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Luka1

join:2001-10-30
Index, WA

Power from telco

Is this for real?

»www.sandman.com/telco.html

If so, I wonder how that "UNIVERSAL VOLTAGE ADAPTER" is made?


SparkChaser
Premium
join:2000-06-06
Downingtown, PA
kudos:4
Reviews:
·Verizon FiOS
A Solution to the Energy Crisis...
Our Chief Scientist, Dr. Emil Drizzlenik PhD from the renowned Chernobyl Electrical Institute in Russia, developed this patented technology after an accident at the power plant left all of the homes and businesses in his area dark.

So, a solution to the energy crisis is stealing 20 mA from the phone company.

I don't think so.

Drizzlenik?
--
"There are in fact two things, science and opinion; the former begets knowledge, the latter ignorance." - Hippocrates

"The good thing about science is that it's true whether or not you believe in it." - Neil deGrasse Tyson


rjackal
Premium
join:2002-07-09
Plymouth, MI
reply to Luka1
said by Luka1:

Is this for real?

No, this site is a joke. Hooking up anything other than approved telco equipment to a telco jack is illegal, a bad idea, and you won't get that much stable current anyway.

Is it real in the sense that you can send a shady character your credit card info and maybe get something "electronic" in return? Probably.


cowboyro
Premium
join:2000-10-11
Shelton, CT
reply to Luka1
Is this for real? Probably. A sucker is being born every minute.
Does it really work? Depends on your definition. The available power - about 100mW - isn't that much. Hell a regular USB port gives 2500mW...
I definitely wouldn't count on charging a car battery with 100mW unless I had a whole week available. Or two...


Luka1

join:2001-10-30
Index, WA
reply to Luka1
ROFLOL

I thought so!

Barnum would be proud!


leibold
Premium,MVM
join:2002-07-09
Sunnyvale, CA
kudos:10
Reviews:
·SONIC.NET

1 recommendation

reply to Luka1
Of course not!

There is sufficient truth mixed in to make some people wonder whether or not it is true but for the most part it is nonsense.

Yes, the telco company has battery banks and generators.
Yes, there is DC voltage on every line whether it is in use or not.
No, there is not more current available then telephones can use.
Even if there was excess power available at the CO, you are at the other end of 1000s of feet of thin copper wire with substantial resistance. This means that there is very little power available to you.

The phone system uses the current drawn to detect whether or not your handset is off-hook. This means drawing even a small current would interfere with the normal operation as a phone.

If you still want to try it out: in some jurisdictions "off-hook, no dial" will be transferred to 911 call centers as a possible emergency.
--
Got some spare cpu cycles ? Join Team Helix or Team Starfire!


Luka1

join:2001-10-30
Index, WA
reply to Luka1
Actually it's too bad.

I wish there were some way to power the DSL modem, from the very phone line it is plugged into.


leibold
Premium,MVM
join:2002-07-09
Sunnyvale, CA
kudos:10
Reviews:
·SONIC.NET
No chance whatsoever. You have less then 1W of telco power to work with and need more then 10W of continuous power to operate the DSL modem. I think the closest to what you are looking for were some T1 network termination units (modem equivalent) that were powered by the telco over two copper pairs.

At least with the rechargeable battery devices you have a chance to charge them over a long period of time for a brief daily usage (like 2 minutes shaving).
--
Got some spare cpu cycles ? Join Team Helix or Team Starfire!


Luka1

join:2001-10-30
Index, WA
Reviews:
·Frontier Communi..
said by leibold:

(like 2 minutes shaving).

ROFLOL

Oh yeah, I need that! (Refer to my avatar. LOL)

Just imagine all the battery power I am saving by not having to shave!


--
We have been talking to myself and have decided that you are all a figment of our imagination.

Who is ED, and why do they keep trying to sell me his meds ?


AppleGuy
Premium
join:2013-09-08
Canada
reply to Luka1
Purchased the vibrator. Power outages stress me out.


