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Thenewguy201
join:2013-07-27

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Thenewguy201

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[DOCSIS] What is docsis 3.1?

How much will the speed increase. Will it lower latency? And do they charge you for the new equipment?

mustang50
Premium Member
join:2005-05-06
Roseville, MI

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mustang50

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[Connectivity] Re: What is docsis 3.1?

»CableLabs Releases DOCSIS 3.1 Specification [29] comments

camper
just visiting this planet
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Bethel, CT

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camper to Thenewguy201

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to Thenewguy201
said by Thenewguy201:

What is docsis 3.1

 

DOCSIS 3.1 is a way to get more bandwidth for more customers out of the coaxial cable running down your street.

DOCSIS 3.1 is not this.

NetFixer
From My Cold Dead Hands
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The Boro
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NetFixer to Thenewguy201

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to Thenewguy201
said by Thenewguy201:

How much will the speed increase. Will it lower latency? And do they charge you for the new equipment?

It depends on what the ISP will offer, but eventually higher speeds are likely to be offered. Possibly, but not necessarily. If you are currently renting a DOCSIS 3 modem, no; if you currently own your DOCSIS 3 modem, then you would either need to purchase a new DOCSIS 3.1 modem, or rent one from the ISP.

aSic
application specific
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join:2001-05-17
Wakulla, FL

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aSic

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said by NetFixer:

if you currently own your DOCSIS 3 modem, then you would either need to purchase a new DOCSIS 3.1 modem, or rent one from the ISP.

In keeping with the questions thread... is there really that big of a difference between 3 and 3.1 that all new hardware is required? Or would this likely be a firmware upgrade..?

NetFixer
From My Cold Dead Hands
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join:2004-06-24
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Netgear CM500
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TRENDnet TEW-829DRU

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NetFixer

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said by aSic:

In keeping with the questions thread... is there really that big of a difference between 3 and 3.1 that all new hardware is required? Or would this likely be a firmware upgrade..?

You can look at the specs yourself: »CableLabs Releases DOCSIS 3.1 Specification [29] comments

But if you don't want to look at the above link (that was already posted in this thread) here is my guess: I am not privy to the inside specs of all current DOCSIS 3 products, but I doubt that most (if any) would have the necessary hardware to allow a simple firmware update be able to make them work as a DOCSIS 3.1 device. But perhaps if we have some vendor engineers lurking in this forum (and that is not me), they can definitively provide the information you want.

tshirt
Premium Member
join:2004-07-11
Snohomish, WA

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tshirt to aSic

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to aSic
said by aSic:

that big of a difference between 3 and 3.1 that all new hardware is required?

Yes new hardware is need for D3.1, but D3 and 3.1 can coexist on the same lines. (why comcast is working to remove older modems, I think) so really high speeds will need 3.1 while 3 can handle the "starter speed tier" for a few more years.

train_wreck
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join:2013-10-04
Antioch, TN

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train_wreck to Thenewguy201

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to Thenewguy201
so according to specs downstream speeds can apparently go above 1gbps? wonder if/how regular folk will see speeds like that on their LANs? 10gig ethernet? (prolly not cause of the length limitations)
AVonGauss
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join:2007-11-01
Boynton Beach, FL

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AVonGauss

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said by train_wreck:

10gig ethernet?

10 Gbe is slowing becoming more affordable, it'll be a few more years yet, but it will definitely replace 1 Gbe as the predominant medium. Wireless capacity is also increasing, but it will always lag behind wire speeds.

train_wreck
slow this bird down
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Antioch, TN
Cisco ASA 5506
Cisco DPC3939

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train_wreck

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said by AVonGauss:

10 Gbe is slowing becoming more affordable

FTFY

»www.neweggbusiness.com/P ··· 214028:s

davidc502
join:2002-03-06
Mount Juliet, TN

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davidc502 to Thenewguy201

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to Thenewguy201
What's amazing is some rush to hurry 3.1, yet 3.0 can deliver 1gbps speeds, but isn't being brought to residence.

This tells me the 3.1 technology could or would be used for business situations.

This is a wait and see I suppose.

tshirt
Premium Member
join:2004-07-11
Snohomish, WA

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tshirt

Premium Member

said by davidc502:

yet 3.0 can deliver 1gbps speeds,

It CAN to a limited few, but it doesn't scale well to do that to large numbers of homes (the whole point of DOCSIS) at once due to limited channel space.
D3.1 is the next gen that deals with the legacy induced problem of 1,1.1,2, 3 with massive bandwidth improvements while allowing a smooth and gradual transition for 3 to 3.1 .

Coelispex
join:2013-06-03
Howell, MI

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Coelispex to Thenewguy201

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Dumb question. What's the maximum theoretical speed for cable?

train_wreck
slow this bird down
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train_wreck

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said by Coelispex:

Dumb question. What's the maximum theoretical speed for cable?

dumb answer:

well i know that QAM is the major way data is transferred over a coax line, and 256QAM, the latest version of it, has a max of 38mbps per channel. Most coax systems in the real world only allow a max of 4-16 of these channels to be bonded, increasing that to a theoretical max of 608mbps (16 x 38).

