W.O.W. → Columbus, OH routing issues

I've had these redundant hops for a few weeks now...I figured they would start going away. I was supposed to have a tech out a week ago but they showed up late and I had to leave. Anyone else had this issue or know how to fix it?

Take note the arrows are pointing to duplicate hops that happen every trace.

1 1 ms 1 ms 1 ms 192.168.0.1
2 * * * Request timed out.
3 13 ms 14 ms 24 ms 76-73-166-85.knology.net [76.73.166.85]
4 49 ms 14 ms 14 ms 76-73-167-210.knology.net [76.73.167.210]
5 18 ms 17 ms 14 ms 76-73-167-89.knology.net [76.73.167.89] -----
6 24 ms 28 ms 15 ms 76-73-167-66.knology.net [76.73.167.66] =======
7 18 ms 17 ms 16 ms 76-73-167-78.knology.net [76.73.167.78]
8 16 ms 18 ms 15 ms 76-73-168-65.knology.net [76.73.168.65] \\\\\\\
9 22 ms 26 ms 33 ms 76-73-168-70.knology.net [76.73.168.70]
10 23 ms 24 ms 36 ms 76-73-165-66.knology.net [76.73.165.66] =======
11 33 ms 31 ms 31 ms 76-73-164-89.knology.net [76.73.164.89] -----
12 34 ms 36 ms 33 ms 76-73-164-65.knology.net [76.73.164.65] \\\\\\
13 53 ms 53 ms 54 ms 76-73-164-178.knology.net [76.73.164.178]
14 53 ms 144 ms 52 ms 209-8-108-97.static.pccwglobal.net [209.8.108.97
]
15 55 ms 57 ms 85 ms xe-5-0-6.ar1.ord1.us.nlayer.net [69.31.111.197]

16 56 ms 53 ms 53 ms ae1-40g.cr1.ord1.us.nlayer.net [69.31.111.133]
17 76 ms 76 ms 71 ms xe-3-3-0.cr1.dfw1.us.nlayer.net [69.22.142.5]
18 81 ms 93 ms 97 ms 69.31.54.194
19 71 ms 72 ms 74 ms quadranet-colocrossing.quadranet.com [96.44.148.
54]
20 79 ms 81 ms 78 ms host.colocrossing.com [206.217.134.98]
21 75 ms 73 ms 72 ms host.colocrossing.com [206.217.142.170]

___________________________________________________

Tracing route to speedtest.wowway.com [24.96.35.75]
over a maximum of 30 hops:

1 1 ms 1 ms 1 ms 192.168.0.1
2 * * * Request timed out.
3 15 ms 9 ms 9 ms 76-73-166-85.knology.net [76.73.166.85]
4 12 ms 26 ms 11 ms 76-73-167-210.knology.net [76.73.167.210]
5 12 ms 12 ms 13 ms 76-73-167-89.knology.net [76.73.167.89]
6 14 ms 12 ms 11 ms 76-73-167-66.knology.net [76.73.167.66]
7 17 ms 17 ms 16 ms 76-73-167-78.knology.net [76.73.167.78]
8 18 ms 17 ms 18 ms 76-73-168-65.knology.net [76.73.168.65]
9 55 ms 24 ms 81 ms 76-73-168-70.knology.net [76.73.168.70]
10 23 ms 22 ms 20 ms 76-73-165-66.knology.net [76.73.165.66]
11 29 ms 30 ms 44 ms 76-73-164-89.knology.net [76.73.164.89]
12 33 ms 35 ms 34 ms 76-73-164-65.knology.net [76.73.164.65]
13 32 ms 31 ms 32 ms 76-73-164-178.knology.net [76.73.164.178]
14 84 ms 86 ms 106 ms user-69-73-5-30.knology.net [69.73.5.30]
15 65 ms 91 ms 77 ms 76.73.147.238
16 77 ms 64 ms 62 ms 24.96.35.75

I too am in Westerville.

