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bushleaguer
join:2007-01-22
Gillette, NJ

bushleaguer

Member

Question Regarding Splitters - What To Get And Where?

Hi,

I've been having ongoing issues with pixelation during DVR playback (already had the DVR replaced) on remote boxes and an ongoing issue with a single channel and tech support wants to come and do some repair on the cables in my house.

While I would much rather have a Verizon tech guy do this (I'm not too keen on heights) I had sticker shock at the costs......$91 for the initial walk-through and analysis and $41/half hour afterwards. Needless to say, if the tech thinks that the wiring needs to be replaced completely this could get very expensive.

So what I would like to try on my own first is to replace all of the splitters. My problem is that I don't know what kind to get (I've seen ones with differing frequency ranges) and perhaps a website that is a reliable source (I'm thinking newegg but I'm open to anything). Any help would be greatly appreciated and hopefully would save me a lot of $$$$.
crgauth
join:2004-05-18
Glen Burnie, MD

crgauth

Member

Before you go out and buy splitters, try the following:
1) Make sure all of your connections are tight. Couldn't hurt to disconnect and reconnect.
2) What is your layout (ie how many splitters and how are boxes connected). It may be that you have too many splitters.
3) What type of cable and how long is the run? If you have just recently upgraded to FIOS and are having problems, it could be that cable is too long for the type it is. More expensive cable can run longer distances.
4) All of that being said, you can check to see what the data rate is between boxes.
To do that do the following:
Turn box off.
Immediately hit Ok button. You should get a menu.
Scroll down to d16 (Connected home) Hit ok.
Scroll down to page 4. This is the data rates. If I remember correctly, all should be greater than 190 for good service.
Unfortunately this does not give an indication as to which box is which.

Getting back to your original question: You can by splitters anywhere. As long as they are good for at least 1GHz, they will be fine.
bushleaguer
join:2007-01-22
Gillette, NJ

1 edit

bushleaguer

Member

Thanks for the reply and tips, crgauth.

So far, tech support had me make sure all connections were tight and they were. For good measure they had me disconnect and reconnect all connections.

The layout is as follows:

From where the line exits the ONT on one side of the house, there is a two-way splitter that leads to one TV on a top floor and the second is a long run up the house, through the attic and back down to the other side of the house. From there, the line splits two ways....one to another TV on the top floor and another line (short run) to a room on the bottom floor. In said bottom floor room, there is a 3-way splitter....one to the DVR, one to another remote HD box and one to the router.

As far as the cabling goes, all cable was installed by Verizon years ago so I would imagine that it is up to their standards. I've read that RG6 is good cable should I need to replace some myself but I could be wrong.

I'll check the data rates on all the boxes. Tech support said they tested the signal strength on their end and all is good but there is obviously still a problem. **Update....I tried turning the box off and immediately pressing the 'OK' button but haven't been able to get anything to appear.

As far as the splitter goes, as long as the maximum for each split (i.e. connection) is 1GHz then it's fine.....do I have that right? For example, this would be just fine to get.....

»www.amazon.com/Extreme-U ··· splitter

On a side note......it's been a while since I've done a do-it-yourself job and Radio Shack's prices have gotten obscene.

amarryat
Verizon FiOS
join:2005-05-02
Marshfield, MA

amarryat

Member

You mentioned the 3 way where one of the lines goes to the DVR. Is the -3.5 output going to the DVR? If not, I'd try switching and see if that makes a difference.
bushleaguer
join:2007-01-22
Gillette, NJ

bushleaguer

Member

said by amarryat:

You mentioned the 3 way where one of the lines goes to the DVR. Is the -3.5 output going to the DVR? If not, I'd try switching and see if that makes a difference.

