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Corehhi

join:2002-01-28
Bluffton, SC
Reviews:
·Hargray Cable

1 edit

[Green Tech] Solar assisted heat pump, anyone know something about these??

»www.sednaaireusa.com/Products/So···ial.aspx

»www.superiorairinc.com/solar-power.html

Apparently there is about 55% in tax rebates availible and I'm going to need a new system some time in the next year or so.

Any one have one of these systems or know much about them???

Of course the next question is the HVAC guys charging a huge amount for these systems since they have a rebate on them??


Corehhi

join:2002-01-28
Bluffton, SC
Reviews:
·Hargray Cable

[Green Tech] Re: Solar assisted heat pump, anyone know something ablot these??

This guy is saying up to 32 SEER possible.

»www.youtube.com/watch?v=4SaTlVE65eY


cowboyro
Premium
join:2000-10-11
Shelton, CT
reply to Corehhi

[Green Tech] Re: Solar assisted heat pump, anyone know something about these??

I would have to call BS on that.
First, the performance of the heat pump is rated as HSPF. SEER is the rating for the cooling performance. A typical heat pump has a HSPF of about 9
The solar collectors *will* increase the performance of the heating, no question.
Problem is that the ~5000BTU/h collected by the solar panel at noon may not do much as temperatures are fairly high and will not do any good during the night. Or when it's cloudy.
Looks more like a legal scam to me - overcharge for a system that won't help too much knowing that the buyer won't feel being overcharged thanks to the rebates.
You may be better off with a geothermal solution if the rebates are that great - it will give savings day and night, summer and winter.


Corehhi

join:2002-01-28
Bluffton, SC
Reviews:
·Hargray Cable
reply to Corehhi
Looks like BS to me.

They are saying it works for cooling??? I'm not seeing how that is possible??

Tax credits??? I can't find an energy star symbol or anything like that and when check the energy web page that product doesn't appear so no legal tax credit.

A local company is advertising that and I'm thinking they will be getting into trouble pretty fast.

I checked into Geo thermal and it just wasn't worth it.

robbin
Premium,MVM
join:2000-09-21
Leander, TX
kudos:1
said by Corehhi:

They are saying it works for cooling??? I'm not seeing how that is possible??

I do believe that it could help with cooling but am not sure how much. Basically what happens in the condensing unit of a split system air conditioner is two different actions. First the compressor compresses the refrigerant gas and the physics of this compression is the gas rises in temperature. Then the heated, compressed gas is routed through the condenser. The fan pulls outside air through the condenser cooling it which allows the gas to condense into a liquid. What the device they are offering is doing is increasing the temp of the compressed gas. My guess is there is a valve so it is only operational when the sun is out so it doesn't cool the compressed gas at night, cloudy days, etc.

Here is the important part of how this could work. Referring to the video it is mentioned that the compressed refrigerant after first stage compression is about 180 degrees and their device will raise that to the equivalent of second stage 200 degrees (these stages refer to a 2 stage compressor which basically has low and high speeds with lower amp draw in the low, stage one). Now remember that this works better the hotter it gets so we are going to assume an outside temp of 100 degrees as a for instance. The heated, compressed gas is next gong through the condenser where the 100 degree air has to cool it into a liquid state. It seems reasonable that 100 degree air can cool 200 degree gas more efficiently than it can 180 degree gas as there is a greater temperature differential. This greater efficiency is referred to in the video when he states that the greater temperature differential results in a little more subcooling.


Jack_in_VA
Premium
join:2007-11-26
North, VA
kudos:1
Reviews:
·Millenicom
reply to Corehhi
said by Corehhi:

»www.sednaaireusa.com/Products/So···ial.aspx

»www.superiorairinc.com/solar-power.html

Apparently there is about 55% in tax rebates availible and I'm going to need a new system some time in the next year or so.

Any one have one of these systems or know much about them???

Of course the next question is the HVAC guys charging a huge amount for these systems since they have a rebate on them??

Not exactly

Government tax credits for solar

robbin
Premium,MVM
join:2000-09-21
Leander, TX
kudos:1
From your link

"Additional state and local utility solar tax credits and incentives

The SunSource Home Energy System may also qualify for tax credits from your state and local governments. In many areas, local utility companies are also offering rebates and other incentives."

I see nothing which indicates that the OP is incorrect.


Jack_in_VA
Premium
join:2007-11-26
North, VA
kudos:1
Reviews:
·Millenicom
reply to Corehhi
said by Corehhi:

»www.sednaaireusa.com/Products/So···ial.aspx

»www.superiorairinc.com/solar-power.html

Apparently there is about 55% in tax rebates availible and I'm going to need a new system some time in the next year or so.