TheTechGuru

join:2004-03-25
TEXAS
kudos:2
reply to Luka1
I do wish someone would make a decent 48VDC to 5VDC USB charging adapter so that I don't have to go out to my car to charge a cell phone during power outages.
--
CompTIA Network+ Certified

lutful
... of ideas
Premium
join:2005-06-16
Ottawa, ON
kudos:1
reply to Luka1
said by Luka1:

Is this for real?

»www.sandman.com/telco.html

If so, I wonder how that "UNIVERSAL VOLTAGE ADAPTER" is made?

Such circuits used to be published in various electronics magazines in the 1980s.

"Draw 150mW of Isolated Power from Off-Hook Phone Line" was published way back in 1998 and mentions an earlier 1994 article.
»www.maximintegrated.com/app-note···/id/1923

"Off-hook" is the key word in such power stealing applications. Because if the phone line is in the "On-hook" state, you can't steal even 50mW without being detectable by the telco.

lutful
... of ideas
Premium
join:2005-06-16
Ottawa, ON
kudos:1
reply to SparkChaser
said by SparkChaser:

Drizzlenik?

That page gets funnier near the end:

Dr. Drizzlenick and Director General Tolstonogov have developed alternate versions of all of the items you see on this web page, which run on common depleted uranium.
...
Nobody else in the world has the Nuclear safety expertise that Dr. Drizzlenick and the other Chernobyl scientists have.
...
The technology behind Telco Powered Products™ is covered under US Patent No. 4773863, and other worldwide patents.


I actually looked up that patent: »www.google.com/patents/US4773863
"Amusement device for a toilet bowl or urinal"


SmokChsr
Who let the magic smoke out?
Premium
join:2006-03-17
Saint Augustine, FL

4 recommendations

reply to Luka1
Just FYI, that is a "onion" »www.theonion.com/ style page.. Sandman.com is actually a very reputable and good supplier of telco products..
Just didn't want you to get the idea that the whole site was a spoof..

TheMG
Premium
join:2007-09-04
Canada
kudos:3
Reviews:
·NorthWest Tel
reply to Luka1
As has been said, the power available from the telco line is next to nothing. Think about it, have you ever seen a cordless telephone base that doesn't require an AC adapter to work? There's only enough power there to run the electronics inside a plain old corded phone, that is, the DTMF tone generator, audio amplifiers, and maybe a few LEDs if the phone has lighted buttons (such phones with LEDs tend to load down the phone line pretty bad, you can only have one hooked up).

You're way better off getting a battery and a small solar panel, which will provide far more power than you can get out of the telco line.


tschmidt
Premium,MVM
join:2000-11-12
Milford, NH
kudos:9
Reviews:
·Hollis Hosting
·G4 Communications

1 recommendation

reply to Luka1
I'm coming late to the party but as others have posted power to operate a POTS phone is supplied by the central office. Which is one of the reasons conversion from copper to fiber is controversial. Fiber for all its virtues is not a conductor so cannot send electrical power over the cable.

The 48ish voltage is on the on hook position, phone hung up. Off hook, in use, phone draws about 20ma and voltage drops down to 7ish volts due to line resistance. BORSCHT anyone?

So as leibold See Profile posted just enough accurate info to make it believable.

I had though sandman.com had gone out of business years ago. If they are still the same company they actually are a good source of phone stuff.

/tom

Mango
What router are you using?
Premium
join:2008-12-25
www.toao.net
kudos:13
reply to SmokChsr
said by SmokChsr:

Sandman.com is actually a very reputable and good supplier of telco products.

+1

lutful
... of ideas
Premium
join:2005-06-16
Ottawa, ON
kudos:1
reply to leibold
said by leibold:

... need more then 10W of continuous power to operate the DSL modem. I think the closest to what you are looking for were some T1 network termination units (modem equivalent) that were powered by the telco over two copper pairs.

