dslreports logo
 
    All Forums Hot Topics Gallery
spc
Search similar:


uniqs
3300

flinchlock
Premium Member
join:2003-04-25
Augusta, MI
ARRIS SB6121
Obihai OBi200

flinchlock

Premium Member

[General] Vonage, no caller block, byebye Vonage

We have been with Vonage since Oct 23, 2008 and have never had any problem of any kind.

Even though we have our phone listed in the “Do Not Call Registry” since 11/29/2008, and again in 01/27/10 and 02/08/12, we are getting more and more marketing calls.

Vonage does have Anonymous Call Block, International Call Block, and 411 Directory Assistance Call Block, it does not have Block a Phone Number.

»support.vonage.com/app/a ··· id/13990
quote:
You cannot block a phone number or caller from ringing your Vonage phone at this time.
Our phone system is wired like this: Comcast => Motorola SB5101 => Vonage Box => ASUS WL-520GU w/TOMATO RAF Firmware => Panasonic KX-TG1034 base.

So, we are looking for a replacement for Vonage.

We live near Kalamazoo, MI and do not call outside of the USA, only call children in Michigan, California, and North Carolina.

Our average Vonage phone usage for the last 17 months:
$18.02/month
122 plan minutes/month (Vonage U.S. & Canada 400 plan, max minutes: 191, min minutes: 54)
136 calls/month (includes in and out, max calls: 196, min calls: 83)

The new BYOD VoIP service must have:
- Block a Phone Number
- Do Not Disturb (Enable *78/Disable *79 from the phone handset)
- visual message waiting indicator (VMWI) (optionally audible stuttered dial tone)
- voice mail stored on the new service (not in the phone base)
- online account management
- Caller ID (Name & Number)
- something like the Vonage Network Availability Number feature (if internet is down, forward to another phone number)

I am leaning towards buying an OBi100 to use with a Obihai ITSP partner (»blog.obihai.com/2013/12/ ··· buy.html) or Vestalink or ???

Mike
PX Eliezer1
Premium Member
join:2013-03-10
Zubrowka USA

2 edits

2 recommendations

PX Eliezer1

Premium Member

If you want a full-service turnkey replacement for Vonage, you might want to look at the company called "Voipo". They supply the adapter, so it's not BYOD unless you want that. Two-year payment gets the best deal.

-----

For BYOD, I would give strong consideration to CallCentric which will work fine with the Obi device.

CallCentric just like many other BYOD companies, you select inbound plan and outbound plan individually based on needs.

CallCentric is very user friendly and has an easy website and lots of blocking capabilities, great customer service. And they have a long track record.

You guys are [small users], PAYG plans on CC would be best. Even at 200 minutes (100 inbound and 100 outbound) which is more minutes than you now use, it would be:

[EDITED because I was hypoglycemic and forgot the DID charge]:

Pay Per Call outbound: 100 minutes = 1.98
Pay Per Minute inbound: 100 minutes = 1.50 plus the DID at 1.95/month.
911 service @ 1.50

Total monthly: 6.93

[Small one-time setup fees, otherwise no other fees, and no taxes except for NY State residents.]

[Bigger users may do better with flat rate plans].

CallCentric plans:
»www.callcentric.com/products/

CallCentric and the Obi:
»www.callcentric.com/supp ··· i/obi100
»www.callcentric.com/supp ··· i/obi202

Schergist
@46.165.197.x

Schergist to flinchlock

Anon

to flinchlock
I use voip.ms which has all the call-blocking you could want, though I followed the advice of somebody here and uploaded a recording to voip.ms's IVR that says: Press 1 to ring the phone.

That blocks telemarketer robo-calls (which seems to be what they all use), while humans just press 1.

At night, callers get another recording giving them a choice of entering 7 to go to voicemail, or getting disconnected - except for family and friends, who are whitelisted, and whose calls ring the phone immediately.

Voip.ms charges me 1 cent / minute outgoing and the same for incoming. My DID costs $1.00 / month. I have the 911 feature which costs $1.50 / month.