Any one have one of these systems or know much about them???

Of course the next question is the HVAC guys charging a huge amount for these systems since they have a rebate on them??

OP you probably can determine your rebate if any from this site.

South Carolina Residential Incentives
Incentives/Policies for Renewable Energy


SparkChaser
Premium
join:2000-06-06
Downingtown, PA
kudos:4
Reviews:
·Verizon FiOS
reply to Corehhi
I have my doubts about it too but here's the patent »www.google.com/patents/US8448458 if any of you thermo guys can verify.

Looks like they won some court case over it.


Corehhi

join:2002-01-28
Bluffton, SC
Reviews:
·Hargray Cable
reply to Jack_in_VA
That one is a true PV cell setup and I believe the heat pump can run on 24 volt so no need for an inverter or anything else making it reasonably cheaper to install.

The product I posted work more like a solar water heater where a fluid it heated up to help the heat pump cool. I know from other rebates it has to be energy star rated and for what I could find that system I posted is not energy star rated.


Corehhi

join:2002-01-28
Bluffton, SC
Reviews:
·Hargray Cable
reply to Corehhi
BTW I'm very familiar with all the renewable energy rebates and actually only one has been any use to me, I installed a heat pump water heater. I figured with 55% fed and state rebates solar or geo thermal would be a no brainer. The end result is even with 55% very little worked out cost wise. I'm not going to speculate a bunch of money while living in a hurricane zone on things like solar PV panels. Didn't even look at how much to insure them. Geo was killed by the price of drilling and the fact that air source heat pumps can be very efficient if you spend the money.


cowboyro
Premium
join:2000-10-11
Shelton, CT
reply to SparkChaser
said by SparkChaser:

I have my doubts about it too but here's the patent »www.google.com/patents/US8448458 if any of you thermo guys can verify.

Looks like they won some court case over it.

There is no doubt it can help.
The issue is how much.
5000BTU/h will help, but at what cost? One is looking at 30,000BTU/day at best.
It costs roughly 3kWh to generate that heat with a COP of 3 (if it's sunny enough for the collectors it's likely warm outside). That's $0.45 with $0.15/kWh. A whooping $50 of savings per heating season. Big yawn.

robbin
Premium,MVM
join:2000-09-21
Leander, TX
kudos:1
said by cowboyro:

A whooping $50 of savings per heating season.

This is NOT a heating device. It is a device which super heats the refrigerant in COOLING mode. As an option I believe I saw that it could be used in winter if you have a heat pump but a HEAT PUMP IS NOT NECESSARY for this device. It improves the efficiency of an air conditioner in hot temperatures. From the first link

"Heating Options Include Heat Pump, Gas, Dual Fuel, and Gas Pack"


cowboyro
Premium
join:2000-10-11
Shelton, CT
said by robbin:

It improves the efficiency of an air conditioner in hot temperatures

Please explain the physics of it.

iknow_t

join:2012-05-03
reply to Corehhi

Re: [Green Tech] Solar assisted heat pump, anyone know something about these??

they are confusing superheat and subcooling. you don't want too much superheat. you want to increase the subcooling. »www.achrnews.com/articles/quick-···bcooling

robbin
Premium,MVM
join:2000-09-21
Leander, TX
kudos:1
reply to cowboyro

Re: [Green Tech] Re: Solar assisted heat pump, anyone know something about these??

said by cowboyro:

Please explain the physics of it.

Already did, read my earlier post.

robbin
Premium,MVM
join:2000-09-21
Leander, TX
kudos:1
reply to iknow_t

Re: [Green Tech] Solar assisted heat pump, anyone know something about these??

said by iknow_t:

you don't want too much superheat

They didn't say that it increased superheat. They said they were super heating the compressed refrigerant. They said it increased subcooling.

Did anyone watch the video? Doesn't sound like it.


cowboyro
Premium
join:2000-10-11
Shelton, CT

1 recommendation

reply to robbin

Re: [Green Tech] Re: Solar assisted heat pump, anyone know something about these??

said by robbin:

said by cowboyro:

Please explain the physics of it.

Already did, read my earlier post.

No, you didn't. You echoed a bunch of BS.
Adding heat on the hot sidewill not increase the efficiency - on the contrary...

robbin
Premium,MVM
join:2000-09-21
Leander, TX
kudos:1

1 edit
I didn't echo BS. I explained the physics of what it is supposed to do. Explain why you believe

said by cowboyro:

Adding heat on the hot sidewill not increase the efficiency - on the contrary...