Tracing route to host.colocrossing.com [206.217.142.170]
over a maximum of 30 hops:

1 3 ms 3 ms 3 ms (redacted) (redacted)
2 * * * Request timed out.
3 13 ms 12 ms 12 ms 10.35.25.10
4 13 ms 13 ms 13 ms 10.35.11.29
5 14 ms 16 ms 13 ms xe-5-1-0.bar1.Cincinnati1.Level3.net [4.59.40.17]
6 24 ms 23 ms 23 ms ae-10-10.ebr2.Chicago1.Level3.net [4.69.136.214]
7 21 ms 21 ms 21 ms ae-5-5.ebr2.Chicago2.Level3.net [4.69.140.194]
8 23 ms 22 ms 23 ms ae-2-52.edge3.Chicago3.Level3.net [4.69.138.168]
9 21 ms 24 ms 25 ms ae10.chi11.ip4.tinet.net [199.229.229.133]
10 49 ms 47 ms 57 ms xe-2-0-0.dal33.ip4.tinet.net [89.149.185.85]
11 49 ms 71 ms 48 ms gtt-gw.ip4.tinet.net [173.241.130.138]
12 57 ms 49 ms 49 ms 69.31.54.194
13 49 ms 50 ms 46 ms quadranet-colocrossing.quadranet.com [96.44.148.54]
14 49 ms 49 ms 49 ms host.colocrossing.com [206.217.134.98]
15 45 ms 50 ms 48 ms host.colocrossing.com [206.217.142.170]

Trace complete.

Tracing route to speedtest.wowway.com [24.96.35.75]
over a maximum of 30 hops:

1 3 ms 3 ms 3 ms (redacted) (redacted)
2 * * * Request timed out.
3 12 ms 12 ms 13 ms 10.35.25.10
4 13 ms 23 ms 12 ms 10.35.11.29
5 41 ms 40 ms 40 ms 206.126.236.136
6 55 ms 54 ms 56 ms user-24-96-153-13.knology.net [24.96.153.13]
7 57 ms 56 ms 57 ms user-24-96-35-33.knology.net [24.96.35.33]
8 55 ms 124 ms 57 ms static-24-96-110-161.knology.net [24.96.110.161]
9 55 ms 54 ms 53 ms 24.96.35.75

Trace complete.

In Pickerington with the same trashy routing. From another thread it seems this is the way WOW wants it to be because they moved their routing to Knology's newer equipment. But the result is bad. The switch has nearly doubled my ping to Microsoft's Azure servers. Used to be able to hit 2-3 US data centers at less than 50ms now I never have more than 2 at less than 100 and they're usually in the 70's. Couple that with the failure of my 2nd Ultra gateway in less than 3 months and I'm right on the edge of leaving WOW.

Here's the thread where it was first discussed... »new routing in Chicago Area..

Well, I've started to run into some routing strangeness in Gahanna also. Looks like I do not have to route at all to www.pingplotter.com (216.92.151.75). I'll be opening a ticket tomorrow and see how they respond/address the issue.

The real bummer is that it has substantially increased the path/latency in the path for my vpn to work, and the throughput has dropped noticeably.

East side near Bexley.
1 192.168.1.1 (192.168.1.1) 1.202 ms 0.581 ms 0.540 ms
2 d118-75-1-32.try.wideopenwest.com (75.118.32.1) 35.221 ms 14.770 ms 30.086 ms
3 dynamic-76-73-172-209.knology.net (76.73.172.209) 11.678 ms 9.345 ms 8.780 ms
4 76-73-167-89.knology.net (76.73.167.89) 10.533 ms 11.990 ms 9.825 ms
5 76-73-167-66.knology.net (76.73.167.66) 10.697 ms 11.552 ms 14.144 ms
6 76-73-167-78.knology.net (76.73.167.78) 19.057 ms 14.898 ms 16.983 ms
7 76-73-168-65.knology.net (76.73.168.65) 31.224 ms 24.626 ms 15.683 ms
8 76-73-168-70.knology.net (76.73.168.70) 21.142 ms 21.776 ms 24.838 ms
9 76-73-165-66.knology.net (76.73.165.66) 25.382 ms 20.666 ms 21.881 ms
10 76-73-164-89.knology.net (76.73.164.89) 30.146 ms 28.066 ms 26.791 ms
11 76-73-164-65.knology.net (76.73.164.65) 30.115 ms 31.767 ms 29.042 ms
12 76-73-164-178.knology.net (76.73.164.178) 37.779 ms 40.001 ms 38.178 ms
13 209-8-108-97.static.pccwglobal.net (209.8.108.97) 24.560 ms 27.671 ms 29.174 ms
14 xe-5-0-6.ar1.ord1.us.nlayer.net (69.31.111.197) 27.405 ms 30.915 ms 26.901 ms
15 ae1-40g.cr1.ord1.us.nlayer.net (69.31.111.133) 25.909 ms 25.461 ms 25.349 ms
16 xe-3-3-0.cr1.dfw1.us.nlayer.net (69.22.142.5) 46.529 ms 49.412 ms 47.262 ms
17 69.31.54.194 (69.31.54.194) 48.886 ms 52.525 ms 50.462 ms
18 quadranet-colocrossing.quadranet.com (96.44.148.54) 45.669 ms 47.404 ms 47.490 ms
19 host.colocrossing.com (206.217.134.98) 51.376 ms 46.593 ms 45.284 ms
20 host.colocrossing.com (206.217.142.170) 47.343 ms 47.397 ms 45.272 ms

