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Solitude
Encrypt All Your Files
Premium Member
join:2000-04-29
New York

Solitude

Premium Member

Anyone here max out their upload 24/7?

Is OOL cool with that these days?

Eric The Red
join:2004-03-01
Melville, NY

Eric The Red

Member

No, they are not cool with it. You can do this for an undisclosed period of time and then they will throttle the fuck out of your connection depending on the time of day. Your upload could get throttled down to 1 megabit even if you have Ultra 101 for a bit then go back up and down all over again.

After a while you will get a call requesting you to upgrade to the business package. Yeah, they get pissed off.
root
join:2002-12-11

root

Member

said by Eric The Red:

No, they are not cool with it. You can do this for an undisclosed period of time and then they will throttle the fuck out of your connection depending on the time of day. Your upload could get throttled down to 1 megabit even if you have Ultra 101 for a bit then go back up and down all over again.

After a while you will get a call requesting you to upgrade to the business package. Yeah, they get pissed off.

Got proof?
cabletecht
join:2012-06-08

cabletecht to Eric The Red

Member

to Eric The Red
said by Eric The Red:

No, they are not cool with it. You can do this for an undisclosed period of time and then they will throttle the fuck out of your connection depending on the time of day. Your upload could get throttled down to 1 megabit even if you have Ultra 101 for a bit then go back up and down all over again.

After a while you will get a call requesting you to upgrade to the business package. Yeah, they get pissed off.

I haven't heard of any throttling. And upgrading from a residential ultra to business ultra is pointless, they are the same price so it's not like CV will make more out of it.

Eric The Red
join:2004-03-01
Melville, NY

Eric The Red to root

Member

to root
said by root:

Got proof?

Yes, I don't upload all day but I can see my speed being throttled quite often.

Read this:
»www.optimum.com/open-int ··· sure.jsp

MxxCon
join:1999-11-19
Brooklyn, NY
ARRIS TM822
Actiontec MI424WR Rev. I

MxxCon

Member

said by Eric The Red:

said by root:

Got proof?

Yes, I don't upload all day but I can see my speed being throttled quite often.

Show proof.
I download 200-300GB month and upload 20-50GB month and I've never been throttled in the last 5 years..if not more.
root
join:2002-12-11

root

Member

said by MxxCon:

said by Eric The Red:

said by root:

Got proof?

Yes, I don't upload all day but I can see my speed being throttled quite often.

Show proof.
I download 200-300GB month and upload 20-50GB month and I've never been throttled in the last 5 years..if not more.

Agreed. I've consistently sent/received 2-3x more a month than you have and have never had anything done to my speeds. I've been on Boost, Boost Plus and Ultra 101 packages.

FallenAnjel
join:2011-04-07
East Cupcake

FallenAnjel to cabletecht

Member

to cabletecht
I'm a bill behind so I get a shutoff notice every month (Just got it today actually). I've noticed my speed dropping often toward the end of the month and I thought maybe they throttle. Of course I was told no but who knows. If they did, I can bet not every Optimum employee knows this. Hopefully I can remember to keep track until I can pay the bill in a couple weeks, I just took a speed test and it was 75/30 at 9:30pm on a Monday. (Wireless N600 Netgear).
TheWiseGuy
Dog And Butterfly
MVM
join:2002-07-04
East Stroudsburg, PA

TheWiseGuy

MVM

said by FallenAnjel:

I've noticed my speed dropping often toward the end of the month and I thought maybe they throttle.

Just my opinion, but I believe it is very possible that they throttle people who are a month behind in paying.

Booost
@151.190.40.x

Booost to Solitude

Anon

to Solitude
You're unlikely to max out your upload with a single connection. As has been discussed on this forum, CV seems to limit the upload of a single connection to around 10 Mbps. If you want to max-out your upload, you'll need to open multiple connections.

sandman9r
Premium Member
join:2003-11-09
Franklin Square, NY

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Re: Max Upload 24/7

I can answer two questions here:

1) My uploads haven't been throttled since late 2004 when speeds were still 10/1. I had to have a stern, uncomfortable discussion with a tech over the phone to get my proper speeds back. That was an unpleasant experience.

2) If you're not up to date on your bill, CV will not throttle you. They won't throttle you even if you're on the verge of disconnection for non-payment.
Ghoul
join:2001-02-04
Mastic Beach, NY

4 edits

Ghoul to MxxCon

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to MxxCon

Re: Anyone here max out their upload 24/7?