Everything just works. Could not be happier.
zamarac
join:2008-11-29
Canada

zamarac to flinchlock

Member

to flinchlock
said by flinchlock:

it does not have Block a Phone Number

I noticed that large profit VoSPs are hesitant to provide this particular feature frequently requested by customers. It may be due to close ties with telemarketers, and because of certain law restrictions, since some entities like collection and government agencies need to have means to contact their clients.
OzarkEdge
join:2014-02-23
USA

OzarkEdge to flinchlock

Member

to flinchlock
said by flinchlock:

The new BYOD VoIP service must have:
- Block a Phone Number
- Do Not Disturb (Enable *78/Disable *79 from the phone handset)
- visual message waiting indicator (VMWI) (optionally audible stuttered dial tone)
- voice mail stored on the new service (not in the phone base)
- online account management
- Caller ID (Name & Number)
- something like the Vonage Network Availability Number feature (if internet is down, forward to another phone number)

I am leaning towards buying an OBi100 to use with a Obihai ITSP partner

An OBi202 or 302 ata (for the second phone port) on a per minute plan with VoIP.ms would have you up and calling in no time.

>>- Block a Phone Number

Via the voip.ms portal.

>>- Do Not Disturb (Enable *78/Disable *79 from the phone handset)

Via the Obi star codes. See »www.obihai.com/docs/OBiD ··· uide.pdf for all the ata options/features.

>>- visual message waiting indicator (VMWI) (optionally audible stuttered dial tone)

VoIP mailbox associated with account/sub-account sends the signal. The OBi can be configured to forward stutter tone, visual, or both indicators to any phone port, from any configured SIP service/account. Your phone should indicate as instructed.

>>- voice mail stored on the new service (not in the phone base)

VoIP.ms voicemail is decentralized... stored on the primary POP server you choose to use. They have servers spread around. Maybe they will centralize their vm someday to simplify POP server changes... but not a show stopper now, imo.

>>- online account management

For the ITSP, VoIP.ms, of course. I prefer to manage the ata directly, myself vs. using the OBiTALK portal.

>>- Caller ID (Name & Number)

Name can be set in the ata. Number can be set for each account/sub-account/SIP service on the VoIP.ms portal. The OBi gives some local control over Caller ID... see the star codes in the guide. Not sure WHAT shows on the other end!

>>- something like the Vonage Network Availability Number feature (if internet is down, forward to another phone number)

VoIP.ms allows various DID inbound call routing options:

SIP/IAX account1,2,3...
IVR
Calling Queue
Time Conditions
Call Forwarding
SIP URI
Ring Group
Play Recording
Callback
DISA
Voicemail
System (hangup, etc.)
None

Also on busy, no answer, inactive.

See their website for the no nonsense details. Callcentric would be my other option, but I went with VoIP.ms, to begin with.

OE

slyphoxj
join:2002-06-23
united state

slyphoxj to flinchlock

Member

to flinchlock
If you don't mind paying for a year's service upfront, Vestalink has a $24.99/year plan for 500 minutes a month. Or you can go month-to-month for $4.99/month. Vestalink has number blocking for individual numbers only, not nearly as comprehensive as Callcentric's and a failover feature that will send calls to another number if your phone adapter device isn't connected to Vestalink due to internet, Vestalink or power outage. I believe Vestalink also has voicemail. They also have online account management, but not nearly as comprehensive as Callcentric's. I'm not sure about Do Not Disturb.

I signed up with them about a week or so ago and use them for my outgoing calls only and still use Callcentric for my incoming calls. I paid $39.99 for a year and get 2000 minutes a month for outgoing calls... much less expensive than Callcentric. (My home line has gotten up to to around 1,300 minutes of minutes of usage). I hope Vestlink (formerly known as Intelafone and Obivoice) can hang on for at least a few months... they're fairly new (but Intafone has been around since 2010?).

If Vestalink goes under, I can just simply go back to the North American 500 or 1000 plan on Callcentric for my outgoing calls, or use Callwithus or Localphone and leave my number with Callcentric... that's the beauty of the Obi devices.

flinchlock
Premium Member
join:2003-04-25
Augusta, MI
ARRIS SB6121
Obihai OBi200

flinchlock to PX Eliezer1

Premium Member

to PX Eliezer1

Re: Vonage, no caller block, byebye Vonage

Voipo does not have DND from the phone handset. If the wife and I want to take a "nap", the mood will be gone by the time I login to Voipo to enable DND.

