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battleop

join:2005-09-28
00000
reply to MaynardKrebs

Re: WTF are Canadian universities thinking???

You do know that Google is an international company and they have Data Centers in other countries. It's possible the data is kept in Canadian Data Centers where it's a little more difficult for the NSA to operate. Google probably isn't a single company but a collection of country specific companies to help address this and other problems associated with being a global company.
--
I do not, have not, and will not work for AT&T/Comcast/Verizon/Charter or similar sized company.


Gone
Premium
join:2011-01-24
Fort Erie, ON
kudos:4

2 recommendations

said by battleop:

It's possible the data is kept in Canadian Data Centers where it's a little more difficult for the NSA to operate.

You keep thinking that.


Qsig

join:2009-05-18
Kanata, ON
reply to MaynardKrebs
»www.google.com/enterprise/apps/education/

Basically, it's free, that's why. Operational cost plummets so why not. They're not going to think of NSA prying or even CSEC prying when the savings are huge.


Guspaz
Guspaz
Premium,MVM
join:2001-11-05
Montreal, QC
kudos:23
reply to MaynardKrebs
Sounds like a pretty sweet deal to me. Better use of our tax dollars if they let Google take care of it.


battleop

join:2005-09-28
00000
reply to Gone
I guess you're having a hard time with the phrase "It's possible".

It really does not matter if it's hosted by Google or the University, in the US or Canada or the moon. If they want the data they will get it. They only way to feel 100% secure is to stay off line and in a hole in the ground.
--
I do not, have not, and will not work for AT&T/Comcast/Verizon/Charter or similar sized company.


shrugs

@videotron.ca
said by battleop:

I guess you're having a hard time with the phrase "It's possible".

It's not possible. He is correct. I don't want to waste the time looking into the the patriot act, or finding links to post for you from privcom.gc.ca. You can do this yourself.

But as long as an entity has an American ownship in it (even partial), it doesn't matter where the data warehouse is, or the server farms. The law states they *have* to give if asked. And that is really the end of it. If not they end up in prison and enough fines to bankrupt them and their next generation of kids.

As Maynard stated,
said by MaynardKrebs:

I guess I'm late to the party

This is stuff that is known and years old. The info is all there for you to look-up and read.

There are reasons why some prov's have elected not to store medical data on any server farm that has any sort of American partial ownership. I do believe PEI and Alberta (or BC) were the first to do this.

"It's possible" if someone goes rogue, give up their life's work and money, and wants to be a fugitive from American law and live the rest of their life in Russia. Yes it's possible.


Gone
Premium
join:2011-01-24
Fort Erie, ON
kudos:4
It wouldn't matter even if the server was located on physical Canadian soil and run by a 100% Canadian organization with no US operations or affiliates. If the NSA wants what's on it, they can get it. Easily. To the point of it being laughable for anyone to think anything otherwise.


shrugs

@videotron.ca
heh a couple of years ago people would be asking about your tinfoil hat, and the tightness of it. But... you're right.

When a Canadian gov agency doesn't even consider metadata data, that says something.


Gone
Premium
join:2011-01-24
Fort Erie, ON
kudos:4
Five Eyes. Nuff said.


ground

join:2008-01-16
Toronto, ON
Reviews:
·Rogers Hi-Speed
reply to MaynardKrebs
Having used an archaic in-house college mail system, Outlook Web Access and Gmail I would say that Gmail is the best thing ever hands down. Those who criticise it definitely don't know what they are talking about, ask any student. NSA is the last thing you worry about when your assignment is due and you can't submit the bloody thing because college mail scanner from 1989 thinks your PDF file is a virus. After we moved to Gmail I actually started using my college email for job applications and other school related things, as opposed to forwarding it to my private email.

PS. When I saw this thread I originally thought it'll be about basket weaving degrees, student unemployment and debt, which are far bigger issues. Oh well...

franch

join:1999-11-03
Canada
reply to MaynardKrebs
Can't speak for other universities, but when I was doing my grad degree back in 2011/2012, U of T was switching over to the MS Live email service for students. Profs and other U of T staff were still going to be allowed to use the internal email system, which was arcane to use and configure and had a crappy web interface. Live was much better and offered all the other online advantages of Live. Yes, the US government could potentially had access to my emails sitting on MS servers, but guess what? Whenever you send an email, it gets transmitted over plain text over the internet and is most likely passing through a US data mining centre anyways.