Just noticed this exchange and wanted to add that some VDSL modems in overseas networks are actually powered from the loop. There is a standard which delivers upto 15W at 1000m range.

TheMG
Premium
join:2007-09-04
Canada
kudos:3
Reviews:
·NorthWest Tel
said by lutful:

Just noticed this exchange and wanted to add that some VDSL modems in overseas networks are actually powered from the loop. There is a standard which delivers upto 15W at 1000m range.

I'm going to go ahead and assume that these would be dedicated "dry" (no POTS) VDSL loops? I wonder what voltage they use?

T1 circuits often have -130VDC on them which powers the CSU/DSU at the CPE. Not sure how much current is available though. Sure gets your attention though when you're poking around a 66 block and rub your hand against it!

b10010011
Whats a Posting tag?

join:2004-09-07
Bellingham, WA
Reviews:
·Comcast Formerl..
reply to Luka1
Don't waste your money, you can build the adapter for under $10.

»www.instructables.com/id/FREE-Hi···ricity!/

Of course you are still limited as others have stated.
--
Bellingham Scanner Kicks Ass! »bhamscanner.kicks-ass.org/


UHF
All static, all day, Forever
Premium,MVM
join:2002-05-24
Reviews:
·Mediacom
·Callcentric
·Dish Network
reply to TheMG
said by TheMG:

I'm going to go ahead and assume that these would be dedicated "dry" (no POTS) VDSL loops? I wonder what voltage they use?

T1 circuits often have -130VDC on them which powers the CSU/DSU at the CPE. Not sure how much current is available though. Sure gets your attention though when you're poking around a 66 block and rub your hand against it!

Had some HDSL circuits that were loop powered way back when. And yes, the -130VDC T1 circuits bit me more than once


aurgathor

join:2002-12-01
Lynnwood, WA
kudos:1
Reviews:
·Frontier Communi..

1 recommendation

reply to b10010011
said by b10010011:

Don't waste your money, you can build the adapter for under $10.

»www.instructables.com/id/FREE-Hi···ricity!/

Of course you are still limited as others have stated.

That circuit uses a linear regulator, so you won't get much current out of it. To maximize the amount of power drawn and current sourced, especially at low voltage, it has to use a switching regulator.
--
.sig


dandeman
Premium,MVM
join:2001-12-05
Chapel Hill, NC
Reviews:
·AT&T Southeast
reply to Luka1
Pretty good write up of the typical POTS interface... and why on hook power available could be as low as 5 micro amps...

»massis.lcs.mit.edu/archives/tech···nes.work


LazMan
Premium
join:2003-03-26
canada
reply to UHF
said by UHF:

said by TheMG:

I'm going to go ahead and assume that these would be dedicated "dry" (no POTS) VDSL loops? I wonder what voltage they use?

T1 circuits often have -130VDC on them which powers the CSU/DSU at the CPE. Not sure how much current is available though. Sure gets your attention though when you're poking around a 66 block and rub your hand against it!

Had some HDSL circuits that were loop powered way back when. And yes, the -130VDC T1 circuits bit me more than once

Usually current limited to 25 or 100mA, depending on how many repeaters/doublers were in the loop.

Either way, it'll get your attention!

lutful
... of ideas
Premium
join:2005-06-16
Ottawa, ON
kudos:1

1 recommendation

reply to dandeman
said by dandeman:

Pretty good write up of the typical POTS interface... and why on hook power available could be as low as 5 micro amps...

»massis.lcs.mit.edu/archives/tech···nes.work

I quote this section just in case the link disappears:
Although the telephone company has supplied plenty of nice clean DC direct to your home, don't assume you have a free battery for your own circuits.

The telephone company wants the DC resistance of your line to be about 10 megOhms when there's no apparatus in use ("on hook," in telephone company jargon); you can draw no more than 5 microamperes while the phone is in that
state.

When the phone is in use, or "off hook," you can draw current, but you will need that current to power your phone, any current you might draw for other purposes would tend to lower the signal level.