»www.voipo.com/help/artic ··· -67.html
quote:
From your vPanel Account Management Tool account.voipo.com
1) Click on "Features"
2) Select "Do Not Disturb" on the left column
3) Select your desired option of 'busy signal' or 'voicemail'
PX Eliezer1
Premium Member
join:2013-03-10
Zubrowka USA

1 edit

PX Eliezer1

Premium Member

said by flinchlock:

Voipo does not have DND from the phone handset.

Incorrect, they do.

See
»www.voipo.com/help/artic ··· -19.html

flinchlock
Premium Member
join:2003-04-25
Augusta, MI
ARRIS SB6121
Obihai OBi200

flinchlock to OzarkEdge

Premium Member

to OzarkEdge
per »www.obihai.com/docs/OBiD ··· uide.pdf
quote:
Do Not Disturb (DND) allows you to set the phone to immediately forward calls made to your OBi to the number set-up as your voicemail number / account. If no voicemail account is set-up, the OBi will return a busy signal to the caller until you turn off DND. To turn on DND, from a phone attached to the OBi, dial *78. To turn off DND, from a phone attached to your OBi, dial *79.
OK, GREAT! (my bolding)
flinchlock

flinchlock to PX Eliezer1

Premium Member

to PX Eliezer1
Geez, sorry I did not find that web page.

THANKS!
PX Eliezer1
Premium Member
join:2013-03-10
Zubrowka USA

PX Eliezer1 to zamarac

Premium Member

to zamarac

Re: [General] Vonage, no caller block, byebye Vonage

said by zamarac:

I noticed that large profit VoSPs are hesitant to provide this particular feature frequently requested by customers. It may be due to close ties with telemarketers, and because of certain law restrictions, since some entities like collection and government agencies need to have means to contact their clients.

I've never encountered any evidence that this was a deliberate conspiracy begun by collection agencies or ex-wives.

Rather:

1) The smaller independent VoIP providers [have] to provide added features or lower prices, or both, to compete against the big boys.

2) The big cable players such as Comcast Digital Voice, Optimum Voice from Cablevision, etc, etc, never really needed to offer lots of advanced features. THEY prospered by being sold along with the cable TV and internet service, as part of triple play packages. They didn't even have to try that hard, because [any] phone service from the cable company is cheaper than POTS and offers at least some features for no extra charge such as CID.

3) Vonage is middle ground. No longer attractive on price but lots of old customers who stick around. Used to be in the forefront with features, but now stuck with old hardwired technology and lack of innovation. Trying desperately to survive against cable company triple plays and young people going totally cellular. Major marketing now focuses on their low-calorie "Basic Talk" brand to compete with MJ, and on international calling packages.
PX Eliezer1

PX Eliezer1 to flinchlock

Premium Member

to flinchlock
In any event, as you see there are many good options out there for you.

-----

Earlier I provided Voipo's list of handset shortcuts.

Here is the handset shortcut list for CallCentric:
»www.callcentric.com/faq/4/321
zamarac
join:2008-11-29
Canada

3 edits

zamarac to PX Eliezer1

Member

to PX Eliezer1
said by PX Eliezer1:

I've never encountered any evidence that this was a deliberate conspiracy

Who would provide such evidence to you - was there an investigation? Why under Bill Clinton, oil prices fell to $2 a gallon - read on relevant antitrust DoJ investigations.

The feature to block unwanted phone calls is NOT innovative, and was THE MOST requested by Vonage customers for many years. They deliberately decided to not provide this feature despite minuscule cost of adding it to their servers, and easy of use for average customer. It required of course increased web server capacity due to a lot more frequent customer visits to block numbers, but the real reason was hidden contracts with telemarketers and debt collectors who extensively use Vonage network and pay for it, and who's calls people most frequently want to block.

Small VoSP players have no such contracts whatsoever, hence willingness to provide that particular feature among others. This feature is one of the highest requested by consumers, no VoSP can ignore it without having a very serious reason, especially when so many customers leave.
PX Eliezer1
Premium Member
join:2013-03-10
Zubrowka USA

PX Eliezer1

Premium Member

said by zamarac:

This feature is one of the highest requested by consumers, no VoSP can ignore it without having a very serious reason, especially when so many customers leave.

Which is precisely why I doubt your conspiracy theory and your extraordinary gossamer speculations.

You assume that debt collectors and telemarketers use Vonage. Actually they usually use termination providers directly. There are a whole lot of termination providers of varying respectability, many of whom welcome that traffic. One such has been alleged to be Pacific Telecom Communications Group (NOT to be confused with several companies with similar names).

