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Aym
@rylinkservices.net

Aym

Anon

[Embarq] Bypass CenturyLink YouTube throttling?

This just started a few days ago, I can stream videos from all the other sites just fine, but any YouTube videos are slowing to a crawl. I'm assuming they started throttling YouTube traffic after the recent court ruling that allowed it. But is there anything I can do to speed up the YouTube videos? Thanks.

NormanS
I gave her time to steal my mind away
MVM
join:2001-02-14
San Jose, CA
TP-Link TD-8616
Asus RT-AC66U B1
Netgear FR114P

NormanS

MVM

said by Aym :

I'm assuming they started throttling YouTube traffic after the recent court ruling that allowed it.

That wasn't what that court ruling was about. How do the other streaming sites perform? I can reliably stream the troublesome Netflix at 5800 kb/s (1080p), as well Amazon and Hulu; but YouYube occasionally gives me fits.

Full disclosure: My ISP is Sonic.net, which participates in Netflix Open Connect.

Aym
@rylinkservices.net

Aym

Anon

I'm specifically talking about CenturyLink, it sounds like your ISP is not throttling your YouTube. I can stream videos from other sites just fine (IGN, GameSpot) and my speeds are fine according to Speedtest.net. But my YouTube speed is at about 30k/s. If anyone else who are using CenturyLink and was able to bypass it's YouTube throttling, please help. Thanks.

Hazy Arc
join:2006-04-10
Greenwood, SC

Hazy Arc to Aym

Member

to Aym
I have the same symptoms and can bypass the congestion by VPN'ing to my work network and watching YouTube there.

I'm not so sure it's Centurylink throttling more than it's your traffic being routed around congested areas once on the VPN.

»VPNs Seem to Help Many Broadband Users' YouTube, Netflix Issues

I have no problems with YouTube during the day, but evening/night is atrocious.
Crusty
join:2008-11-11
Sanger, TX

Crusty to NormanS

Member

to NormanS
said by NormanS:

I can reliably stream the troublesome Netflix at 5800 kb/s (1080p), as well Amazon and Hulu; but YouYube occasionally gives me fits.

I'm quite the opposite...I can stream all providers except for Netflix just fine.

NormanS
I gave her time to steal my mind away
MVM
join:2001-02-14
San Jose, CA
TP-Link TD-8616
Asus RT-AC66U B1
Netgear FR114P

NormanS to Aym

MVM

to Aym
said by Aym :

I'm specifically talking about CenturyLink, it sounds like your ISP is not throttling your YouTube.

A.) On a good night I can stream YouTube at 1080p without buffering.
B.) On a bad night I can't stream YouTube at 720p without buffering.
C.) Having a slow YouTube streaming session is not, prima facie evidence of ISP throttling.

YouTube is notorious for streaming problems across ISPs, which seems to indicate congested routes outside of the ISP's control. I have to wonder: I have IPv6 enabled, and Google (YouTube parent) seems to favor IPv6 routing when users are IPv6 capable.
firedrakes
join:2009-01-29
Arcadia, FL

firedrakes

Member

its simple youtube.
gapmn
join:2013-11-10
Saint Paul, MN

gapmn to Aym

Member

to Aym
Google "YouTube buffering" there are a few items to make sure are setup correctly.

Aym
@rylinkservices.net

Aym to NormanS

Anon

to NormanS
So last night I wasn't getting throttled, but tonight I'm getting throttled again. So I finally gave up and bought a VPN and it seems to have fixed the issue. So while it's not free it's the best I can do for now. I hope the other ISP in my area doesn't do this. Otherwise I guess I'll have to keep using VPN to watch YouTube.

NormanS
I gave her time to steal my mind away
MVM
join:2001-02-14
San Jose, CA
TP-Link TD-8616
Asus RT-AC66U B1
Netgear FR114P

NormanS

MVM

said by Aym :

So last night I wasn't getting throttled, but tonight I'm getting throttled again.

You do understand that "throttling" isn't something an ISP is going to turn off, or on according to some management whim? If they are going to throttle, they are going to keep it throttled.

BTW, YouTube buffering is worse for me lately, as well. Very likely a YouTube capacity issue.

Aym
@rylinkservices.net

Aym

Anon

You can call it whatever you want. Throttling, network management, QoS management, it's all the same to the end user. Tonight it's a Friday night, so probably more people are steaming video on the network. There are probably threshold that got exceeded so it triggered some automated throttling. But when I tried to stream the same video through the VPN it's fine. As of right now at 2am the streaming speed is fine again even without VPN. So I'm fairly sure it's Centurylink's issue not a YouTube issue.
brad152
join:2006-07-27
Chicago, IL

brad152

Member

As it's been stated here several times over it's a saturated link somewhere between centurylink and YouTube. I've had this issue with cox, time warner, comcast, insight, AT&T, and centurylink.