Now i guess if you could bond 100's of channels you could probably get many gigabits of bandwidth, but there are many more people on this forum much more qualified than me to give you more about this.

Coelispex
join:2013-06-03
Howell, MI

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Coelispex

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That's awesome. Thanks for the insight!
madbavarian
join:2013-03-05
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Motorola MB8600
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madbavarian to train_wreck

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From my understanding, that's why native docsis 3.1 doesn't bond channels but uses a single wide frequency swath for upload and another for download. Cutting things up into tiny channels and then using tons of parallel hardware to run each channel is wasteful and expensive.

As for how fast can cable go? Well docsis 3.1 is shooting for 10Gbits/sec down 1Gbit/sec up when using ~200Mhz of spectrum.

dslcreature
Premium Member
join:2010-07-10
Seattle, WA

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dslcreature to Thenewguy201

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to Thenewguy201

Re: [Connectivity] What is docsis 3.1?

»www.youtube.com/watch?v= ··· 2jORPN-s

telcodad
MVM
join:2011-09-16
Lincroft, NJ

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telcodad to Thenewguy201

MVM

to Thenewguy201
BTW - The National Cable & Telecommunications Association (NCTA), CableLabs and other cable organizations will now be marketing/promoting DOCSIS 3.1 technology to consumers using the "Gigasphere" brand name:

Cable Industry Announces “Gigasphere” as New Consumer-Facing Name to Represent DOCSIS 3.1 Technology and Services
NCTA press release - April 28, 2014
»www.ncta.com/news-and-ev ··· ocsis-31

Cable Unveils ‘Gigasphere’ Brand
To Become ‘Consumer-Facing’ Name For DOCSIS 3.1

By Jeff Baumgartner, Multichannel News - April 29, 2014
»multichannel.com/news/te ··· d/374208

EDIT: This article also references a previous one on the latest status/progress of D3.1:

DOCSIS 3.1 Speeds Ahead
But Don't Expect Deployments To Scale Up Until 2017

By Jeff Baumgartner, Multichannel News - April 28, 2014
»www.multichannel.com/new ··· d/374179

tshirt
Premium Member
join:2004-07-11
Snohomish, WA

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tshirt

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said by telcodad:

Gigasphere

God save us all from buzz word marketing.

davidc502
join:2002-03-06
Mount Juliet, TN

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davidc502

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said by tshirt:

God save us all from buzz word marketing.

All you need is the "Cloud"!

Where does my data go? Well sir, it goes into the "Cloud".

Darknessfall
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Darknessfall to tshirt

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said by tshirt:

said by telcodad:

Gigasphere

God save us all from buzz word marketing.

I already didn't like the name Gigapower lol.

train_wreck
slow this bird down
join:2013-10-04
Antioch, TN
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train_wreck to telcodad

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to telcodad
said by telcodad:

Cable Industry Announces "Gigasphere" as New Consumer-Facing Name to Represent DOCSIS 3.1 Technology and Services

but will it be a "service oriented architecture"?

camper
just visiting this planet
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join:2010-03-21
Bethel, CT

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camper

Premium Member

 
Time to get out Dilbert's Buzzword Bingo playing cards....

NathanO
join:2008-08-21
Seattle, WA

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NathanO to train_wreck

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to train_wreck

Re: [Connectivity] Re: What is docsis 3.1?

I got a Dual Port SFP+ 10G NIC used for $75, new they are about $250.

telcodad
MVM
join:2011-09-16
Lincroft, NJ

3 recommendations

telcodad

MVM

Re: [Connectivity] What is docsis 3.1?

Intel and MaxLinear have announced the development of a DOCSIS 3.0 cable modem chipset that can bond up to 32 downstream channels and that is specifically designed to be be able work on (co-exist with) a DOCSIS 3.1 network:

Intel/MaxLinear Chip 'Compatible' With DOCSIS 3.1 Nets
New Silicon Can Bond 32 DOCSIS 3.0 Channels

By Jeff Baumgartner, Multichannel News - September 12, 2014
»www.multichannel.com/new ··· 1/383784

The Intel/MaxLinear press release: »newsroom.intel.com/commu ··· 68-tuner
telcodad

4 recommendations

telcodad

MVM

Looks like DOCSIS 3.1 development is running slightly ahead of schedule now:

McKinney: DOCSIS 3.1 'Slightly Ahead' Of Schedule
CableLabs CEO Sees Chips Surfacing This Year, D3.1 Interops Starting In 1H Of 2015

By Jeff Baumgartner, Multichannel News - September 22, 2014
»www.multichannel.com/new ··· e/384034

Also:

