dslreports logo
site
 
    All Forums Hot Topics Gallery
spc

spacer




how-to block ads


Search Topic:
uniqs
1880
share rss forum feed


Noob

@shawcable.net

Requesting clarity: Is Shaw Digital Phone really VOIP?

From the people who I talked to and some info I have read, there seems to be no agreement on whether or not Shaw Digital Phone is actually VOIP or not. Is it?


tlhIngan

join:2002-07-08
Richmond, BC
kudos:1

Depends what you mean by VoIP.

If you mean does it require an internet connection and goes down when your internet goes down, like traditional VoIP services that work over the Internet li Vonage, then no. Shaw's phone service works over the cable system on a separate but similar network to the DOCSIS network powering the internet connectivity.

Internal to Shaw though, it IS VoIP in that it runs on an internal isolated IP network that is separate from the Internet.

As long as you have cable, you have phone. And it doesn't matter if your internet goes down, or you have internet not rhrough Shaw, it works. It puts the reliability much higher than traditional VoIP solutions, and close to that of traditional POTS providers. You don't need internet, cable TV or anything else to use Shaw phone (though you get discounts when you do).



Noob

@shawcable.net

VOIP, I mean by definition including voice over broadband that it needs to access to IP networks regardless of how. Some say that it is landline phone through a coaxial cable.

According to wiki: »en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voice_over_IP

quote:
Voice over Internet Protocol (VoIP) is a methodology and group of technologies for the delivery of voice communications and multimedia sessions over Internet Protocol (IP) networks, such as the Internet. Other terms commonly associated with VoIP are IP telephony, Internet telephony, voice over broadband (VoBB), broadband telephony, IP communications, and broadband phone service.

The term Internet telephony specifically refers to the provisioning of communications services (voice, fax, SMS, voice-messaging) over the public Internet, rather than via the public switched telephone network (PSTN). The steps and principles involved in originating VoIP telephone calls are similar to traditional digital telephony and involve signaling, channel setup, digitization of the analog voice signals, and encoding. Instead of being transmitted over a circuit-switched network, however, the digital information is packetized, and transmission occurs as Internet Protocol (IP) packets over a packet-switched network. Such transmission entails careful considerations about resource management different from time-division multiplexing (TDM) networks.

Early providers of voice over IP services offered business models and technical solutions that mirrored the architecture of the legacy telephone network. Second-generation providers, such as Skype, have built closed networks for private user bases, offering the benefit of free calls and convenience while potentially charging for access to other communication networks, such as the PSTN. This has limited the freedom of users to mix-and-match third-party hardware and software. Third-generation providers, such as Google Talk, have adopted[1] the concept of federated VoIP—which is a departure from the architecture of the legacy networks. These solutions typically allow dynamic interconnection between users on any two domains on the Internet when a user wishes to place a call.

VoIP systems employ session control and signaling protocols to control the signaling, set-up, and tear-down of calls. They transport audio streams over IP networks using special media delivery protocols that encode voice, audio, video with audio codecs, and video codecs as Digital audio by streaming media. Various codecs exist that optimize the media stream based on application requirements and network bandwidth; some implementations rely on narrowband and compressed speech, while others support high fidelity stereo codecs. Some popular codecs include -law and a-law versions of G.711, G.722, which is a high-fidelity codec marketed as HD Voice by Polycom, a popular open source voice codec known as iLBC, a codec that only uses 8 kbit/s each way called G.729, and many others.

VoIP is available on many smartphones, personal computers, and on Internet access devices. Calls and SMS text messages may be sent over 3G or Wi-Fi.

said by tlhIngan:

Depends what you mean by VoIP.

If you mean does it require an internet connection and goes down when your internet goes down, like traditional VoIP services that work over the Internet li Vonage, then no. Shaw's phone service works over the cable system on a separate but similar network to the DOCSIS network powering the internet connectivity.

Internal to Shaw though, it IS VoIP in that it runs on an internal isolated IP network that is separate from the Internet.

As long as you have cable, you have phone. And it doesn't matter if your internet goes down, or you have internet not rhrough Shaw, it works. It puts the reliability much higher than traditional VoIP solutions, and close to that of traditional POTS providers. You don't need internet, cable TV or anything else to use Shaw phone (though you get discounts when you do).



kevinds
Premium
join:2003-05-01
Calgary, AB
kudos:3
Reviews:
·Shaw
reply to Noob

Almost all phones are VoIP now, voice over IP, not voice over the internet.

Copper telephones are VoIP from the phone switch to the rest of the world, cable company phones are VoIP from the phone adapter.

This is very different from Voice over IP, because the bandwidth is fixed, calculated, and set aside for your call.
--
Yes, I am not employed and looking for IT work. Have passport, will travel.



Noob

@shawcable.net

I'm confused. What does the IP stand for above? Isn't it Internet Protocol?
And what you're saying is that copper telecos can say they're not VOIP because they have actually copper or fibre to their switch and then send the voice traffic over the internet?


kevinds
Premium
join:2003-05-01
Calgary, AB
kudos:3
Reviews:
·Shaw

This is very different from Voice over IP
Sorry, I ment to say very different from Voice over the internet.

Just about every telephone provider uses VoIP, on their network, but not the internet.