Thanks....I'll check.

amarryat
Verizon FiOS
join:2005-05-02
Marshfield, MA

amarryat

Member

You also may want to try the signal check before and after. I forget how you do it, but there used to be an option in the menu.
marc3565
join:2009-10-08

marc3565 to bushleaguer

Member

to bushleaguer
MENU on remote
> CUSTOMER SUPPORT> TOP SUPPORT TOOLS > SYSTEM INFORMATION.
Then press the INFO button on remote

Should show the info the previous posters are talking about
sneakaround
join:2001-06-19
Staten Island, NY

sneakaround to bushleaguer

Member

to bushleaguer
said by bushleaguer:

From where the line exits the ONT on one side of the house, there is a two-way splitter that leads to one TV on a top floor and the second is a long run up the house, through the attic and back down to the other side of the house. From there, the line splits two ways....one to another TV on the top floor and another line (short run) to a room on the bottom floor. In said bottom floor room, there is a 3-way splitter....one to the DVR, one to another remote HD box and one to the router.

Swapping taps for those first two splitters might also help to even out the loss to all locations.

amarryat
Verizon FiOS
join:2005-05-02
Marshfield, MA

amarryat

Member

Don't the 2-way splitters have equal outputs on both taps?
Shady Bimmer
Premium Member
join:2001-12-03

Shady Bimmer to bushleaguer

Premium Member

to bushleaguer
said by bushleaguer:

**Update....I tried turning the box off and immediately pressing the 'OK' button but haven't been able to get anything to appear.

As noted by marc3565 See Profile, you can check some signal details (the most important details) for the current channel on the current tuner via the IMG menus. Menu -> Customer Support -> Top Support Tools -> System Information. Then press the 'Info' button.

You should do this while tuned to the single channel that is giving you a problem.

Under 'Channel Information' SNR Level should show as 'GOOD' and SNR Value should be above low thirties (around 35 dB or so). Short Term Error Count should be '0'.

You can get to the STB diagnostics menu (referenced by crgauth See Profile by pressing 'OK' (or 'select') twice immediately after turning the box off. It may take several seconds before a display shows on the TV. The above details are found there as well as a bit more info. Press 'Power' to exit this menu.

Since you noted you are having an issue with viewing material with a remote DVR, have you verified the same recordings view OK locally to that DVR to rule out the recordings themselves? Just to be complete you should probably check the signals (via the above) on both STBs.

Since it sounds like there is only a single 3-way splitter between the two STBs and router this helps narrow down potential sources of problems.
sneakaround
join:2001-06-19
Staten Island, NY

sneakaround to amarryat

Member

to amarryat
said by amarryat:

Don't the 2-way splitters have equal outputs on both taps?

Yes.

So at the first splitter half of the total signal goes to the first tv the other half goes on down the line. At the second splitter half of the remaining signal(1/4 of the original)) goes to the second tv and the rest goes to the 3 way splitter. At the 3 way splitter half of the remaninging signal (1/8 of the original) goes to the 3dB port and a quarter of the remaining signal (1/16 of the original) goes to each 7dB port. Taps would even out the signal level better. I did not account for loss in the cable and I did the math quickly in my head so please excuse any inaccuracies.
bushleaguer
join:2007-01-22
Gillette, NJ

bushleaguer to sneakaround

Member

to sneakaround
said by sneakaround:

said by bushleaguer:

From where the line exits the ONT on one side of the house, there is a two-way splitter that leads to one TV on a top floor and the second is a long run up the house, through the attic and back down to the other side of the house. From there, the line splits two ways....one to another TV on the top floor and another line (short run) to a room on the bottom floor. In said bottom floor room, there is a 3-way splitter....one to the DVR, one to another remote HD box and one to the router.

Swapping taps for those first two splitters might also help to even out the loss to all locations.

Taps???
bushleaguer

bushleaguer to Shady Bimmer

Member

to Shady Bimmer
said by Shady Bimmer:

said by bushleaguer:

**Update....I tried turning the box off and immediately pressing the 'OK' button but haven't been able to get anything to appear.

As noted by marc3565 See Profile, you can check some signal details (the most important details) for the current channel on the current tuner via the IMG menus. Menu -> Customer Support -> Top Support Tools -> System Information. Then press the 'Info' button.

You should do this while tuned to the single channel that is giving you a problem.

Under 'Channel Information' SNR Level should show as 'GOOD' and SNR Value should be above low thirties (around 35 dB or so). Short Term Error Count should be '0'.

You can get to the STB diagnostics menu (referenced by crgauth See Profile by pressing 'OK' (or 'select') twice immediately after turning the box off. It may take several seconds before a display shows on the TV. The above details are found there as well as a bit more info. Press 'Power' to exit this menu.