None of that relates to Vonage. Why would they use Vonage as an intermediary instead of using a cheap termination provider directly?

Vonage has 2.5 million subscriber lines. That's a [small fraction] of the whole country. It's not enough to worry the telemarketers and collection agencies in terms of call blocking.

As for your assumption that it's "easy" to bring in that feature, Vonage is an old company and has a lot of hardwired equipment. In a sense the old stuff is more reliable than the newer systems that are more software based, but it's also harder to bring in new features.

-----

As may have been said by Hanlon, or Heinlein, or even Napoleon:

Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity.

.

Disclaimer: If I were in better shape, I could ride my bike to Vonage headquarters.
zamarac
join:2008-11-29
Canada

zamarac

Member

Claiming that Vonage management is stupid requires from one to demonstrate first similar or higher ability to make money in quantities they do.

Unless you can demonstrate that, stick to my "conspiracy theory". Vonage is not alone in purposely denying this particular feature despite massive consumer requests - most if not all large players do for the very definitive reason - to avoid huge profit loss.
PX Eliezer1
Premium Member
join:2013-03-10
Zubrowka USA

PX Eliezer1

Premium Member

Your conspiracy theory violates Occam's Razor, and does not make sense on the numbers.

But I don't think I'll convince you of that....
zamarac
join:2008-11-29
Canada

1 edit

zamarac

Member

On the contrary, I'm quite often convinced by your logic and sense of humour, not to mention nice (tele)phony poetry, yet with some minor exceptions.

Btw major telcos are some of the most aggressive telemarketers themselves. Would you expect them to shut down their key advertising and sales channels? They're not That stupid as your "stupidity theory" assumes.

flinchlock
Premium Member
join:2003-04-25
Augusta, MI
ARRIS SB6121
Obihai OBi200

1 edit

flinchlock to PX Eliezer1

Premium Member

to PX Eliezer1
said by PX Eliezer1:

Pay Per Call outbound: 100 minutes = 1.98
Pay Per Minute inbound (includes phone #): 100 minutes = 1.50
911 service @ 1.50

Total monthly (no added fees or taxes): 4.98

inbound has a 1.95/month and a one-time setup of 3.95
911 service has a one-time setup of 1.50

24*(4.98+1.95) + 3.95 + 1.50 = 177.77 (24 months)
OBi100 37.98 (I have amz prime)
========
177.77 + 37.98 = 209.75 (8.74/month)

Voipo 2yr plan 149.00 + 36.00 = 185.00 (7.71/month)

Even though Voipo is cheaper for 2 yrs, CC will be better for year 3 and beyond, and CC has very good reviews.

PX Eliezer, THANK YOU!

Mike

P.S. OBi100 ordered
PX Eliezer1
Premium Member
join:2013-03-10
Zubrowka USA

PX Eliezer1

Premium Member

Thanks for correcting my calculations on CC, obviously I was having an off day yesterday.

I'll edit my original.

I am glad that it will end up working for you. Aside from the numbers, I think that you will find it reliable and easy to get to know.

Bonjour
@host-stage-dns.com

Bonjour to zamarac

Anon

to zamarac
said by zamarac:

Btw major telcos are some of the most aggressive telemarketers themselves. Would you expect them to shut down their key advertising and sales channels? They're not That stupid as your "stupidity theory" assumes.

Makes sense to me. Given customer demand, the moneygrubbers at Vonage would jump at the chance to put in a blocking option if they did not make more money by keeping the lines open for their telemarketer customers.

They probably figure, correctly, that most customers are shackled by inertia, think Vonage is the pinnacle of VOIP, and will keep the service no matter how much they are jerked around, because they are afraid of the difficulties of setting up a pap2 and choosing a smaller, far better if they only knew, voip provider.
twinclouds
join:2010-06-12
San Diego, CA

twinclouds

Member

I recently tried Vonage but had to cancel the service after only less than two weeks. The US calls are o.k. However, the calls to China were unacceptable. First, it gets 10 seconds to get connected. More importantly, some calls will drop after one to two minutes. The representative said she will adjust the setting to make it more reliable. However, actually it getting worse. Even though I am not a picky person, probably overly so, I still cannot accept such a service.

