a $5000 fine.



AppleGuy
Premium
join:2013-09-08
Canada
Reviews:
·WIND Mobile
·Rogers Hi-Speed
·voip.ms
reply to Guspaz

You know, likely there is enough people out there who are not knowledgable enough and might get a notice from Voltage for an "out of court" settlement. Depending on the amount, some people just might pay it thinking it's better than seeing a courtroom. I just hope most people are educated enough to trash any notices they get.

Does anyone know the penalty if Voltage doesn't follow the court agreement?


vincom

join:2009-03-06
Bolton, ON
kudos:1
reply to resa1983

my wifi router was hacked at the time of infringement, probably by the Chinese or nsa


peterboro
Avatars are for posers
Premium
join:2006-11-03
Peterborough, ON

I don't know how to put in a password in a routing device and just found out it has been open for years it's sitting on the shelf to bring down to court, I will subpoena my fellow CanChatters who will testify how clueless I am when it comes to technology.



TSI Marc
Premium,VIP
join:2006-06-23
Chatham, ON
kudos:26

Blog: »Blog - New safeguards discourage copyright trolling..

--
Marc - CEO/TekSavvy


militiamen

join:2007-07-02
Canada
reply to MichelR

I haven't seen Dallas Buyers Club. Regardless of the ratings the Hurt Locker was mediocrity at its finest



trolls_f_off

@178.20.55.x

IMHO entire list of crap that Voltage trolls are trying to extort people for is a complete waste of time. Titles tell it all:

Generation Um … (2012)
Tucker & Dale vs Evil (2010)
The Whistleblower (2010)
True Justice: Brotherhood (2010)
The Third Act aka The Magic of Belle Isle (2012)
Breathless (2012)
Peace Love & Misunderstanding (2011)
Conviction (2010)
The Good Doctor (2011)
Faces in the Crowd (2011)
Rosewood Lane (2011)
Puncture (2011)
Another Happy Day aka Reasonable Bunch (2011)
The Barrens (2012)
True Justice: Lethal Justice (2010)
True Justice: Blood Alley (2010)
Killer Joe (2011)
Maximum Conviction (2012)
Fire with Fire (2012)
Rites of Passage (2012)
True Justice: Urban Warfare (2010)
True Justice: Deadly Crossing (2010)
Rites of Passage AKA Party Killers (2012)
Balls to the Wall (2011)
Sacrifice (2011)
Escapee (2011)

All are loosing titles. Production costs always way higher then sales hence the extortion scheme, look up those ridiculous numbers on the internet.

Personally I am not watching any hollywood crap for at least 2 years now. I am tired of same old "superman story" sometimes peppered with lame ass-related humor. I am reading books instead, mostly classics and European authors in 3 languages I can speak, read and write. So hollywood can simply f.. off. BTW same goes to music companies that in 99% of cases produce pure garbage. I buy music directly from musicians I am interested in so money goes directly to people that make this music. Same goes to TV - I am not watching ads, TV people can shove ads they know where.



Guspaz
Guspaz
Premium,MVM
join:2001-11-05
Montreal, QC
kudos:23
reply to AppleGuy

said by AppleGuy:

You know, likely there is enough people out there who are not knowledgable enough and might get a notice from Voltage for an "out of court" settlement. Depending on the amount, some people just might pay it thinking it's better than seeing a courtroom. I just hope most people are educated enough to trash any notices they get.

Does anyone know the penalty if Voltage doesn't follow the court agreement?

If they demanded a $1000 settlement (which is ten times what they'd likely get in court), they would have to get a few hundred people to settle just to cover TekSavvy's costs, let alone all of the money it cost them to take the case this far to begin with.
--
Latest version of CapSavvy systray usage checker: »CapSavvy v4.2 released!


trolls_f_off

@mit.edu

said by Guspaz:

If they demanded a $1000 settlement (which is ten times what they'd likely get in court), they would have to get a few hundred people to settle just to cover TekSavvy's costs, let alone all of the money it cost them to take the case this far to begin with.

Text of extortion letter is going to be controlled by the appointed case Judge, approved by CIPPIC and TSI lawyers. That is in case voltage trolls are going to proceed after bean counting. So $1000 of the bat sounds way too high if there is no real evidence that all 1100 subscribers downloaded voltage's dumb crap.

Ree

join:2007-04-29
h0h0h0
kudos:1
Reviews:
·Start Communicat..
reply to trolls_f_off

said by trolls_f_off :

said by humanfilth:

People download programs without a clue on settings and get bit in the ass.

There are uTorrent mods that do not upload any content (i.e. 2.0.4).

Don't need a mod. Just set number of upload slots to 0 (which does not mean unlimited, as it does with other settings).


AppleGuy
Premium
join:2013-09-08
Canada
Reviews:
·WIND Mobile
·Rogers Hi-Speed
·voip.ms
reply to trolls_f_off

Not if they do it outside the realms of the court, and warn the perps that this is a "least costly settlement" for a potentially "more costly" court case.

I'm saying that their are ways for them to skirt around the court, and start real low, like $50...gage reaction...got to $150...gage reaction You get to a point were 50% are saying "na" and you have had enough word on the street of what others were willing to pay, and on the web too.

Think of this "We'll settle without court for $1,000" .. "No way, my buddy settled for $350 and I downloaded way less!" .. "So does $325 sound fair then?" .. "NO...I'll give $250 and call it a day"


vincom

join:2009-03-06
Bolton, ON
kudos:1

ill give nada, my router was hacked



AppleGuy
Premium
join:2013-09-08
Canada

I had unexplained usage one month...i think someone cloned my MAC address.

Of course, there are other outlets that work better and are pretty cheap and give you what you want.



HiVolt
Premium
join:2000-12-28
Toronto, ON
kudos:21

Here's a good video to watch on the subject.

»www.cbc.ca/player/News/Technolog···9018466/
--