What "proof" would satisfy you? An internal policy letter? A sworn affidavit from an employee? A copy of the Sandvine configuration OOL is using to throttle? None of these things will ever be forthcoming.

I know, with 100% certainty that UL can and will be throttled under certain circumstances. I've had Ultra since it became available to me in 2012.

I've used lots of upstream bandwith via bittorrent. On the order of ~50-100 gigs a *day*. After several months, my upstream slowed to 3mbps. Not 4 or 2, but exactly 3.

Stop uploading for 1 hour, and UL speed returns to normal. 7 minutes after uploading starts, back down to 3mbps.

Change ports, and UL jumps up to full speed for 7 minutes. EXACTLY 7 minutes.

Use an encrypted VPN and UL goes to full speed and stays there indefinitely.

It's not a routing issue, as this affects every client I connect to via the bittorrent protocol.

I've repeated these experiments over extended periods of time, during which computers, routers, switches, and the cable modem were changed (for other reasons). I have a terrific connection otherwise seeing 135 down/41 up consistently.

One last note, when the traffic shaping kicks in, it only affects BT and FTP protocols. Speedtests show full speed all the time.
cablewizzard
join:2009-06-14
Woodbury, NY

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to Booost
said by Booost :

You're unlikely to max out your upload with a single connection. As has been discussed on this forum, CV seems to limit the upload of a single connection to around 10 Mbps. If you want to max-out your upload, you'll need to open multiple connections.

That's total hearsay and conjecture, and devoid of posted facts - because: Absolutely noone has posted that.

There has been a thread here discussing problems reaching maximum "in flight" speeds with TCP connections going to higher-latency hosts, but NOONE has brought forward even the one slightest shred of evidence that anyone (CV) is limiting anything: that requires intent, which you're blatantly implying here.

I've spent significant time with the material ThinkDiff has posted about this to say this with the same level of confidence than me stating that the sun is never going to rise in the west.
cablewizzard

3 recommendations

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said by Solitude:

Is OOL cool with that these days?

What, are you that FIOS customer who is hitting the 10TB/month threshold, seeking to switch service providers now?

You got some chutzpah there, pal : you're asking whether it's cool to abuse their network to the extreme, and are fishing for hints that you'll get rightfully smashed for whatever you're planning.

My own (heavily video-streaming) household is using 1.4Mbps downstream (24 hr average over the last 2 months) these days - but only about 0.24Mbps upstream.

Lets assume you're signing up for Ultra50 with 25 Mbps upstream : you're asking whether it's cool to use 100x the upstream bandwidth of above-average customers (I'd think I am in the top 20% in terms of absolute usage both up+down).

Given that upstream bandwidth is technically very scarce (and hence 5-10 times more expensive to build than downstream), and the only real way to expand is is to split nodes, requiring $20,000-40,000 of capital investment for something as little as 300 customers (do the $/customer math yourself):

I'd hate to be on the same node as you - even if they split it after you suck it all up and cause performance problems for others, and I am STILL on the same side after the split, it'd probably still be bad. And then they'll split it again, and again, until the other 50 customers still on the same node as you get tired of complaining about slow Internet and cancel service: no, the real scenario is not going to play out that way, far from it.

25 Mbps (~3MB/sec) over 30 days is 7776000 MB = 7593 GB = 7.4 TB

In commercial co-location (Rackspace, Softlayer, etc.), you can get that much bandwidth for about $100-200/month, and the transit cost these DC operators incur for that can be as little as $1.30/Mbps (see »arstechnica.com/informat ··· e-money/), and realistically coming out to maybe ~1.5 x 25 = $37.
If you add the infrastructure costs to run a DOCSIS cable network (and more datacenter/headend operations) to that, you'll arrive at numbers that are at least 8-10 times of that figure for 25Mbps downstream, and 40-100 times that for 25Mbps upstream!).

That's right, you're asking for a ridiculous free ride here, that's in the order of $1500-$3700/month on the expense side for Optimum, $60 on the revenue side - and that was just a ballpark back-of-the-envelope calculation for numbers well known in the industry.

Do tell us how whatever you're planning to do is in any shape or form not abusive, and not the equivalent of stashing scores of bags with food at the "all you can eat for $15!" lunch counter and running out, every day!

(virtually all service provider's T&C's define such use in words in legalese and over-apologetic phrases such as "excessive use" and "negatively affecting other subscriber's enjoyment of the service" - I don't have to be that polite, really...).
cablewizzard

cablewizzard to Ghoul

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to Ghoul
said by Ghoul:

What "proof" would satisfy you? An internal policy letter? A sworn affidavit from an employee? A copy of the Sandvine configuration OOL is using to throttle? None of these things will ever be forthcoming.