Since you noted you are having an issue with viewing material with a remote DVR, have you verified the same recordings view OK locally to that DVR to rule out the recordings themselves? Just to be complete you should probably check the signals (via the above) on both STBs.

Since it sounds like there is only a single 3-way splitter between the two STBs and router this helps narrow down potential sources of problems.

Thanks.

OK, so I did what you said and the SNR level is 'Good' however the SNR value is 40 DB. That's good, yes? That's under channel information. Under OOB Data, the SNR value is 29 DB.
sneakaround
join:2001-06-19
Staten Island, NY

sneakaround to bushleaguer

Member

to bushleaguer
»www.cabletronix.com/pdf/ ··· ries.pdf

Like a splitter but the loss is not even across the ports. So at the first splitter, IN from the ONT, OUT to the rest of the network and TAP to the first TV, second splitter IN from first tap, OUT to three port splitter and TAP to second TV. A balanced instead of an unbalanced 3-port splitter wouldn't hurt either.
bushleaguer
join:2007-01-22
Gillette, NJ

bushleaguer

Member

said by sneakaround:

»www.cabletronix.com/pdf/ ··· ries.pdf

Like a splitter but the loss is not even across the ports. So at the first splitter, IN from the ONT, OUT to the rest of the network and TAP to the first TV, second splitter IN from first tap, OUT to three port splitter and TAP to second TV. A balanced instead of an unbalanced 3-port splitter wouldn't hurt either.

Ah, I see.....thank you.

My splitters are just marked 'IN' and 'Out'

As far as balanced vs unbalanced, does that mean I should get a 4-way splitter instead of a 3-way and leave the "empty" connection be?
Shady Bimmer
Premium Member
join:2001-12-03

Shady Bimmer to bushleaguer

Premium Member

to bushleaguer
said by bushleaguer:

OK, so I did what you said and the SNR level is 'Good' however the SNR value is 40 DB. That's good, yes? That's under channel information. Under OOB Data, the SNR value is 29 DB.

Those are both good. Yes, the OOB SNR is normally lower than the channel ("in band") SNR.

Do both STBs show roughly the same?

These are shown when you are tuned to the channel you had a problem with?

Are the short term error counts zero? If there are any errors then you will see those (pixelization is the result of errors)
bushleaguer
join:2007-01-22
Gillette, NJ

bushleaguer

Member

Yes, both STBs show roughly the same and I had the problem channel tuned in when I was doing the test.

Yes, the short term error counts are zero.

joelny
@mycingular.net

joelny

Anon

Good place for splitters. »www.extreme-broadband.co ··· hop.html
bushleaguer
join:2007-01-22
Gillette, NJ

bushleaguer

Member

said by joelny :

Good place for splitters. »www.extreme-broadband.co ··· hop.html

Thanks for the tip....I'll keep it bookmarked for future use.

I decided to order some splitters from monoprice (they had a range of 5mhz - 2400mhz which I hope will function properly) and will see how it goes. If that fails, then I guess I'll bite the bullet and spend hundreds of dollars on a Verizon tech.
What's ironic is that what I was speaking to tech support they were casting doubt on the way the splitters and cable lines were set up.....Verizon was the one who installed them.
crgauth
join:2004-05-18
Glen Burnie, MD

crgauth

Member

Did you ever get in to the menu to see what the speed between nodes is?
SNR just measures the receive at a particular node.
Really need to look at the speed between nodes.
Might we worthwhile to do it before and after splitter replacement.

nascar
join:2000-02-28
Verona, NJ

nascar to bushleaguer

Member

to bushleaguer
I have used these guys. Great pricing and fast delivery.

»www.smarthome.com/7810C2 ··· -/p.aspx

K3SGM
- -... ...- -
Premium Member
join:2006-01-17
Columbia, PA

K3SGM

Premium Member

The Smarthome and Monoprice splitters are all DC power passing, which is for satellite use, and generally not cableTV.

Instead of a conventional capacitively coupled splitter that won't pass power surges between connected devices, the power passing splitters leave you open to destructive surges that can damage boxes, routers, TV sets, etc....