Arris Touts Progress On DOCSIS 3.1, RFoG
Demos D3.1-Based Downstream, Debuts RF-over-Glass Fixer

By Jeff Baumgartner, Multichannel News - September 22, 2014
»www.multichannel.com/new ··· g/384035

Arris Preps First Live DOCSIS 3.1 Demo
By Mari Silbey, Light Reading - September 22, 2014
»www.lightreading.com/cab ··· d/710970
telcodad

1 edit

3 recommendations

telcodad

MVM

Looks like we might see the first hybrid D3/D3.1 modems being released as early as the first half of 2016 now:

CableLabs: Test Time For DOCSIS 3.1 Approaching
Interops, Plugfests To Kick Off This Year

By Jeff Baumgartner, Multichannel News - September 22, 2014
»www.multichannel.com/new ··· g/384070
quote:
Hamzeh said official certification and qualification against the DOCSIS 3.1 specs could start as early as the second quarter of 2015.
:
He also expects there to be a small cost delta between DOCSIS 3.0 modems and DOCSIS 3.1 modems, which will be hybrids that can support both DOCSIS 3.0 and DOCSIS 3.1 spectrum to ensure backwards compatibility.
 
EDIT: Some more details in this FierceCable article:

CableLabs exec: DOCSIS 3.1 certification will begin in 2Q 2015
By Sue Marek, FierceCable - September 24, 2014
»www.fiercecable.com/stor ··· 14-09-24
quote:
... SCTE Director of Engineering Dean Stoneback noted that his group is already working with its members to prepare them for the eventual rollout. He noted that the association has created recommended practices for deploying DOCSIS 3.1, which include encouraging members to optimize their network before they deploy 3.1.

One of the big benefits of DOCSIS 3.1 is that it will have vector signal analyzer capabilities, noted Brady Volpe, president of The Volpe Firm, a consulting company that specializes in all generations of DOCSIS. Specifically, he said that this capability is like having a spectrum analyzer built into your cable modem, making everything more powerful.

However, all panelists emphasized that fact that DOCSIS 3.1 is backward compatible to DOCSIS 3.0, giving cable MSOs flexibility with how they deploy the new platform. "All DOCSIS standards are backwards compatible," Volpe said. "If you have DOCSIS 3.1 in your plant it will operate as DOCSIS 3.0," he added.

jlivingood
Premium Member
join:2007-10-28
Philadelphia, PA

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jlivingood to telcodad

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to telcodad
said by telcodad:

Looks like DOCSIS 3.1 development is running slightly ahead of schedule now:

McKinney: DOCSIS 3.1 'Slightly Ahead' Of Schedule
CableLabs CEO Sees Chips Surfacing This Year, D3.1 Interops Starting In 1H Of 2015

By Jeff Baumgartner, Multichannel News - September 22, 2014
»www.multichannel.com/new ··· e/384034

Also:

Arris Touts Progress On DOCSIS 3.1, RFoG
Demos D3.1-Based Downstream, Debuts RF-over-Glass Fixer

By Jeff Baumgartner, Multichannel News - September 22, 2014
»www.multichannel.com/new ··· g/384035

Arris Preps First Live DOCSIS 3.1 Demo
By Mari Silbey, Light Reading - September 22, 2014
»www.lightreading.com/cab ··· d/710970

Yeah - we are pushing hard to go faster. Also interesting to note, D3.1 will natively include Active Queue Management (AQM) to better address buffer bloat. See »en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bu ··· ferbloat and »www.cablelabs.com/how-do ··· agement/ and »www.cablelabs.com/wp-con ··· work.pdf for details.

telcodad
MVM
join:2011-09-16
Lincroft, NJ

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telcodad

MVM

said by jlivingood:

said by telcodad:

Looks like DOCSIS 3.1 development is running slightly ahead of schedule now:
:

Yeah - we are pushing hard to go faster. Also interesting to note, D3.1 will natively include Active Queue Management (AQM) to better address buffer bloat. See »en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bu ··· ferbloat and »www.cablelabs.com/how-do ··· agement/ and »www.cablelabs.com/wp-con ··· work.pdf for details.

OK, thanks for that update Jason. Are you at the Cable-Tec Expo in Denver this week?

(BTW - A previous thread that discussed Active Queue Management (AQM): »[Speed] CableLabs: Low latency is the next big (cable) thing )
telcodad

1 edit

1 recommendation

telcodad

MVM

said by telcodad:

BTW - The National Cable & Telecommunications Association (NCTA), CableLabs and other cable organizations will now be marketing/promoting DOCSIS 3.1 technology to consumers using the "Gigasphere" brand name:
:

And today D3.1/"Gigasphere" has an official logo

‘Gigasphere’ Has A Logo
Consumer-Facing Brand For DOCSIS 3.1 Announced In April

By Jeff Baumgartner, Multichannel News - September 23, 2014
»www.multichannel.com/blo ··· o/384096

EDIT: Added the the logo here.