I know, with 100% certainty that UL can and will be throttled under certain circumstances. I've had Ultra since it became available to me in 2012.

I've used lots of upstream bandwith via bittorrent. On the order of ~50-100 gigs a *day*. After several months, my upstream slowed to 3mbps. Not 4 or 2, but exactly 3.

100GB/day comes out to 10Mbps sustained - at least 40 times of what "above average" customers like myself use and way more than the average), but it's upstream, and hence incurs to $600-1500 in expenses for Optimum to provide that service (see last post for ballpark calculation).

Not only are you admitting to highly abusive behavior here, but have the balls to complain that they're limiting their losses a bit, rather than do what every wireless service provider, bank, insurance company or all-you-can-eat-buffet place would have done with you a long time ago: show you the door, forever?

It's people like you that abuse shared resources sold with flat-rate pricing leading to the ever-louder calls for usage caps from corrupt industry leaders everywhere - you're the kind that's serving them arguments for their excuses and lies (caps will increase service quality for everyone! don't look at our 5-fold increase in data revenue, nothing to see here!) on a silver platter.

If there was even a 1000 of your kind on Optimum's network, you'd be seeing that 300GB/month (Comcast example) cap in a heartbeat. And don't expect that to be 300GB upstream either.

Booost
@in-addr.arpa

Booost to cablewizzard

Anon

to cablewizzard
said by cablewizzard:

said by Booost :

You're unlikely to max out your upload with a single connection. As has been discussed on this forum, CV seems to limit the upload of a single connection to around 10 Mbps. If you want to max-out your upload, you'll need to open multiple connections.

That's total hearsay and conjecture, and devoid of posted facts - because: Absolutely noone has posted that.

The evidence says otherwise. No one has been able to achieve greater than ~ 10 Mbps upload via a single FTP connection. But the same people can use the same server to achieve 35 Mbps with Fios. Explain that!

You say it's not true? Prove it by showing a 35 Mbps upload using a single FTP connection. Let us have the server address so we can see it for ourselves.

MxxCon
join:1999-11-19
Brooklyn, NY
ARRIS TM822
Actiontec MI424WR Rev. I

2 recommendations

MxxCon

Member

Click for full size
said by Booost :

You say it's not true? Prove it by showing a 35 Mbps upload using a single FTP connection. Let us have the server address so we can see it for ourselves.

For shiggles and gits I uploaded a file from my computer on Boost 50/25 to the slowest possible cloud server Rackspace offers from their Dallas, TX datacenter.
As you can see it averages 1.55megabytes/sec, which translates into ~12megabits/sec, above your imposed limit.
As you can see from the graph, it spikes to the maximum speed my connection allows.

Booost
@in-addr.arpa

Booost

Anon

Get back to me when you can upload at 25 Mbps consistently. Your test shows that Cablevision is throttling single-connection uploads. (I said approx 10 Mbps. 12 is approx. 10)

MxxCon
join:1999-11-19
Brooklyn, NY
ARRIS TM822
Actiontec MI424WR Rev. I

3 recommendations

MxxCon

Member

Click for full size
With a bit more buffer tweaking in the client I can get higher speeds.
Ah, so now you want 25mbps consistently? Before you were claiming that no one has been able to achieve great than ~10mbps...It was dis-proven 30minutes after you posted it.
Do you know anything about TCP window scaling?

I'm not going to get back to you with anything. I don't give rats ass what you think. I have nothing to prove to you. I know what I'm getting and I have historical SamKnows tests proving that I'm getting what I'm paying for.

So find a really splintery stick and shove it in the most sensitive part of your behind.
dm145
join:2009-12-12
Clifton, NJ

2 recommendations

dm145 to cablewizzard

Member

to cablewizzard
Although I agree with you on the OP abusing the network. I don't agree with you abusing the words "no one" by repeatedly typing it incorrectly as noone.

Booost
@optonline.net

Booost to MxxCon

Anon

to MxxCon
Then explain how people here are able to upload with a single FTP connection at 35 Mbps with Fios, but not with OOL. The same people, to the same servers, getting drastically different uploads. That's not due to window scaling, because it's the same computer! That's due to CV's upload throttling.

And please do it without the rules-violating personal attacks.

