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El Quintron
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[Portal] Rate Limiting Options

Hi,

I'm glad to see that your "zap the cap" option for reduced speeds is now taking effect, however when this was initially brought up, the reduction in speed was supposed be by about 50% for lower tiers and a reduction to 30% for the tiers above 60Mbps.

See this thread:

»BETA my account portal v2 - need your help

I logged into the portal today, and my "zap the cap" option is to be reduced to 15Mbps for four hours a day, that's 90% reduction in speed, which I don't really think is appropriate for someone subscribing to your highest speed tier, I'd take a reduction to 50Mbps, or even 30, but 15 isn't going to cut it.

I guess my question is whether or not 15 is going to be the final number for the zap the cap option for those with 150Mbps service.

EQ
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TLS2000
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Mississauga, ON

100% agreed.
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Tom



El Quintron
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Thank you, I'm glad I'm not alone in this.



moovyguy

join:2004-05-10
Ottawa & PSL
reply to El Quintron

Yup, same here

I'm on 45/4 ..... would be happy at 50% (22mb) reduction at prime time, but 12mb?

Even a 60% reduction would work ... but 75% in my case ... and 90% if you are on 150 ???



TSI Andre
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reply to El Quintron

I think its safe to say its the initial launch numbers but its subject to change depending on how it goes. We are still using the next few weeks as an evaluation period.



TLS2000
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said by TSI Andre:

I think its safe to say its the initial launch numbers but its subject to change depending on how it goes. We are still using the next few weeks as an evaluation period.

I think it's safe to say that you aren't going to receive a lot of support for this if you make someone's internet next to unusable compared to what they're used to. Cutting speeds by 50% is ok. Cutting them even down by 66% is acceptable. Cutting them by 90% isn't going to get people to use it unless they're already in a position where they don't need it (download during non-peak).
--
Tom


TSI Andre
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I think its more to see how it curbs usage. Its bound to be evaluated and modified to adjust for imperfections.



El Quintron
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reply to TLS2000

said by TLS2000:

Cutting them even down by 66% is acceptable. Cutting them by 90% isn't going to get people to use it unless they're already in a position where they don't need it (download during non-peak).

Considering most of my usage comes from watching Netflix during the peak hours, I'd be none too happy if I weren't able to stream SuperHD/5.1 during these times.

EQ
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El Quintron
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reply to TSI Andre

said by TSI Andre:

I think its more to see how it curbs usage. Its bound to be evaluated and modified to adjust for imperfections.

Fair enough, but 150Mbps (and other high tier customers) are being put in an impractical spot where our options are either accept serious speed cut (90%) or an insanely priced unlimited package ($217 who are we kidding here)

I'm not going to quote prices from your competitors because I'm sure you know them already, but Teksavvy is putting itself at the higher end of the indie pricing curve with this.

EQ
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tjmone

join:2011-02-01
Toronto, ON
reply to El Quintron

If you don't like the reduced speeds, don't subscribe to the new option.

Seems pretty simple to me. I don't see why this is a pain point for you. Nobody is forcing you into it.

People who are subscribed to a 150mbs plan will probably tend to use the most data, so obviously TS is going to take a cautious route and be really conservative with this at the start.

Imagine if they started at 50% and found that it wasn't nearly enough to even out their usage. They'd have to reduce even further. From a business/PR perspective, it's much easier to give than to take away. If you're upset about this now, imagine how you'd be if they started you at 75mbs, then 25, then 15... You'd be up in arms for sure.

So be patient and be thankful that you're getting these options in the first place.



El Quintron
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2 recommendations

said by tjmone:

If you don't like the reduced speeds, don't subscribe to the new option.

Thank you for your wonderful contribution to this topic.

simsin0

join:2008-01-06
reply to El Quintron

I agree that the 15mbit down from 50mbit is too much of a difference.
That is only 30% of my initial 50mbits!

I understand half! but... 30% is less then one third!



TLS2000
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reply to tjmone

said by tjmone:

So be patient and be thankful that you're getting these options in the first place.

That's right. Never let a company know that what they're offering you doesn't work for you. Just keep your mouth shut and pay your bill.

C'mon man, he's not being unreasonable here. He's not threatening to call the media or shut down his account. He's trying to have an intelligent conversation.
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Tom


El Quintron
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reply to simsin0

said by simsin0:

That is only 30% of my initial 50mbits!

I'd gladly take 30% of 150Mbps, for me it would work out to 50Mpbs... but like I said 15Mbps doesn't cut it for my family.


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tjmone

join:2011-02-01
Toronto, ON
reply to TLS2000

All I'm saying is look at it from TS's perspective.

They're doing a lot more than most other ISP's out there. They've said all along that this is a bit of an experiment and they'll adjust as things progress.

If TS over-estimates what they're able to deliver and has to pull back, it's much worse than under-promising and adjusting upward after they have some real-world data to work with.

It's fine to ask for more, or make suggestions, but think about it from another perspective. If this were your business and you had no idea how things would shake out, would you take a big gamble, or go a safe route that doesn't need to affect existing customers?

I have no doubt that these ratios will improve. But let's wait and see how this whole thing shakes out.



TSI Marc
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Chatham, ON
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reply to El Quintron

said by El Quintron:

said by simsin0:

That is only 30% of my initial 50mbits!

