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BiggA
Premium Member
join:2005-11-23
Central CT
·Frontier FiberOp..
Asus RT-AC68

BiggA to motorola870

Premium Member

to motorola870

Re: [Content] So does Comcast ever add channels?

I think they should make everyone equal- with an 860mhz plant. And any upgrades they do now should be built to 1ghz, and run at 860mhz. They are still running a ton of little feudal fiefdoms, that all have slightly different equipment and different channel lineups. They did standardize the channel numbers nationally, but in some areas, some channels just don't exist, since they don't have the capacity for them. What they really should do is move to a model like Verizon does with SHEs, as opposed to local offices. They also have a few Sci Atlanta systems (mine included) that they should convert over to Motorola like everything else, although I'm not sure how you do that (force migrate everyone to the IP-based X1 platform???).
Joe12345678
join:2003-07-22
Des Plaines, IL

Joe12345678

Member

comcast should dump the XX channel range or have it be locals only (also ok to mirror local RSN there as well)

now comcast does have some analog only areas / small lineup digital SD only areas
BiggA
Premium Member
join:2005-11-23
Central CT
·Frontier FiberOp..
Asus RT-AC68

BiggA

Premium Member

You mean dump SD? It wouldn't do a whole lot, and it would cost them a fortune in replacing equipment. If you're talking about analog, they already did that a while back. There is exactly one analog channel, it's the test pattern. Everything else is encrypted digital. Still, a 650mhz system just doesn't have enough bandwidth for everything in MPEG-2. They need to expand the system, and/or go to MPEG-4.

motorola870
join:2008-12-07
Arlington, TX

motorola870

Member

said by BiggA:

You mean dump SD? It wouldn't do a whole lot, and it would cost them a fortune in replacing equipment. If you're talking about analog, they already did that a while back. There is exactly one analog channel, it's the test pattern. Everything else is encrypted digital. Still, a 650mhz system just doesn't have enough bandwidth for everything in MPEG-2. They need to expand the system, and/or go to MPEG-4.

hmm I don't know about Comcast abandoning traditional QAM for new channels they have demoed using 3 to a QAM Ultra HD channels using MPEG5 (HECV) so it is possible that Comcast could start using MPEG4 for new HD channels. I think Comcast could be reserving 10 QAMs for MPEG4? If they loaded them at 5 HD to a QAM they could easily get 50 HD channels added
BiggA
Premium Member
join:2005-11-23
Central CT
·Frontier FiberOp..
Asus RT-AC68

BiggA

Premium Member

What are you referring to as "traditional QAM"? Do you mean as opposed to IPTV. QAM is definitely around for the long haul. 3 UHDs in one QAM is a bit of a stretch, but maybe 2 per QAM is realistic, based on what Netflix is able to do. I'm hoping that they take their existing HD's, and move them over to MPEG-4 with 5 per QAM. MPEG-2 for SD, MPEG-4 for HD, and HEVC for UHD would allow far better utilization of system capacity than they have now, along with better services to offer.

cypherstream
MVM
join:2004-12-02
Reading, PA
·PenTeleData
ARRIS SB8200

cypherstream

MVM

With the Arris gateway, it also supports traditional video and multistream m card. See spec sheet:
»www.ncube.com/product_ca ··· UN13.pdf

So I envision this being the go to box in the house where your internet, phone and IP set top boxes get information from. The IP boxes via Moca will get the channels they request from here. If its IP, ok then straight shot via the network. If it hasn't been migrated yet, this Arris box along with its M-Card will tune the QAM and trans-code the video to IP, shoot it back over the coax moca channel where it will be picked up by the IP box.

Even if they want to go to IPTV, they cant do it overnight. It will be like back in the day when ADS was being rolled out. A few channels here and there may be "simulcast" in the new format. They can't ever ditch regular video QAM's untill the billions of QAM boxes are removed. Which I don't see them ever "ditching" it due to the recent vast investment in DTA's. However newer HD may be delivered IP only. Who knows at this point.