Why won't increasing the temperature differential of the hot side gas to the outside air temp increase efficiency and evidently according to you -- "on the contrary". The physics please.


PSWired

join:2006-03-26
Annapolis, MD
I'm jumping into this without reading anything about this actual implementation, but:

Yes of course a higher differential will increase transfer efficiency, but system efficiency sure isn't increasing with all the heat that's added to the wrong side of the equation with those collectors...

robbin
Premium,MVM
join:2000-09-21
Leander, TX
kudos:1
said by PSWired:

but system efficiency sure isn't increasing with all the heat that's added to the wrong side of the equation with those collectors...

More detail?

iknow_t

join:2012-05-03
said by robbin:

said by PSWired:

but system efficiency sure isn't increasing with all the heat that's added to the wrong side of the equation with those collectors...

More detail?

first, here's some proof you can do yourself, at your own risk. block off your outside unit with cardboard to simulate the same effect this device will do, and see how well your AC works.

robbin
Premium,MVM
join:2000-09-21
Leander, TX
kudos:1
said by iknow_t:

block off your outside unit with cardboard to simulate the same effect this device will do

Do you even have a clue to what the device does? Evidently not. Because what you just posted is really ignorant (not a flame, but that is not at all what the device does and will simulate nothing related to this thread).

iknow_t

join:2012-05-03
said by robbin:

said by iknow_t:

block off your outside unit with cardboard to simulate the same effect this device will do

Do you even have a clue to what the device does? Evidently not. Because what you just posted is really ignorant (not a flame, but that is not at all what the device does and will simulate nothing related to this thread).

on the contrary, it would do the same thing, increase the temperature of the hot side gas. the problem is, when you do that, the pressure of the hot side increases, putting a greater load on the compressor, and less gas is turned into a liquid, and that extra heat going into the TXV or capillary tubes will reduce the cooling effect.


PSWired

join:2006-03-26
Annapolis, MD
reply to robbin
Transfer efficiency increases, but you're now rejecting not only the heat removed from the area being cooled by the refrigeration system, but also the heat added by the collectors to increase the working fluid temperature. I'd imagine the net change does not increase the system efficiency.

robbin
Premium,MVM
join:2000-09-21
Leander, TX
kudos:1
Wait -- isn't the purpose of the compressor to not only increase pressure of the gas but also to raise it's temperature? Aren't the two related such that if you know one you know the other as shown on a pressure temperature chart? If this is the case, how is it different to use heat to raise the pressure versus using the compressor to do all of it? That's what they are claiming -- use the compressor some and use the sun some. How is that not the same end result as running the compressor at a high work load to achieve the same?

iknow_t

join:2012-05-03

1 edit
reply to Corehhi

Re: [Green Tech] Solar assisted heat pump, anyone know something about these??

actually, you don't want to increase the temperature of the gas, that heat has to be removed somewhere, and removing some heat transforms the gas to a liquid. the heat is just a consequence of compression. a second condenser outside with the fan(no compressor) would work better than this, since the liquid would be cooler. higher efficiency ACs use a bigger condenser to cool the liquid more.(a ground source heat pump in cooling mode is the most efficient since the liquid is very cool) I did find a discussion on this company, read the 2 pages, not good!. »forums.pelicanparts.com/off-topi···ems.html I remember a while back there was a device, supposedly designed by NASA, that increased the power factor so much that it saved you a lot of money, that turned out to be a scam too.. both of these are very technical, and many people can be fooled.

robbin
Premium,MVM
join:2000-09-21
Leander, TX
kudos:1
That thread had as much discussion as this one has had.

You are trying to separate the temperature of the compressed gas with the pressure. If you use a compressor to reach a certain pressure and temperature, how is that different than heating the gas to reach a certain temperature and pressure. In the end you have a compressed gas at the same pressure and temperature.

iknow_t

join:2012-05-03
said by robbin:

That thread had as much discussion as this one has had.

You are trying to separate the temperature of the compressed gas with the pressure. If you use a compressor to reach a certain pressure and temperature, how is that different than heating the gas to reach a certain temperature and pressure. In the end you have a compressed gas at the same pressure and temperature.

with a compressor, you have a lower pressure, but most importantly, a lower temperature. that lower temperature is why ground source heat pumps in cool mode work so well.

robbin
Premium,MVM
join:2000-09-21
Leander, TX
kudos:1
The system and refrigerant aren't designed for lower pressure. In fact, the newer ones are much higher pressure than the old ones.

Ground source heat pumps are an entirely different topic. We are not talking about the medium of the heat exchange but a part of the refrigeration process.