Only time there will be no VoIP is when the two telephone lines are on the same switch (because the call doesn't go anywhere else)
--
Yes, I am not employed and looking for IT work. Have passport, will travel.



humanfilth

join:2013-02-14
cyber gutter

1 edit
reply to Noob

said by Noob :

And what you're saying is that copper telecos can say they're not VOIP because they have actually copper

With the Telco, the line coming in to your residence/business does not need a converter to connect to your phone.
plug your standard phone in to the wall and everything happens at the central office(all the telco equipment).

Edit: I should add that if the Telco service comes in with 'Fiber to the home', The internal copper phone lines will connect to the ONT(optical network terminal), and then head off on the light beam to the central office.

With the cableco, you need a converter in the residence/business to connect the phone to and then that converter connects to the cable line and then to the node and then to the cable plant and then connects in to the phone lines to the world.

--
When peasants own the government, there is freedom. When the government owns the peasants, there is tyranny
Knowledge and curiosity are not crimes and those who are curious should not be treated like criminals.. »www.eff.org/https-everywhere


Noob

@shawcable.net
reply to kevinds

I am still confused, lol.

VOIP (voice over ip) is different from Voice over the internet?? What's an example of voice over internet? Google Voice, skype?


kevinds
Premium
join:2003-05-01
Calgary, AB
kudos:3

Vonage, voip.ms, les.net, Primus' Talkbroadband, MagicJack

There are many
--
Yes, I am not employed and looking for IT work. Have passport, will travel.



Noob

@shawcable.net

Ok, so vonage is an example of voice over internet? They're not VOIP? Where does Shaw fit into this mix? Are they VOIP or voice over internet?


kevinds
Premium
join:2003-05-01
Calgary, AB
kudos:3
Reviews:
·Shaw

They are all VoIP, but IP alone doesn't mean internet.

Shaw, Telus, all use VoIP, but not the internet

Vonage and MagicJack are VoIP, but these services use the internet
--
Yes, I am not employed and looking for IT work. Have passport, will travel.



Noob

@shawcable.net

So let me ask again:
1. If IP doesn't mean internet, what is it? What does it do?
2. It's still unclear to me the difference.

Internet/broadband/network to me seems like the calls made or received on MagicJack or Vonage go through a server, just like a call made with Shaw digital phone does. Unless the line to the main telephone switch is a Telus or Bell line, I would consider calls being made to go through the internet or servers which would us internet protocol.

For me, in simplistic lay man terms Shaw is not the same as Telus. I guess that's why Telus and their team of lawyers won't allow their service be referred to a a VOIP line despite them connecting to the internet at some point to complete the call.

However, in your last post it sounds like the two (Shaw and Telus) are the same? When people think of a Telus landline they think of a dedicated landline but nobody I know considers Shaw to be an actual landline in the same way Vonage or even MagicJack are not.

Maybe Shaw works in the same way that there is a so so slight difference, perhaps with semantics, that they won't or can't be allowed to call themselves VOIP and that's why, going back to my original question. Is Shaw digital home phone VOIP or not? Because Shaw says they are not.


kevinds
Premium
join:2003-05-01
Calgary, AB
kudos:3
Reviews:
·Shaw

IP does stand for internet protocol, but just as you can have a local network inside your home, without internet access, devices talk to each other and such.

IP being the phone switch in Vancouver (10.45.68.78 - this is not an internet address) connecting to a switch in Winnipeg (10.88.122.210).

Phone switch to customers home either 'copper twisted pair' or analog telephone adapter (Shaw's telephone modem)

There is a little more work when the calls are to different carriers...

The calls never touch the internet.

Where as Vonage or TalkBroadband use the same systems/ideas, except thatthey connect over the public interent, there is no quality control, nothing to specify this is a voice-call so needs higher preference than a 'cute kitty picture'.
--
Yes, I am not employed and looking for IT work. Have passport, will travel.


corbin

join:2013-09-13

Too long. Didn't like post. Deleted. Kevinds's post is pretty good.


kevinds
Premium
join:2003-05-01
Calgary, AB
kudos:3

Except the mis-types, I should proof-read better when posting from my phone.
--
Yes, I am not employed and looking for IT work. Have passport, will travel.



Noob

@shawcable.net

Haha. Who worries about mistypes? With auto correct and their own mistakes, not to mention we're not writing an essay, I dont think we need to worry about the spelling and grammar nazis.

Thanks kevinds, your last post makes things clearer.

So in summary, if I understand correctly. All of these services like Magic Jack, Vonage, Shaw, Telus are VOIP. However, the difference between Shaw and the rest is that Shaw uses their own private network and their connection never connects to the internet, unlike Vonage, Magic Jack, etc?


yyzlhr

join:2012-09-03
Scarborough, ON
kudos:4

Think of shaw as a bus travelling on a dedicated bus lane, while Vonage or magicjack is a bus that travels on the same lane as every other vehicle.


ravenchilde

join:2011-04-01
kudos:2

Shaw is also a full CLEC. That is a major difference as well, and they offer E911 with a direction connection to your local PSAP, which most VoInternet providers, AFAIK, do not offer. Shaw is basically a traditional phone provider, with a digital/packetized last mile.

Very similar to a Telco with an FTTH connection to a home.


kevinds
Premium
join:2003-05-01
Calgary, AB
kudos:3

Yeah, I know les.net is a CLEC, but not sure which other providers are



bearcobra

join:2013-05-20
Calgary, AB

said by kevinds:

Yeah, I know les.net is a CLEC, but not sure which other providers are

The CRTC has a list
www.crtc.gc.ca/eng/8180/8180i.htm