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rfhar
The World Sport, Played In Every Country
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Buicktown,Mi

3 edits

rfhar

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[WIN7] Messed up RAID; How to fix? Do you understand Win7 software RAID?

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I have been swimming in a sea of Linux ignorance via VirtualBox and a USB flash drive and am wondering if I somehow messed up the RAID 1 setting on my HHD's.
This RAID is via Windows. I hope that the pictures give enough info. I have some backups (Macrium Reflect) set to go to drive E that spilled the beans on this as the drives now have two more showing that were hidden.

What to do?
Any options if things are difficult?

EDIT... info learned.

My "C" partition (disk 0) is what I am booting off of and it has a 100 MB hidden System Reserved partition not shown by right clicking on "My Computer".

The System Reserved "E" partition is the partition that should be hidden and is part of the Disk 1. This followed by Local Disk "F" which should be a clone of Local Disk "C" partition above and also is in disk 1.

"G" & "H" are two exterior HD's and "D" is my CD/DVD.

I have a backup scheduled to weekly image my files to my formerly "E" external HD but after I lost my RAID 1 setup the drive numbers changed and it tried to go to The (new) "E " drive which is a 100 MB System Reserved partition. In the process "F" which should be a clone of "C" can not even be looked at in any way I know and "E" which should be a clone of the disk 0 hidden partition has been written to and should only have 34.3 MB written to it but has 68.3 on it.

I have waited for info because fifty years ago I started to learn how dangerous a little knowledge can be. If All else fails I will try to format the new "E" and "F" and reduce them to one partition on disk 0 and schedule a backup to it quite often. That should make it easier to dual boot up Linux Mint on the same drive also. I have much to learn.
bgraham2
join:2001-03-15
Smithtown, NY

bgraham2

Member

Re: [WIN7] Messed up RAID ! ? How to fix? Or do you have a better idea?

I think you need to tell us if you have a hardware raid controller or a "Fake Raid" controller.

I use a Silicon image hardware raid board that has RAID pair recovery built into the BIOS.

My ASUS motherboard had fake or software raid, (I don't use the RAID feature) and making a RAID pair formats both drives, so then you have to restore from a backup.

rfhar
The World Sport, Played In Every Country
Premium Member
join:2001-03-26
Buicktown,Mi

rfhar

Premium Member

This RAID is via Windows.
It would be a software RAID.
I have a lot to learn about RAID. Until last fall I did not know there was more than type.
Maybe I will just have to fix the second HD to be viewable and format it and set up a backup schedule to happen often?
bgraham2
join:2001-03-15
Smithtown, NY

bgraham2 to rfhar

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to rfhar
What's the make and model number of the motherboard?

rfhar
The World Sport, Played In Every Country
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join:2001-03-26
Buicktown,Mi

rfhar

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Biostar H77MU3 But the RAID was software via Windows 7.
bgraham2
join:2001-03-15
Smithtown, NY

bgraham2 to rfhar

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to rfhar
According to the mother board manual it uses Intel Rapid Storage Technology (Intel® RST)

The manual for which is at the link below.
»download.intel.com/suppo ··· uide.pdf

I read a quick glance and the directions seem to be listed below.
----------------------------------
3.2 Enabling RAID in BIOS
Note: The instructions to enable RAID in the BIOS are specific to motherboards manufactured by Intel with a supported Intel chipset. The specific BIOS settings on non-Intel motherboards may differ. Refer to the motherboard documentation or contact the motherboard manufacturer or your place of purchase for specific instructions. Always follow the instructions that are provided with your motherboard.
Depending on your Intel motherboard model, enable RAID by following either of the steps below.
1. Press the F2 key after the Power-On-Self-Test (POST) memory test begins.
2. Select the Configuration menu, then the SATA Drives menu.
3. Set the Chipset SATA Mode to RAID.
4. Press the F10 key to save the BIOS settings and exit the BIOS Setup program.
OR
1. Press the F2 key after the Power-On-Self-Test (POST) memory test begins.
2. Select the Advanced menu, then the Drive Configuration menu.
3. Set the Drive Mode option to Enhanced.
4. Enable Intel® RAID Technology.
5. Press the F10 key to save the BIOS settings and exit the BIOS Setup program.
----------------------------------
The Raid controller accepts all RAID migrations from Intel Raid chipsets, so I would hope that you can just set up the 2 drives as 1 Raid drive. The list of chipsets that are compatible are here.
»www.intel.com/support/ch ··· 0674.htm

I would definitely back up everything from disk 0 and /or 1 before I remade the Raid set.