MaynardKrebs
Heave Steve, for the good of the country
Premium
join:2009-06-17
kudos:4
reply to ground
The issue isn't whether Google's apps are good/bad/indifferent.
The issue is - why is this stuff being outsourced to the US - and all the implications that has.

50 universities each kicking in $1MM/year buys some pretty nifty coding by Canadians & standardized server farms (Facebook & Google reference servers and data center designs).

Lots of Canadian corporate resources could help - Certicom, even Sandvine could take their talents and build a better firewall, just to name a couple of world-class ones.

franch

join:1999-11-03
Canada
reply to yyzlhr
said by yyzlhr:

Since when did University of Toronto use google?

They used google for alumni accounts in the past, but are moving those accounts over to MS now.


shrugs

@videotron.ca
reply to MaynardKrebs
said by MaynardKrebs:

The issue isn't whether Google's apps are good/bad/indifferent.
The issue is - why is this stuff being outsourced to the US - and all the implications that has.

50 universities each kicking in $1MM/year buys some pretty nifty coding by Canadians & standardized server farms (Facebook & Google reference servers and data center designs).

Lots of Canadian corporate resources could help - Certicom, even Sandvine could take their talents and build a better firewall, just to name a couple of world-class ones.

That is like asking why the route taken to Email your neighbour across the street requires the data to be passed through 6 US states before reaching its destination.

Keep it up and you could end up accidentally hit by a black sedan with tinted windows.

Or, I guess, the reply expected is, "because Canada lacks the talent to do this". Yeah. That's it.

lawrenson

join:2012-02-22
reply to MaynardKrebs
said by MaynardKrebs:

The issue isn't whether Google's apps are good/bad/indifferent.
The issue is - why is this stuff being outsourced to the US - and all the implications that has.

50 universities each kicking in $1MM/year buys some pretty nifty coding by Canadians & standardized server farms

Why? Because that's $1M/year more than they're paying now.
Both Google's product (Google Apps for Education) and Microsoft's product (Office 365 Education) are 100% free for academic institutions.

Find a Canadian company willing to provide the same level of service to the over 1 million students currently in Canadian universities (plus faculty, alumni etc) for $0, and the universities might show some interest. Until then, they'll use the free hosted services.

You also seem to be under the impression that e-mail is a secure service, which it's not.
Storing and sharing a document on Google Docs or SkyDrive is infinitely more secure than e-mailing it to someone else on any e-mail service.

kevinds
Premium
join:2003-05-01
Calgary, AB
kudos:3
Reviews:
·Shaw
reply to MaynardKrebs
My current school, Bow Valley College is doing this too, GMail and all the Google Apps that go with a 'paid' Google account...

I just like having ActiveSync for my email account.

Other than that, I don't need/use any of the services, forgot how much I disliked the GMail interface

But do I have a problem with them using Google, no, I really don't care, it works
--
Yes, I am not employed and looking for IT work. Have passport, will travel.


Booost

@151.190.40.x
reply to MaynardKrebs
All your email are belong to U.S.

MichelR

join:2011-07-03
Ottawa, ON
said by Booost :

All your email are belong to U.S.

hehehe... Nice!


MooJohn

join:2005-12-18
Milledgeville, GA
kudos:1
Reviews:
·Windstream
reply to MaynardKrebs
It boils down to laziness. Instead of a service offered by their IT dept, email becomes another line on a budget. You no longer need in-house expertise to maintain and troubleshoot; if something goes wrong you can point a finger at your vendor and wait until they fix it.

Many IT departments have become a collection of purchasing agents and minor helpdesk troubleshooters rather than the well-rounded tech professionals of old.
--
John M - Cranky network guy


pstewart
Premium,VIP
join:2005-10-12
Peterborough, ON
kudos:2
reply to MaynardKrebs
I think Universities, Colleges, School Boards etc should be confined to using Canadian businesses for their services. This includes connectivity for example where today most of them send all of their student dollars to US companies instead of supporting our own economy. Just a personal opinion...

mikekay
Premium
join:2011-01-29
Kitchener, ON
reply to MooJohn
said by MooJohn:

It boils down to laziness. Instead of a service offered by their IT dept, email becomes another line on a budget. You no longer need in-house expertise to maintain and troubleshoot; if something goes wrong you can point a finger at your vendor and wait until they fix it.