Whats nice is that Arris gateway is 1 GHz wideband capture tuner, so it basically locks onto the entire plant and it can selectively pick and choose what it wants to narrow in on. Not like a DVR where you have 2, 3, 4, 5, etc. physical tuners that tune in a specific 6 MHz chunk of RF at a time.
BiggA
Premium Member
join:2005-11-23
Central CT
·Frontier FiberOp..
Asus RT-AC68

BiggA

Premium Member

I don't think QAM is going anywhere on the network side. It just doesn't make sense to use IP multicast when you can just have linear QAM channels. They have so much farther that they can push QAM, thus I don't see IP coming for a decade or more, if even then. They still haven't done MPEG-4, and they haven't built all the systems out to 860mhz or higher. Those changes will allow them to be over 200 HD's, have tons of internet bandwidth, and will delay the use of any IP-based technology outside of the home. The gateway tuner concept could come around though, as it allows the network to be compatible with regular QAM boxes, but gives the customers who opt for it the IP experience in their house. A 12-tuner gateway would be pretty cool.

A transition would also be really, really hard, as you have to open space up for the IP streaming before you can shut down the QAM channels, and even moving to MPEG-4 and 860mhz, they just don't have THAT much space. You'd have to have hybrid equipment out there for a decade or more before you could actually convert.

What I could see is a few sports packages being only offered in HD only through the X1 platform, with streaming over DOCSIS, although at that point, it probably would make more sense to start deploying some SDV QAMs for sports packages only, and keeping everything else linear. SDV integrates nicely with existing equipment, while IP doesn't for the most part.

motorola870
join:2008-12-07
Arlington, TX

motorola870

Member

said by BiggA:

I don't think QAM is going anywhere on the network side. It just doesn't make sense to use IP multicast when you can just have linear QAM channels. They have so much farther that they can push QAM, thus I don't see IP coming for a decade or more, if even then. They still haven't done MPEG-4, and they haven't built all the systems out to 860mhz or higher. Those changes will allow them to be over 200 HD's, have tons of internet bandwidth, and will delay the use of any IP-based technology outside of the home. The gateway tuner concept could come around though, as it allows the network to be compatible with regular QAM boxes, but gives the customers who opt for it the IP experience in their house. A 12-tuner gateway would be pretty cool.

A transition would also be really, really hard, as you have to open space up for the IP streaming before you can shut down the QAM channels, and even moving to MPEG-4 and 860mhz, they just don't have THAT much space. You'd have to have hybrid equipment out there for a decade or more before you could actually convert.

What I could see is a few sports packages being only offered in HD only through the X1 platform, with streaming over DOCSIS, although at that point, it probably would make more sense to start deploying some SDV QAMs for sports packages only, and keeping everything else linear. SDV integrates nicely with existing equipment, while IP doesn't for the most part.

I am really surprised that Comcast hasn't figured out how to do IP network communications using the internet for two-way communications for devices such as Tivo as most of the cable card devices are connected to the internet and they could make it to where Internet capable devices could use either a tuning adapter or just use a dedicated communications tunnel over DOCSIS via the ethernet port. I mean DOCSIS based SDV tuning is already active on TWC as they use traditional QAMs for SDV channels but the newest boxes use the DOCSIS modem to request the SDV channel

telcodad
MVM
join:2011-09-16
Lincroft, NJ

1 edit

telcodad to cypherstream

MVM

to cypherstream
said by cypherstream:

Even if they want to go to IPTV, they cant do it overnight. It will be like back in the day when ADS was being rolled out. A few channels here and there may be "simulcast" in the new format. They can't ever ditch regular video QAM's untill the billions of QAM boxes are removed. Which I don't see them ever "ditching" it due to the recent vast investment in DTA's. However newer HD may be delivered IP only. Who knows at this point.

This sounds like what Buckeye CableSystems is proposing to do according to this article on the MCN site today:

Buckeye Cablevision Seeks FCC Waiver For Hybrid Set-Top Box
Wants QAM/IP Combo To Serve As ‘Linchpin’ Of All-IP Transition

By Jeff Baumgartner, Multichannel News - March 6, 2014
»www.multichannel.com/dis ··· x/148711
quote:
Buckeye Cablevision, which sells services under the Buckeye CableSystem brand, appears to be the first U.S. cable operator to seek a special waiver from the FCC that would pave the way for the MSO to deploy a new QAM/IP hybrid set-top box that uses both integrated security and a downloadable form.