1 192.168.1.1 (192.168.1.1) 0.959 ms 0.636 ms 0.541 ms
2 d118-75-1-32.try.wideopenwest.com (75.118.32.1) 38.118 ms 27.215 ms 33.608 ms
3 dynamic-76-73-172-209.knology.net (76.73.172.209) 11.245 ms 9.383 ms 10.023 ms
4 76-73-167-89.knology.net (76.73.167.89) 9.423 ms 10.223 ms 9.239 ms
5 76-73-167-66.knology.net (76.73.167.66) 9.426 ms 9.920 ms 17.969 ms
6 76-73-167-78.knology.net (76.73.167.78) 14.168 ms 16.047 ms 24.008 ms
7 76-73-168-65.knology.net (76.73.168.65) 24.778 ms 18.008 ms 15.577 ms
8 76-73-168-70.knology.net (76.73.168.70) 21.204 ms 22.867 ms 25.029 ms
9 76-73-165-66.knology.net (76.73.165.66) 25.690 ms 21.993 ms 18.808 ms
10 76-73-164-89.knology.net (76.73.164.89) 27.658 ms 28.557 ms 27.787 ms
11 76-73-164-65.knology.net (76.73.164.65) 31.197 ms 38.703 ms 32.310 ms
12 76-73-164-178.knology.net (76.73.164.178) 39.356 ms 39.072 ms 43.531 ms
13 user-69-73-5-30.knology.net (69.73.5.30) 73.135 ms 75.887 ms 70.966 ms
14 76.73.147.238 (76.73.147.238) 59.705 ms 67.029 ms 63.143 ms
15 24.96.35.75 (24.96.35.75) 64.244 ms 63.034 ms 66.132 ms

I see the other post and it seems this is supposed to be an "upgrade". I am getting worst latency and occasional packet loss since this update. I'm curious how much performance i'm losing simply because the path to server gets traced TWICE through knology servers.

Reynoldsburg reporting in......

Tracing route to speedtest.wowway.com [24.96.35.75]
over a maximum of 30 hops:

1 * * * Request timed out.
2 9 ms 11 ms 11 ms 76-73-166-85.knology.net [76.73.166.85]
3 33 ms 14 ms 10 ms 76-73-167-210.knology.net [76.73.167.210]
4 10 ms 11 ms 38 ms 76-73-167-89.knology.net [76.73.167.89]
5 15 ms 11 ms 41 ms 76-73-167-66.knology.net [76.73.167.66]
6 96 ms 17 ms 16 ms 76-73-167-78.knology.net [76.73.167.78]
7 18 ms 14 ms 30 ms 76-73-168-65.knology.net [76.73.168.65]
8 24 ms 23 ms 23 ms 76-73-168-70.knology.net [76.73.168.70]
9 20 ms 21 ms 22 ms 76-73-165-66.knology.net [76.73.165.66]
10 49 ms 28 ms 27 ms 76-73-164-89.knology.net [76.73.164.89]
11 72 ms 34 ms 27 ms 76-73-164-65.knology.net [76.73.164.65]
12 43 ms 43 ms 60 ms 76-73-164-178.knology.net [76.73.164.178]
13 83 ms 98 ms 71 ms user-69-73-5-30.knology.net [69.73.5.30]
14 82 ms 69 ms 63 ms 76.73.147.238
15 64 ms 332 ms 86 ms 24.96.35.75

Trace complete.

Yep, like I said it basically doubled my ping to MS Azure servers. And I too had some recent packet loss issues. I don't know why this is seen as an upgrade but that's what Dan said. Need to see another response from him in here further explaining it because it's pretty annoying.

Those are not duplicated hops. The third octet is different in all of your hops you listed as duplicate.

Thank you for bringing that to everyones attention.
Now is there a reason there are so many hops to get outside of WOWs network? On TWC it takes me 7 hops including my router to get outside of TWC/RRs network. 12 seems like a little much....

Yeah, 12 hops vs. 6 (taking out your router). And, would you look at that, twice as many hops = twice as much latency.