Hope all this helps

rfhar
The World Sport, Played In Every Country
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join:2001-03-26
Buicktown,Mi

rfhar

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bgraham;

I am happy to have the information you have provided and have sitemarked it for future use and I mean years ahead also.
But... In my last computer I had RAID also, but I lost both HD"s and much of the info although I was able to get most of it back with this computer and a external HD encloser. This is how I learned that there are three types of RAID. The RAID in this computer is/was the Software type via Windows. I have done something to mess up the software RAID.

Look at the pictures above and maybe I will be able to explain good enough so that my problem can be understood by the notes below.

My "C" partition (disk 0) is what I am booting off of and it has a 100 MB hidden System Reserved partition not shown by right clicking on "My Computer".

The System Reserved "E" partition is the partition that should be hidden and is part of the Disk 1. This followed by Local Disk "F" which should be a clone of Local Disk "C" partition above and also is in disk 1.

"G" & "H" are two exterior HD's and "D" is my CD/DVD.

I have a backup scheduled to weekly image my files to my formerly "E" external HD but after I lost my RAID 1 setup the drive numbers changed and it tried to go to The (new) "E " drive which is a 100 MB System Reserved partition. In the process "F" which should be a clone of "C" can not even be looked at in any way I know and "E" which should be a clone of the disk 0 hidden partition has been written to and should only have 34.3 MB written to it but has 68.3 on it.

I wanted to post this info first thing this morning but we had some stuff I "must do now" and I had to because if I got started on the computer they may not have been done.

I have waited for info because fifty years ago I started to learn how dangerous a little knowledge can be. If All else fails I will try to format the new "E" and "F" and reduce them to one partition on disk 0 and schedule a backup to it quite often. That should make it easier to dual boot up Linux Mint on the same drive also. I have much to learn.

Thanks for your input. I hope that I have been able to adequately explain all that I have figured out about my problem now.
rfhar

rfhar

Premium Member

More info from today's try;

If I right-click on the "F" drive and click on properties both Free and Used space are zero but the disk color is fully blue indicating that it is full. If I try too open the "F" drive it brings up a small window;

F:\ is not accessible.

Access is denied.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
IF I right-click on the "E" drive it the properties show 68.3 used and 31.6 free. IF I try to open "E" it is empty.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
In Linux both the "System Reserved" and the "Local Disk" show for both disk's but all have slightly different used and free space and one System Reserved partition has a Recycle folder but it does not have an evident way to restore the files and I cannot see where they would go by comparing the two Reserved partitions.
rfnut
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Fisher, IL

rfnut to rfhar

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to rfhar

Re: [WIN7] Messed up RAID; How to fix? Do you understand Win7 software RAID?

I am a little confused. What is the problem? Or what are you trying to get back too. I assume by RAID you mean you created a "New Mirrored Volume" using Windows by right clicking on drive 1 and selecting create "New Mirrored Volume" .

Does the system still boot? Based on your images, the system is still functional and the second disk is still a mirror(?) but is no longer hidden by Windows. It could still be part of the raid set but probably not. Are you just wanting your drive letters back to what they used to be?

If the system is still functional, a guess at a quick fix may be:
Physically remove second drive (disk 1) and reboot. If the system fails, then more work needs done. put disk back in and reboot.
If the system is stable and normal with no loss of files without disk 1, than the OS etc is OK and you can put the second disk back and simply create new mirrored volume on it again.

rfhar
The World Sport, Played In Every Country
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join:2001-03-26
Buicktown,Mi

rfhar

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The problem is that RAID has failed or stopped working. If RAID were working you would not see a System Reserved partition "E" nor the "F" partition. RAID is setup when installing Windows, How I do not know as this was done for me on this and the last computer I bought. Yes the computer boots off of the "C" Partition on Disk 0. Disk 1 "E" & "F" should be invisible and a duplicate of Disk 1. It no longer is either. On a RAID system if one HD fails the other will still work and if one has it set up to know that RAID has failed one can pull the failed HD and replace it and the RAID will rebuild itself.