This is surely not something confined to centirylink, and there is no "threshold", it's like a water pipe... Only so much can get through at one time and you using a VPN causes it to be routed different than it's normal route

NormanS
I gave her time to steal my mind away
MVM
join:2001-02-14
San Jose, CA
TP-Link TD-8616
Asus RT-AC66U B1
Netgear FR114P

NormanS to Aym

MVM

to Aym
said by Aym :

You can call it whatever you want. Throttling, network management, QoS management, it's all the same to the end user.

Or not. I have never seen a packet capture which shows evidence of same. All I have ever seen is an anecdotal, "streaming sucks, so ISP is throttling". Probably an after effect from when Comcast got their balls busted for shaping BitTorrent traffic; but a DSLR member (funchords See Profile) provided hard, packet capture evidence as proof.

Aym
@rylinkservices.net

Aym

Anon

If there are overwhelming anecdotal evidence that Centurylink is slowing down streaming and if the same solution that solves throttling also works, I'm fairly sure it's throttling (or any other name you want to call it).

Also for the previous poster, I asked a friend to stream the same video that I was having issue with on his Cox HSI, he says it's fine for him. So Cox may be throttling in certain areas, but at least not in my area yet.
gapmn
join:2013-11-10
Saint Paul, MN

gapmn

Member

"We've also talked about how despite the claims that ISPs are intentionally throttling these streams, nobody has access to the full data in order to be able to indisputably prove it."

TAZ
join:2014-01-03
Tucson, AZ

TAZ to Aym

Member

to Aym
"YouTube (which has horrible performance on many ISPs) works on Cox but not CL" does not make a convincing case for throttling of YouTube.

Throttling = QoS policy applied to traffic to rate limit it
Congested link = queue is full and packets are dropped as a result due to lack of space in the queue, with no regard to what the packets are (and not withstanding any AQM)

But I suspect my post will be ignored just as you've ignored NormanS See Profile and brad152 See Profile.

Aym
@rylinkservices.net

Aym

Anon

I don't think it's the second situation you described because I can stream videos from other sites. If the network is congested, I shouldn't be able to stream IGN or Gamepost videos smoothly. But if it's a specific throttling rule set for a specific site, then it's inline with what I'm seeing. I'm getting throttled right now. YouTube defaulted to 144p because anything higher will choke, but when I connected the VPN I can stream the exact same video at 720p. Tell me that's not throttling (I'm sure you will, but I don't think I will be convinced).

NormanS
I gave her time to steal my mind away
MVM
join:2001-02-14
San Jose, CA
TP-Link TD-8616
Asus RT-AC66U B1
Netgear FR114P

NormanS

MVM

said by Aym :

I'm getting throttled right now. YouTube defaulted to 144p because anything higher will choke, but when I connected the VPN I can stream the exact same video at 720p. Tell me that's not throttling (I'm sure you will, but I don't think I will be convinced).

You know, when I see the sun rise over the mountains to the east, I just know that is all the evidence necessary to prove that the sun moves around the Earth. Convince me that I am wrong!

Aym
@rylinkservices.net

Aym

Anon

This is not astrophysics. The very large and very small in this world are just weird and does not adhere to common sense. We're made of 99% empty space and so are walls, would you run into a wall since two objects are made of mostly empty space? No (at least I hope not), because we can observe that when someone runs into a wall, they can't go through it.

I don't know all the specific QoS rules that Centurylink has, but I've observed throttling behavior, and the method that other people used to bypass the throttling works. So unless Centurylink can provide contrary evidence, I think it's more reasonable to believe that I'm getting throttled when watching YouTube.

NormanS
I gave her time to steal my mind away
MVM
join:2001-02-14
San Jose, CA
TP-Link TD-8616
Asus RT-AC66U B1
Netgear FR114P

2 edits

NormanS

MVM

said by Aym :

I don't know all the specific QoS rules that Centurylink has, but I've observed throttling behavior, and the method that other people used to bypass the throttling works. So unless Centurylink can provide contrary evidence, I think it's more reasonable to believe that I'm getting throttled when watching YouTube.