I'd gladly take 30% of 150Mbps, for me it would work out to 50Mpbs... but like I said 15Mbps doesn't cut it for my family.


I hear you.. I would gladly offer it if it made sense... even at 50mbit.. you're talking $700/mth is our cost. the CBB rates just don't make any sense...
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El Quintron
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said by TSI Marc:

I hear you.. I would gladly offer it if it made sense... even at 50mbit.. you're talking $700/mth is our cost.

Thanks for getting back to me, how many subs is that $700 spread across? (if you don't mind my asking)
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morisato

join:2008-03-16
Oshawa, ON
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reply to El Quintron

i'd feel Okay with 25-30 for my Zap the cap speed. 15 is just So Low that my family will be stepping one each others toes, 15 is basically enough for 2 people, if your lucky. Heres hoping for 25. for the 150 tier and i think 15 is totally fair for 50 meg tier as its 1/3rd.
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simsin0

join:2008-01-06
reply to TSI Marc

Marc, any chance for something like 20mbit... cause 15mbit is just really too little for a house full of internet users. Nowadays in a modern house you have like 7-10 items connected at once



TSI Marc
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reply to El Quintron

said by El Quintron:

said by TSI Marc:

I hear you.. I would gladly offer it if it made sense... even at 50mbit.. you're talking $700/mth is our cost.

Thanks for getting back to me, how many subs is that $700 spread across? (if you don't mind my asking)

1 (that's "one") i.e. a single user
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geo22

@yorkinet.com
reply to El Quintron

How well this rate limiting works depends a lot on how many people sign up for this. If most don't enable this then there could be problems.



El Quintron
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reply to morisato

said by morisato:

i'd feel Okay with 25-30 for my Zap the cap speed.

Seconded... I'd rather 30, but I'd deal with 25.
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El Quintron
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reply to TSI Marc

said by TSI Marc:

1 (that's "one") i.e. a single user

I don't want to come off as an idiot here but when does this come into play? There's a disconnect between my monthly rate of 86.95 and 700/mo on the CBB.
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morisato

join:2008-03-16
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reply to El Quintron

Also as the Higest Speed tier user, I am Dropping my usage by 135 so i am Giving teksavvy The most bandwidth back during primetime P:) for other users use! P:) i think 25 would be Ideal for me to feel comfortable and not be worried about multiple users 15 is just a lil iffy it might be okay but its Scary to say the least. My netflix might not be in superhd! P:) 7 mbps stream, 2 users could saturate the connection

"We are now offering a BETA version of the new “Zap the Cap” option.

When this option is enabled your download speed 150Mbps is lowered to 15Mbps between the hours of 8:00pm to 12:00am.

In exchange for this small reduction in speed for 4 hours a day, you will have access to unlimited downloads (uploads are already free) when this option is enabled."

I hope for a Similarly Small Reduction in Future Prices P:) Somehow i think whomever wrote this Line Felt they were a Comic.!
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graniterock

join:2003-03-14
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reply to El Quintron

said by El Quintron:

There's a disconnect between my monthly rate of 86.95 and 700/mo on the CBB

I think that's the potential cost to TSI if you decided to run your connection full throttle for the month. I think TSI's fear is with the cap lifted everyone is going to go wild.


El Quintron
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reply to morisato

said by morisato:

Somehow i think whomever wrote this Line Felt they were a Comic.!

Indeed!
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El Quintron
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reply to graniterock

said by graniterock:

I think that's the potential cost to TSI if you decided to run your connection full throttle for the month.

I should've thought of that, I've been on this forum for long enough
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morisato

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reply to El Quintron

Tsi Has Had No Rogers Cable Cap since it began, So its not like folks are magically shedding the cap, So no i doubt people will go hog wild. as they have had No Cap anyways , it was Honor system Until April 1st then we have a Cap, and a way to Zap it. what does this mean for me? well if i participate in zap the cap I can download At Anytime, without worrying Seems like a Fair trade off might move more of my useage away from 2 am though So i can see that being Not great but my usage with my speed so high is in very Short spikes generally
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TLS2000
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1 recommendation

reply to El Quintron

said by El Quintron:

I don't want to come off as an idiot here but when does this come into play? There's a disconnect between my monthly rate of 86.95 and 700/mo on the CBB.

That's if you were to use that connection speed 100% of the time for the month.
--
Tom

InvalidError

join:2008-02-03
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reply to geo22

said by geo22 :

How well this rate limiting works depends a lot on how many people sign up for this. If most don't enable this then there could be problems.

How many people sign up for this actually does not matter that much: if people sign up for it to watch more Netflix and download more stuff during peak hours where it would otherwise count against their caps instead of shifting what usage they can to unlimited hours, you simply end up with more people using a larger chunk of their lowered speed more of the time during peak hours.

For this to work properly, you actually need a mix of users who continue scheduling most of their usage overnight, people who scatter their usage throughout the day now that they no longer have to worry about time of day, clients who use the internet intermittently enough that their usage does not really affect overall usage, etc. to hopefully reduce the amount of data people need to pull during peak hours while still getting revenue.

The more varied usage patterns are throughout the day, the more chances they have of reducing their instantaneous peaks during peak hours.

If half of TSI's subscribers "zapped the cap" so they can stream and download tons of stuff during peak hours at 2+Mbps without worrying about caps, I'm pretty sure they would blow their interconnect with incumbents by a factor of 2X or more.