I want to get back to having RAID working again. IF that is not possible maybe someone can tell me how to format Disk 1. I can only access the System Reserved "E" portion of it. The "F" drive shown above is the Local Disk portion of it and it cannot be accessed.
rfnut
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join:2002-04-27
Fisher, IL

rfnut to rfhar

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In Disk management, is the option to "add mirror" for disk 1 greyed out? If so you may have to take it offline and delete volumes, then "Add Mirror" again to get a the windows raid back.

I will repeat again that I would still physically remove the drive and verify that the system is operating ok on the single drive. Just for sanity, in case any system files or other required stuff might be moved by the messed up backups.

rfhar
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rfhar

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Thanks I will get to that as soon as I can. I am learning again as usual. I did not know of that option in Disk Management. But... I am wondering if it will work since I cannot even look at the Local Disk part of disk 1.
rfnut
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Fisher, IL

rfnut

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Its the same place you make a windows raid so I assumed you knew where things were. and just because you can see it, does not mean the raid is not working. It just means you can see the partitions now. That is why I have suggested verifying that it works with one drive only. I do not want you to break anything and lose data.
rfnut

rfnut to rfhar

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to rfhar
By the way. Here is a good MS link for managing arrays. At the bottom it shows what a broken raid looks like and what to do.

»technet.microsoft.com/en ··· 559.aspx

rfhar
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join:2001-03-26
Buicktown,Mi

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rfhar

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Had to get granddaughter from school. Then I am doing a backup of my "C" to "G".
This time when I went to Computer Management and It told me that the "F" partition had a files in it's Recycle Bin I let it recover them. I was afraid to do so earlier. I did not want my ignorance to make things worse. now we can see the properties and it is no where near an image that it was when RAID was working. The used files should be the sane as the "C" .

I cannot find an option for add mirror any where.

I will be back in the morning to look at the other info you posted. Oh yes, there is no way I have found to access the "F" partition even to format it.

>>>>win7 -64 HP here.

norwegian
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Outback

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I feel you need to rebuild it too.
However, if you want to be safe run into the hardware help forum and have someone go through testing each drive off line.
You can create a boot disk from the hard drive manufacturer to test each off line.
If 1 fails, you know which one to pull out.
Theoretically the good one should then become accessible.
However raid is raid and I hope you have backups in place.

Note: One thing to point out, you do not know what the system maker set up raid block size as, so removing drives and rebuilding the raid which I've done even on raid 0 (as long as you do not delete data), you can not set the block size for the raid without risking loosing all data. Be the block size "auto", "128kb", "64kb" etc.
I would guess at "automatic", but it is not always the case.
The moment block size changes, all data is lost.
rfnut
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Fisher, IL

rfnut to rfhar

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I just noticed you are thinking at at a different level. The RAID you are used too is nót a copy of your c onto your f. It is a different type of mirror. It is a lower level not file system level. It is a mirror of the drive itself and partitons are not relevant. You do not need to fix anything on hd1. The link i put up applIes to Win7 as well as server. It shows in disk management where to find the raid setup info.

rfhar
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Buicktown,Mi

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rfhar

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I looked at this thread briefly before going to bed.
I run the Western Digital Data Diagnostic Lifeguard tool on both of the drives. All the Smart data is OK so I run the Quick test on both and all is well with that test also.

Notice that I can format "F" now, also "E" (the System Reserved for "F").
Also the System Reserved for Disk 0 has 34.3 MB used and The System Reserved for Disk 1 (E) has 68.3 MB used. So The "E" partition (Disk 1) has definitely been written to.

What would happen if I copied the disk 0 SR to the disk 1 SR and/or copied the Disk 0 (C) to disk 1 (F) partition...after formatting of course? I have never formatted a HD. I think that my scheduled Files and folders backup is what mess these two partitions up. What messed up RAID I could not but guess. Maybe because I did something while running Linux Mint off A flash drive. If worse comes to worse I can format the disk 1 and redo all MY backup schedules and use it for backups and Linux but I like the RAID idea. It will add more safety for my wife's book she is working on.

Again I cannot see a mirror command.
I will go over the link again tomorrow morning. I am up by five AM, that is why I like to shut down by five PM.

norwegian
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join:2005-02-15
Outback

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norwegian

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I'm not sure why your 2nd 'system reserved' became a labelled hard drive.
It should not show as one, even though it is 'part' of one.
Would taking away the drive letter and then labeling F:\ as E:\ work?