Buckeye, an Ohio-based MSO with 130,000 video subscribers, argued in a waiver request filed Monday (March 3) that the proposed hybrid device ... would accelerate its all-IP migration plan and eliminate the need to execute a “flash cut” that would require a massive upfront investment.
 
This is also what SeattleMatt See Profile has already theorized what Comcast is doing with its X1 platform: »Re: [Content] So does Comcast ever add channels?

motorola870
join:2008-12-07
Arlington, TX

motorola870

Member

said by telcodad:

said by cypherstream:

Even if they want to go to IPTV, they cant do it overnight. It will be like back in the day when ADS was being rolled out. A few channels here and there may be "simulcast" in the new format. They can't ever ditch regular video QAM's untill the billions of QAM boxes are removed. Which I don't see them ever "ditching" it due to the recent vast investment in DTA's. However newer HD may be delivered IP only. Who knows at this point.

This sounds like what Buckeye CableSystems is proposing to do according to this article on the MCN site today:

Buckeye Cablevision Seeks FCC Waiver For Hybrid Set-Top Box
Wants QAM/IP Combo To Serve As ‘Linchpin’ Of All-IP Transition

By Jeff Baumgartner, Multichannel News - March 6, 2014
»www.multichannel.com/dis ··· x/148711
quote:
Buckeye Cablevision, which sells services under the Buckeye CableSystem brand, appears to be the first U.S. cable operator to seek a special waiver from the FCC that would pave the way for the MSO to deploy a new QAM/IP hybrid set-top box that uses both integrated security and a downloadable form.

Buckeye, an Ohio-based MSO with 130,000 video subscribers, argued in a waiver request filed Monday (March 3) that the proposed hybrid device ... would accelerate its all-IP migration plan and eliminate the need to execute a “flash cut” that would require a massive upfront investment.
 
This is also what SeattleMatt See Profile has already theorized what Comcast is doing with its X1 platform: »Re: [Content] So does Comcast ever add channels?

seems like an oxymoron they say they want to keep supporting cable card devices but what happens when they don't support IPTV? It is going to be more pain than it is worth for Buckeye to do an IPTV transition too quickly as they plan. There could be a chance the FCC swats the proposal down to due to third party devices not having full support for IP. Looks like Buckeye may be getting a little to quick in judgement? They still have analog cable so there is the bandwidth they need for new internet services and it looks like full IP isn't even needed as they have SDV in use and are 860MHz they would be better off doing an MPEG4 transition instead of IPTV.
GTFan
join:2004-12-03
Austell, GA

GTFan to motorola870

Member

to motorola870
said by motorola870:

I am really surprised that Comcast hasn't figured out how to do IP network communications using the internet for two-way communications for devices such as Tivo as most of the cable card devices are connected to the internet and they could make it to where Internet capable devices could use either a tuning adapter or just use a dedicated communications tunnel over DOCSIS via the ethernet port. I mean DOCSIS based SDV tuning is already active on TWC as they use traditional QAMs for SDV channels but the newest boxes use the DOCSIS modem to request the SDV channel

They have, it's how the Comcast VOD app works on Tivo - IP up to the headend to select/nav a stream then send it down a QAM to the box. No native IP delivery to the box though, it's still the old school tune a channel to get your VOD stuff. Also no need to go out over the internet, it's all in Comcast's network.

cypherstream
MVM
join:2004-12-02
Reading, PA
·PenTeleData
ARRIS SB8200

cypherstream

MVM

said by GTFan:

They have, it's how the Comcast VOD app works on Tivo - IP up to the headend to select/nav a stream then send it down a QAM to the box. No native IP delivery to the box though, it's still the old school tune a channel to get your VOD stuff. Also no need to go out over the internet, it's all in Comcast's network.

Thats exactly how SDV should work. IP to the headend to request the channel, then the headend tells you which QAM to look for the channel on.

Why are operators fumbling with tuning adapters when IP could accomplish it. A PC speaks IP natively, so even Windows Media Center with a small driver or app should be able to do the same thing.
BiggA
Premium Member
join:2005-11-23
Central CT

BiggA to GTFan

Premium Member

to GTFan
Exactly. And this system could support SDV.
BiggA

BiggA to cypherstream

Premium Member

to cypherstream
They are forced to do TAs, as they support "other" devices, but support for MCE and TiVo should be enough, as there's nothing else out there that's worth supporting that uses CableCard.