flinchlock
Premium Member
join:2003-04-25
Augusta, MI
ARRIS SB6121
Obihai OBi200

flinchlock

Premium Member

Callcentirc +1, Vonage -1

From Callcentric Customer Support
Mar 21, 2014 03:35 PM : We have submitted your request to port...
Mar 24, 2014 08:54 PM : We have received a porting date ... expected to port on 03/27/2014.
Mar 27, 2014 11:57 AM : Your number has ported to Callcentric and final provisioning is currently being completed. You will be updated once your port is complete.
Mar 27, 2014 11:58 AM : Your number(s) has been successfully ported to Callcentric.
At this time we have:
1. Verified your ported number(s) are reachable from multiple carriers.
2. Assigned your number(s) under the phone number product(s) you previously selected - this may have also been charged to your account balance or credit card depending on what products you selected.
This should complete this LNP order. Once you have tested your number(s), you should contact your previous carrier and make sure they have canceled your service.

"Only" 5 days, 20 hours, 23 minutes

Mike
fparker
join:2008-04-28
Scarborough, ON

fparker

Member

voip.ms took 7 days to port mine, 5 days does not seem so unusual.

huntermcdole
Premium Member
join:2005-08-01
Oxnard, CA

huntermcdole to flinchlock

Premium Member

to flinchlock

Re: [General] Vonage, no caller block, byebye Vonage

If you know anyone on Vonage after you leave have them try to call you. When I left they didn't remove my number from their list so it would try to call me on Vonage instead of SunRocket. I had to put a ticket in to have them remove my number from their switch. (ported number from Qwest to Vonage to SunRocket)
mrdialup
join:2013-11-17

mrdialup to flinchlock

Member

to flinchlock
I wouldn't blame Vonage for un-blocked calls. In fact, I wouldn't blame any telephone provider. I never see it discussed much but as far as I am concerned the U.S. telephone network has a huge security flaw with regards to Caller ID in that it can be spoofed by anybody without alot of work. Not only can it be spoofed, even the Bells will take the (potentially) faked CID and add legitimacy to it by providing CNAME as well. As the receiver of a call, how are you supposed to know if the originator of the call is truly the CID and CNAME you see? At this point in the U.S., there is no way to know.

With the proliferation of VOIP, let's face it, the Do Not Call registry is a joke and assumes everyone with access to the U.S. telephone network plays by the rules. Maybe we should do it like other countries who require proof of identity in order to have any type of number, whether POTS or VOIP, that has access to the telephone network.
zamarac
join:2008-11-29
Canada

zamarac

Member

said by mrdialup:

assumes everyone with access to the U.S. telephone network plays by the rules.

Actually the way telemarketers work, and given the kind of agents involved with this trade, I don't think they endlessly change their phone credentials. A common rule would be to never answer any personal questions to anyone who calls you - just because you don't have to, and can always call back if needed.
mrdialup
join:2013-11-17

1 recommendation

mrdialup

Member

said by zamarac:

Actually the way telemarketers work, and given the kind of agents involved with this trade, I don't think they endlessly change their phone credentials. A common rule would be to never answer any personal questions to anyone who calls you - just because you don't have to, and can always call back if needed.

That's a rule I follow, if someone calls me I don't assume they necessarily are who the number claims they are. But you and I know this because we understand some things about the telephone system that 99.99% of people do not know. I doubt most people would question the authenticity of the CID and CNAME they were provided by the phone system.
PX Eliezer1
Premium Member
join:2013-03-10
Zubrowka USA

PX Eliezer1 to mrdialup

Premium Member

to mrdialup
said by mrdialup:

......I am concerned the U.S. telephone network has a huge security flaw with regards to Caller ID in that it can be spoofed by anybody without alot of work. Not only can it be spoofed, even the Bells will take the (potentially) faked CID and add legitimacy to it by providing CNAME as well......

Excellent point and a rather disturbing one.
mrdialup
join:2013-11-17

mrdialup to flinchlock

Member

to flinchlock
I wonder if you tried to spoof a government issued number, say the White House, Congress, FBI, DOD, etc., that it would go through? I don't know.
twinclouds
join:2010-06-12
San Diego, CA

twinclouds

Member

I thought usually they will call the number that you want to spoof back for you to verify. It does not solve all the problems but at least you cannot spoof any number that you like.
May be there's other ways to go around it but there always a way to avoid anything as long as you know how to do.