I would not want to mess with your data without getting someone to look more into this that does know more.

For me I'd play and work it out or start again.
For you, I think you might need to think seriously on the next step, especially since you say the drives are returning good smart data, but have you had anyone confirm this?

Note: Somehow, what ever was the cause in your play with VM's and what ever you were doing, it has identified the second mirror drive as it's own unique drive, however it is not and hence the problem you see.
rfnut
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join:2002-04-27
Fisher, IL

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rfnut to rfhar

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said by rfhar:

What messed up RAID I could not but guess.

All this is based on your original "Windows" RAID statement, as in the RAID was created using windows. If your RAID was initially setup in the BIOS before installing windows, none of this applies or is relevant.

When you were messing with / booting Linux, the disks were written too and next time windows was booted it detected 2 basic disks instead of one "RAID Volume" on 2 mirrored "Dynamic" disks. That is why mirror is not available in your menu now and you now have 2 "basic" disks with windows seeing new drive and partitions and labling them. ( under Disk 0 and Disk 1 your picture shows the word Basic.) Windows RAID requires Dynamic disks. I have had this happen numerous times, imaging raid systems and booting recovery systems. Windows has a wonderful ability to look past RAID headers sometimes on RAID 1 and decide on its own that there are 2 separate disks. I do not know why, and do not care. I just know it happens, especially if the RAID set has been touched by another OS.

If you want to continue to boot an OS from USB or build a dual boot system, I would not attempt to get the windows RAID back. It will break again without precautions. RAID at that level should be done at the BIOS level, so both OS's can see it equally with their own drivers.

I am not sure if you delete all the partitions on Disk 1 if you will get the option to Mirror back. Right clicking on the grey area under the words Disk 0 or 1 gives you different options than clicking on a partition. Converting back to dynamic disks may not be an option anymore either if the basic partitions do not have the space.

Personally I do not think Windows RAID is your best solution. Use your Disk 1 as 1st place to store your backups. Sync disk 1 with your external disk manually and frequently and you then will have 2 recent backups available at all times. I would also unhook / unplug the USB drive when not backing up so a lightning hit to the home can not wipe out all 3. That is just my opinion though.

rfhar
The World Sport, Played In Every Country
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join:2001-03-26
Buicktown,Mi

rfhar

Premium Member

OK... I got a late start today because other responsibilities and after reading your post above I am glad. Mid Michigan is pothole hell this year and I have yet to find out what the rim repair/replace will cost. I have been considering adding a third HD for Linux, now I will skip it and redo my backup schedules. But I still have to somehow get access to the "F" partition on disk 1 so as to be able to use it but now I will not be so cautious because how can I make it worse? (knock on wood) Last summer when I took my computer in for repair because both RAID HD's failed I did not know that there was more than one type of RAID. Next time it will be BIOS RAID. This MoBo has it and I wish it had been done via the MoBo last summer. The only thing I really need RAID for is my wife's book and I have told her that she is to tell me anytime she works on it and I will manually back it up. I have Memeo on here but we lost two weeks of her work last time because of a double failure. now I have Macrium Reflect also but the way it works one can lose a lot of work if one has a problem.

I spent forty years working for GM as an electrician many on PLC's. One line actually booted up into Windows to load the controls program. I have a spike suppressor on my main panel and a suppressor type extension cord on every electronic thing in the house. A lighting strike can get to your equipment through the wiring in the walls. My computer has an APC UPS on it.

You hit the nail on the head about the likely cause of my RAID problem. I have a wallpaper folder on the root of the "C" partition and copied it to Linux Mint. I later copied it to my USB2 120 external HD. I guess that would have been the better approach in the first place as I have used the 120 drive to transfer files and info between both Windows and Linux.

Now to try and make the "E" and "F" drives useful. And pick up a copy of Partition Magic.

Thanks for all the help guys, I really appreciate it. And rfnut I will take your advice and also use the link you gave to the MS Tecknet site to learn mare about RAID.
rfhar

2 edits

rfhar

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Getting access to the "F" drive was simple. I run a fast format on it and now I can look at it. The "E" partition will not format (Yet, I will try it in Mint.) because " This operation did not complete because the label supplied is not valid.