Any logical reasoning for this, Dan? Is this temporary as stuff is moved from one set of equipment to another?

Will probably be setting up with a new ISP this week unless it's something temporary.

He never specifically listed any hops as duplicated, just a general statement that it seems like it took forever to get outside WOW's network, and that it seemed to be duplicated.

Realistically it isn't twice as much latency since most of the routers are probably physically close and none of them seem to have a huge increase in latency between the hops but still it seems like a lot of hops and seems like a lot of points for failure.

All I know is my latency has doubled since this routing appeared. To speedtest.net servers (just noticed that over the weekend), Azure servers, anything where I'm used to seeing a number, it's doubled.

The difference with WOW is that they're exposing the hops instead of hiding them in MPLS/VPLS?

He said that to take note of the arrows pointing to duplicate hops.

In his example 76.73.168.65 and 76.73.164.65 are not duplicates, as the third octet is different as Dan pointed out.

I understand the need for lower latency for such things as VoIP and online gaming, but to be upset over 50ms when all you're doing is pushing data to the cloud is a bit much.

Looks like those changes made it to the Lewis Center area last night. Now going through all of the Knology hops and no more RFC1918 space (visible) in the trace. Still my first hop outside of my network is not able to be pinged with is annoying only because of the delay it causes.
So far I am not had a large increase in delay. Compared to my ping times to a server in Chicago yesterday my ping times have gone up by only about 3-4ms. No big deal...

If you're talking about me I'm not pushing data to the cloud. Titanfall uses Microsoft's Azure servers as dedicated servers. My ping to them used to be in the 30's (East US in Virginia and North Central US in Chicago) or 40's-50's (West US in Cali). Now I get 60's and 70's to East US or North Central US at best and 90's if not over 100 for West US. I used to be able to ping 90-100 to the North Europe (Dublin, Ireland) Azure servers. I've seen 80's on the East US/North Central US servers since I've been playing Titanfall. I'm usually 2 bars out of 5 for connection quality in game.

So, yeah, you said you understand it for online gaming and there it is.

Here are my current pings to Azure servers...

East USA (Virginia) 71 ms
North Central USA (Chicago, IL) 82 ms
West USA (California) 121 ms
North Europe (Dublin, Ireland) 144 ms

From this site... »azureping.info/

The very best I could get over several tests was 69ms to East US. I wish I had screenshots of my tests prior to this routing but unfortunately I don't since I didn't really have reason to fear some kind of random change that would double my latency.

What does your trace look like boopin?
I just did the azure ping and got 49ms to East USA, 47ms to North Central USA, 93ms to West USA and 145ms to North Europe.

Tracing route to speedtest.wowway.com [24.96.35.75]
over a maximum of 30 hops:

1 1 ms 1 ms 1 ms DD-WRT [192.168.1.1]
2 * * * Request timed out.
3 18 ms 15 ms 25 ms 76-73-166-113.knology.net [76.73.166.113]
4 28 ms 12 ms 8 ms 76-73-167-222.knology.net [76.73.167.222]
5 54 ms 11 ms 12 ms 76-73-167-89.knology.net [76.73.167.89]
6 9 ms 12 ms 9 ms 76-73-167-66.knology.net [76.73.167.66]
7 16 ms 17 ms 16 ms 76-73-167-78.knology.net [76.73.167.78]
8 24 ms 16 ms 14 ms 76-73-168-65.knology.net [76.73.168.65]
9 20 ms 21 ms 21 ms 76-73-168-70.knology.net [76.73.168.70]
10 18 ms 28 ms 29 ms 76-73-165-66.knology.net [76.73.165.66]
11 28 ms 27 ms 27 ms 76-73-164-89.knology.net [76.73.164.89]
12 30 ms 31 ms 33 ms 76-73-164-65.knology.net [76.73.164.65]
13 40 ms 40 ms 39 ms 76-73-164-178.knology.net [76.73.164.178]
14 64 ms 84 ms 62 ms user-69-73-5-30.knology.net [69.73.5.30]
15 62 ms 64 ms 101 ms 76.73.147.238
16 66 ms 59 ms 60 ms 24.96.35.75

Trace complete.