MxxCon
join:1999-11-19
Brooklyn, NY

MxxCon

Member

said by Booost :

Then explain how people here are able to upload with a single FTP connection at 35 Mbps with Fios, but not with OOL.

Because OOL does not offer 35mbit service.
UofMiamiGrad
Premium Member
join:2001-02-03
Syosset, NY

UofMiamiGrad

Premium Member

said by MxxCon:

said by Booost :

Then explain how people here are able to upload with a single FTP connection at 35 Mbps with Fios, but not with OOL.

Because OOL does not offer 35mbit service.

HUH? Ultra 101 is suppose to have 35 Mbps upload with it.

»www.optimum.com/home-int ··· oadband/

mbernste
MVM
join:2001-06-30
Piscataway, NJ

mbernste to MxxCon

MVM

to MxxCon
said by MxxCon:

Because OOL does not offer 35mbit service.

I'm guessing MxxCon See Profile is referring to 35mbit download since I find it unlikely that someone here as long as MxxCon See Profile has been would make such an error.

MxxCon
join:1999-11-19
Brooklyn, NY
ARRIS TM822
Actiontec MI424WR Rev. I

MxxCon

Member

bleh.
i'm sorry if i don't remember all the possible speed combinations that ool offer, especially for a service that i don't have.
regardless, this whole argument is pointless. that booost guy will keep saying ool throttles single ftp connections no matter what. bleh.

Booost
@151.190.40.x

Booost

Anon

It's not just me. NO ONE with Ultra 50 or 101 has been able to max-out their upload with a single FTP connection. Yet those who also have Fios are able to achieve 35 Mbps upload to the EXACT SAME SERVERS.

Occam's razor says that OOL is throttling the upload rate of single connections. It may not even be intentional. For example, until recently, the maximum upload was 8 Mbps. So CV may have set up their network to allow for a maximum upload of 10 to 12 Mbps. Maybe it's a simple network parameter change. But it's clear that CV is throttling the maximum rate of a single upload connection.

Thinkdiff
MVM,
join:2001-08-07
Bronx, NY

Thinkdiff

MVM,

Throttling implies intent, imo (and I think thats why you're getting so much push-back).

To me, there is obviously something wrong with OOL's network in that it cannot deliver sustained high throughput uploads to certain/most servers - a problem exacerbated by high latency transfers. I don't believe OOL is purposefully doing this (what do they have to gain?). Even in MxxCon's post, you can see that window scaling is not working properly. The average speed is decent, but as soon as he hits maximum throughput, "something" freaks out and causes the algorithm to scale the window size all the way back down (rinse and repeat). I don't call that throttling - if it was throttling, they're doing a shitty job of it.

The problem has not gotten any better either - my speeds cross country still range from 1Mbps to 25Mbps depending on... I have no idea (doesn't seem to correspond to time of day or week in the month or phase of the moon), with a rough average of 4-5Mbps. One day I'll have to put together a rrd graph that runs a speed test every half hour or so to see if there's anything to correlate it to.

I'll finally be back in New York in a few weeks for some time, so I may get Wilt involved to see if anything can be done. It's just impossible to take care of this problem remotely with normal tech support because all Optimum wants to do is send basic techs to my house.

Booost
@atlantichealth.org

Booost

Anon

said by Thinkdiff:

Throttling implies intent, imo (and I think thats why you're getting so much push-back).

No, I never implied intent. "For example, until recently, the maximum upload was 8 Mbps. So CV may have set up their network to allow for a maximum upload of 10 to 12 Mbps. Maybe it's a simple network parameter change."

I recall someone said he saw problems even with a 25 msec ping time to the server. So it's not just high-latency servers.

Thinkdiff
MVM,
join:2001-08-07
Bronx, NY

Thinkdiff

MVM,

You misunderstood - the word "throttling" itself usually implies intent. At least, that's how most people interpret it, even if you did not mean it that way.

And I know there are issues with nearby servers, that's why I said it gets worse with latency. (8-10Mbps uploads to nearby servers, 1-2Mbps uploads to high latency servers).
dudeman456
join:2005-04-29
New York, NY

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Cablevision does throttle connections accounts under certain conditions. Under the six strikes policy, its one of the methods they use, so that you will contact them. Even before the Six Strikes policy, they throttle accounts, to have you contact them. One person that stated that they had been throttled mentioned that he uses bit torrent. Cablevision usually sends you an account email, accessible on their website after login about it.

I plan on testing the FTP accusation, since it doesn't make much sense to limit FTP transfers, like it would Bit torrent, or video streaming.