Many IT departments have become a collection of purchasing agents and minor helpdesk troubleshooters rather than the well-rounded tech professionals of old.

Even worse -- no one is looking for well rounded anymore


Guspaz
Guspaz
Premium,MVM
join:2001-11-05
Montreal, QC
kudos:23
reply to pstewart
said by pstewart:

I think Universities, Colleges, School Boards etc should be confined to using Canadian businesses for their services. This includes connectivity for example where today most of them send all of their student dollars to US companies instead of supporting our own economy. Just a personal opinion...

Protectionism is inefficient and expensive, and that door swings both ways.
--
Latest version of CapSavvy systray usage checker: »CapSavvy v4.2 released!

MaynardKrebs
Heave Steve, for the good of the country
Premium
join:2009-06-17
kudos:4
reply to pstewart
said by pstewart:

I think Universities, Colleges, School Boards etc should be confined to using Canadian businesses for their services. This includes connectivity for example where today most of them send all of their student dollars to US companies instead of supporting our own economy. Just a personal opinion...

+100
It creates business & skills opportunities here.
But Governor PM Harper doesn't care. He's just happy talking about action plans rather than really having any.

MaynardKrebs
Heave Steve, for the good of the country
Premium
join:2009-06-17
kudos:4
reply to Guspaz
said by Guspaz:

said by pstewart:

I think Universities, Colleges, School Boards etc should be confined to using Canadian businesses for their services. This includes connectivity for example where today most of them send all of their student dollars to US companies instead of supporting our own economy. Just a personal opinion...

Protectionism is inefficient and expensive, and that door swings both ways.

Well then .... let's just put up a For Sale sign on everything here and let all the accountants, lawyers, IT, and everything else move out of Canada.

Afterwards all you'll be left with as a career opportunity here is "Would you like fries with that?" or dealing drugs.


Guspaz
Guspaz
Premium,MVM
join:2001-11-05
Montreal, QC
kudos:23
Again, that door swings both ways. If you don't want to import from the US, then why should they want to import from us?
--
Latest version of CapSavvy systray usage checker: »CapSavvy v4.2 released!

MaynardKrebs
Heave Steve, for the good of the country
Premium
join:2009-06-17
kudos:4
Of all the things Canada has, I can count on the fingers of one hand what the US is really interested in - minerals, lumber, hydrocarbon energy, wheat (not so much), electricity, and water (ok, I'm polydactyl).

How many people working does it take to extract all that?


Guspaz
Guspaz
Premium,MVM
join:2001-11-05
Montreal, QC
kudos:23
reply to MaynardKrebs
A lot? We export nearly three times as much value of vehicles and vehicle parts as we do food, for example. And we export ten times the value in electronics as we do in electricity (or almost as much in electronics as in food).

Everything you mentioned (expanding it to include the entire category those things fall into) still accounts for less than half of all exports of goods, and that ignores the export of services. Heck, my whole professional life is basically devoted to exporting technology services to other countries, since we run a software-as-a-service platform for an industry in which Canada is barely a blip.
--
Latest version of CapSavvy systray usage checker: »CapSavvy v4.2 released!
Expand your moderator at work

Ree

join:2007-04-29
h0h0h0
kudos:1
reply to MaynardKrebs

Re: WTF are Canadian universities thinking???

My response is a little different...I'm pissed that only the students got migrated, and the staff are stuck with a sucky 50MB limit!


TypeS

join:2012-12-17
London, ON
kudos:1
Reviews:
·TekSavvy DSL
·TekSavvy Cable
reply to MaynardKrebs
Anyone who's used a University's or College's in house email system, knows how archaic and bug ridden they are.

Loosen that tin-foil hat some, most of the email accounts are for inter-school communications anyway. You have to be pretty dumb to use an post-secondary institution email for anything personal (the institutions admins already snoop them when anything alarming pops up).