Very similar to mine. Not sure what would be affecting performance to Azure servers.
traceroute speedtest.wowway.com
traceroute to speedtest.wowway.com (24.96.35.75), 64 hops max, 52 byte packets
1 vrrp-vlan975.net.cinemiketheatres.com (172.31.10.1) 1.042 ms 0.713 ms 0.877 ms
2 isp-edge-wow-eth23.net.cinemiketheatres.com (172.24.0.11) 0.876 ms 0.767 ms 0.771 ms
3 * * *
4 dynamic-76-73-172-253.knology.net (76.73.172.253) 28.751 ms 11.794 ms 11.993 ms
5 76-73-167-204.knology.net (76.73.167.204) 13.340 ms 11.888 ms 12.404 ms
6 76-73-167-78.knology.net (76.73.167.78) 16.987 ms 17.836 ms 22.158 ms
7 76-73-168-65.knology.net (76.73.168.65) 14.908 ms 17.883 ms 15.411 ms
8 76-73-168-70.knology.net (76.73.168.70) 21.600 ms 20.528 ms 34.443 ms
9 76-73-165-66.knology.net (76.73.165.66) 23.198 ms 20.288 ms 73.881 ms
10 76-73-164-89.knology.net (76.73.164.89) 33.419 ms 33.299 ms 46.486 ms
11 76-73-164-65.knology.net (76.73.164.65) 35.671 ms 34.678 ms 36.736 ms
12 76-73-164-178.knology.net (76.73.164.178) 38.865 ms 35.326 ms 32.957 ms
13 user-69-73-5-30.knology.net (69.73.5.30) 65.010 ms 64.182 ms 67.445 ms
14 76.73.147.238 (76.73.147.238) 64.735 ms 67.372 ms 67.602 ms
15 24.96.35.75 (24.96.35.75) 64.641 ms !Z 65.014 ms !Z 64.764 ms !Z

I play War Thunder online and I generally get anywhere from 30-50ms ping times on their East and West servers here in the US.

I got 75 East USA (Virginia), 88 North Central USA (Chicago, IL), 128 West USA (California), 149 North Europe (Dublin, Ireland) and 317 East Asia (Hong Kong, China), all while downloading LibreOffice at the same time.

Traceroute while downloading LibreOffice on another machine on my home network.

traceroute to speedtest.wowway.com (24.96.35.75), 64 hops max, 52 byte packets
1 dd-wrt (192.168.11.1) 1.285 ms 0.961 ms 0.848 ms
2 * * *
3 208.117.98.13 (208.117.98.13) 13.550 ms 11.107 ms 9.352 ms
4 static-46.64-179-177.knology.net (64.179.177.46) 11.934 ms 11.170 ms 10.971 ms
5 static-41.64-179-177.knology.net (64.179.177.41) 14.861 ms 10.508 ms 11.415 ms
6 static-37.64-179-177.knology.net (64.179.177.37) 8.736 ms 9.377 ms 7.864 ms
7 static-128.208-117-98.knology.net (208.117.98.128) 8.879 ms 19.451 ms 23.642 ms
8 user-69-73-5-129.knology.net (69.73.5.129) 16.327 ms 15.467 ms 16.080 ms
9 user-69-73-5-33.knology.net (69.73.5.33) 40.573 ms 44.573 ms 39.922 ms
10 17.5.124.24.cm.sunflower.com (24.124.5.17) 39.809 ms 39.909 ms 40.096 ms
11 cr01.atl.xe-4-2-0.knology.net (24.214.0.129) 67.649 ms 68.031 ms 67.830 ms
12 24.96.35.75 (24.96.35.75) 68.215 ms 67.254 ms 73.193 ms

Azure Speed Test realtime...

»azurespeedtest.azurewebs ··· tes.net/

I play counter strike global offensive typically...pings have doubled for roughly a month now. probably switching isp's soon...growing tired of this. This is a hobby I actually make money to play and it sucks to be at a disadvantage...and sucks more I referred someone to WoW 2 months before this happened.

I am also in Pickerington and have been running into the same issues. With Titanfall I am seeing 65ms at the lowest, and there are days when the lowest is above 80. A buddy of mine has TWC in Columbus and says he never sees above 40ms.

Coupled with the WOW price jumps I am very close to switching to TWC, as much as that pains me.

Yeah, there are 2 things that have me hesitant about switching to TWC here in Pickerington. I had Insight here before and it was awful and I know it's the same lines/equipment now just as TWC. And the whole Comcast thing. But I'm having more issues tonight with Titanfall (ie. over 1,700ms ping to East US server at one point) that have me pretty set on getting the switch set up this weekend.

i was playing this morning, pings were 20-40ms (north midwest datacenter, from detroit area)

i don't know how accurate the azureping.info site is and the in-game latency seems to go up during busy times (but not network latency)