I tried to change the drive letters. "E" changed to "O" OK but "F" will not change because "The parameter is incorrect" Changing this to "E" would save me from changing all my scheduled stuff.

When I went into "E" and "F" there was in "Properties> Disk Cleanup> View Files two jpg files shown in the Recycle Bin.

Edit...I tried to change the letter on the "F" partition and failed then tried to copy a file to it and it is not accessible again. The old "E" now "O" took a file.

Time for a break!

norwegian
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join:2005-02-15
Outback

norwegian

Premium Member


You should be able to format E: and F: then rebuild the array but believe rfnut has raised a valid point on how you approach going forward.

It may actually mean for safety and functionality looking at a pci-e raid card to run your raid 1 off.
That way you should be able to run multiple HD's and O/S's all off this system.
rfnut
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join:2002-04-27
Fisher, IL

rfnut to rfhar

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to rfhar
Instead of formating "E" and "F", how about deleting Volumes. When you right click the partition in Disk MAnager, you should have the option to delete volume. Do this for E (now O) and F. you should end up with an entire disk of Unallocated space; ie an empty unformatted disk. You can then do whatever you decide. Even Mirror should become available again. If you go about messing with these partitions in Mint, remember there are many more options to linux some of which windows will not recognize.

rfhar
The World Sport, Played In Every Country
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join:2001-03-26
Buicktown,Mi

rfhar

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Sounds good, thanks again.
I have not formatted a disk for several years before floppies went out of style and when CD's first came out I tried a read-write a couple times and then discarded them.

What should I know before I format the one tetra drive? Like I expect that it may ask me about sector sizes.
rfnut
Premium Member
join:2002-04-27
Fisher, IL

rfnut

Premium Member

Jusr Follow the wizards. Keep it simple. Defaults should all be ok.

rfhar
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join:2001-03-26
Buicktown,Mi

rfhar

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Went through that this morning very fast. I now have a single new "E"partition of the full disk. I did not get a mirror choice but it offers to shrink the volume. Maybe the mirror will appear if I change it to have two partitions like my "C" partition? I can enable my backup schedules now if I want to but am going to take my time and study the BIOS RAID. I will print out the info above and Google for more after looking in my MoBo BIOS again. I am going to relax and not do anything in a hurry and you both likely know me enough to understand why now. I have a lot to learn. Years ago I read a article where a Physicist stated that for every question they get an answer to along come many more questions.

Now is the best time to add a dual boot with Linux Mint before doing anything more or at least I must learn more.

My attraction to Linux Mint is that in 10% of the space of Win7's windows folder it has the whole operating system and the equivalent of every program I bought from Microsoft without all the bloat and be able to buy a cheap laptop with the software money saved. It appears that one can buy a computer with Windows on it cheaper than without Windows but if one builds or has a computer built then Linux is fine. My technophobic wife could use a Linux Mint machine. That written I will likely always have Windows.

'c'

norwegian
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Outback

norwegian

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To be honest: Lean and move on.

Know now you do not need 2 machines.
Yes it might help if you work simultaneously.
Know now you can do it for half the price of 2 machines but might need to spend a little to reconfigure.

So it comes down to time versus cost and also needs for you both.
If it was only this easy all of the time.

But then raid 0 +1, raid 5 or raid 10 might be what you end up looking at.
Back up, experiment, and test.
Just do the first no matter what.
rfnut
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join:2002-04-27
Fisher, IL

rfnut to rfhar

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to rfhar
Take your time, but do backups first. Word of advice. Look at your backup plan again. I have seen way too many cases of "backups" that are worthless. If you have never restored one of your backups, are you sure they are working? Are you backing up everything you need OR want to get back to working again as you expect? Have you ever restored it just so you know what to expect and prove it can be done? Are you 100% sure what you are doing for backup will be what you expect if the system fails ( ie HD failure?). Many people misunderstand what they are backing up thinking an entire system can be restored from a backup of "My Documents".

Think about it and look at the big picture now, before going forward, because dual boot / Linux will make things a bit more complicated.

rfhar
The World Sport, Played In Every Country
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Buicktown,Mi

rfhar

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I am not going to hurry. I want to think about every move.
Been there done that with the backups. After the loss of last summer I have spent time studying and learning and tried to get my backups from before the HD"s failed. I could have done so if I knew then what I know now. I had larger HD's installed and did not know how to handle that . Still learning.