DC or Power passing is used for satellite dishes because the coax has to supply voltage to power the LNBF on the dish, it serves no practical purpose for cable/Fios.

nascar
join:2000-02-28
Verona, NJ

nascar to bushleaguer

Member

to bushleaguer
Still doesn't change the fact that they work just fine
dfwguy
join:2013-10-24

1 recommendation

dfwguy

Member

Some do, some don't. I borrowed a spectrum analyzer several years ago and ran some tests on different splitters, and found that a lot that were designed for satellite use really suck below 900MHz. Satellite service typically uses 950-2150MHz for the IF, so splitters really only care about that range. I don't have the numbers or data anymore since it was a long time ago, but I'd stick with something rated for 1GHz for broadcast/cable/FiOS use. And not power passing. Go search eBay for Regal or Antronix or something.
Betamax76
join:2008-10-16
Canonsburg, PA

Betamax76 to bushleaguer

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to bushleaguer
These MCR splitters on ebay are rated up to 1200 MHz (ideal for Moca 1.0 and Moca 1.1) and do not pass DC.
»www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-Bro ··· 371e4f08

Though 1 GHz rated splitters from Antronix and PDI will also work for Moca 1.0 and Moca 1.1 devices, the new Moca 2.0 standard will require new splitters rated up to 1650 MHz which Verizon has been deploying in new installations for the last year.
dfwguy
join:2013-10-24

dfwguy

Member

Someone will need to do actual independent testing on splitters to see how they really perform on MoCA 2.0. I have a feeling that it will be a lot like HDMI cables. For those not familiar with it, HDMI 1.0 through 1.3 all use the exact same cables, with the only difference being what standard they're tested against (and how much they charge for them). It's quite possible that high quality "1GHz" splitters will outperform crappy splitters that are supposedly rated for 1650MHz.
bushleaguer
join:2007-01-22
Gillette, NJ

bushleaguer to Betamax76

Member

to Betamax76
said by Betamax76:

These MCR splitters on ebay are rated up to 1200 MHz (ideal for Moca 1.0 and Moca 1.1) and do not pass DC.
»www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-Bro ··· 371e4f08

Though 1 GHz rated splitters from Antronix and PDI will also work for Moca 1.0 and Moca 1.1 devices, the new Moca 2.0 standard will require new splitters rated up to 1650 MHz which Verizon has been deploying in new installations for the last year.

First, thanks to everyone for the help.

I cancelled my monoprice order and found these on Amazon....I liked seeing "used in FIOS installations" in the description and I don't want to waste money on something that might not work (or would probably be shrugged off by Verizon).

Hopefully this does.....my plumber charged less per hour to do a major repair on my boiler than Verizon will to swap out splitters and coaxial lines.

bluepoint
join:2001-03-24

bluepoint to Betamax76

Member

to Betamax76
said by Betamax76:

Though 1 GHz rated splitters from Antronix and PDI will also work for Moca 1.0 and Moca 1.1 devices, the new Moca 2.0 standard will require new splitters rated up to 1650 MHz which Verizon has been deploying in new installations for the last year.

I don't know but my Rev I router(MOCA 1.1) operates @1150MHz, so any 1GHz rated splitters might not work for Moca 1.1 systems.
Betamax76
join:2008-10-16
Canonsburg, PA

Betamax76

Member

said by bluepoint:

I don't know but my Rev I router(MOCA 1.1) operates @1150MHz, so any 1GHz rated splitters might not work for Moca 1.1 systems.

Moca 1.0 also operated at 1150 MHz so there really is no change as far as the highest frequency. Splitters rated at 1 GHz have a gradual roll-off and would lose only a few db in signal strength compared to higher rated frequency splitters. Verizon was installing PDI splitters rated to 1 GHz until 2012. When Moca 2.0 was announced, they switched to splitters rated to 1675 MHz.

mushmouth
join:2001-12-13
Earth

1 recommendation

mushmouth

Member

Sign up for wire maintenance plan for 7.99 a mos call it in, they'll take care of your issue, cancel when you know it's fixed.
Techs have more wiggle room and can justify their time isolating,repairing if the cust has the plan.
Just remember if he goes out of his way like crawling through your nasty crawl space or on your roof to fix some dodgy wiring buy him lunch.