I wonder, am I being throttled? When I visit YouTube, and watch:

»www.youtube.com/watch?v= ··· =mh_lolz


I can sometimes play it at 1080p HD, but other times have to back it off to 480p to avoid buffering. Some additional observations:

• I can consistently play at 1080p through a 6in4 tunnel.
• I usually have to back off when accessing through a 6rd tunnel.
• My tunnels are not a VPN.
• 'netstat -aon' shows four concurrent connections to YouTube in the 6in4 tunnel, but only a single connection in the 6rd tunnel.

Trace routes follow.

6in4 tunnel (Hurricane Electric, plays 1080p with no buffering):
C:\util\dig>tracert 2607:f8b0:4005:800::1004
 
Tracing route to nuq05s01-in-x04.1e100.net [2607:f8b0:4005:800::1004]
over a maximum of 30 hops:
 
  1    <1 ms    <1 ms    <1 ms  2001:470:1f05:448::1
  2    32 ms    30 ms    31 ms  NKonaya-1.tunnel.tserv3.fmt2.ipv6.he.net [2001:470:1f04:448::1]
  3    26 ms    25 ms    27 ms  ge5-19.core1.fmt2.he.net [2001:470:0:45::1]
  4    26 ms    25 ms    26 ms  10ge1-1.core1.sjc2.he.net [2001:470:0:31::2]
  5    33 ms    26 ms    34 ms  2001:4860:1:1:0:1b1b:0:9
  6    36 ms    27 ms    26 ms  2001:4860::1:0:7ea
  7    27 ms    27 ms    33 ms  2001:4860:0:1::691
  8    26 ms    27 ms    26 ms  nuq05s01-in-x04.1e100.net [2607:f8b0:4005:800::1004]
 
Trace complete.
 

6rd tunnel (Sonic.net, buffers, sometimes badly, at 1080p):
C:\util\dig>tracert 2607:f8b0:4005:800::1003
 
Tracing route to nuq05s01-in-x03.1e100.net [2607:f8b0:4005:800::1003]
over a maximum of 30 hops:
 
  1     1 ms    <1 ms    <1 ms  2602:24a:de40:7d90::1
  2    26 ms    26 ms    26 ms  cust-gw.ipv6.sonic.net [2602:24b:8179:10::1]
  3    26 ms    26 ms    26 ms  0.ge-5-1-1.gw.200p-sf.sonic.net [2001:5a8:5:d::1]
  4    27 ms    25 ms    26 ms  0.as0.gw2.200p-sf.sonic.net [2001:5a8:5:8::2]
  5    27 ms    26 ms    26 ms  0.xe-6-0-0.gw.pao1.sonic.net [2001:5a8:5:6::1]
  6    27 ms    27 ms    27 ms  2001:550:2:3a::9:1
  7    28 ms    28 ms    27 ms  2001:550:4::48
  8    27 ms    27 ms    27 ms  2001:550:2:1f::46:2
  9    28 ms    27 ms    28 ms  2001:4860::1:0:7ea
 10    28 ms    28 ms    28 ms  2001:4860:0:1::691
 11    27 ms    28 ms    27 ms  nuq05s01-in-x03.1e100.net [2607:f8b0:4005:800::1003]
 
Trace complete.
 

The point is, your packets traverse a different route through a VPN vs. no VPN. If the no VPN route is congested, while the VPN is not, you will get better results through the VPN.

BTW, your comment on Astophysics is lame. And my point was that "observation" doesn't always convey knowledge. If you don't know what to look for, what appears obvious may actually be illusion. I might even get unlazy and kill IPv6 to have another look; and even follow up with Wireshark.

But you are not looking everywhere, and guessing.

P.S. My Sonic.net trace goes through Cogent, which has a notoriously bad reputation for "hot ports".
mikey63366
join:2010-09-28

mikey63366

Member

Im also having this issue.. cant even watch youtube or netflix without buffering... I never had this problem with charter. so I know it's not my system or setup...

NormanS
I gave her time to steal my mind away
MVM
join:2001-02-14
San Jose, CA

NormanS

MVM

It is routing. When I go Sonic.net>Cogent>YouTube I buffer; sometimes badly. When I go Sonic.net>Hurricane Electric>YouTube I don't.

Midniteoyl
join:2013-11-22
Knox, IN

Midniteoyl to Aym

Member

to Aym
Thinking its a CL problem too.. Not so much 'throttling' as in a 'problem' as I go back and forth on being able to watch youtube in 1080p to not being able to at all.. Last night, I could not watch at all..

scots
Are we there yet??
Premium Member
join:1999-12-06
Raleigh, NC

2 recommendations

scots to Aym

Premium Member

to Aym
said by Aym :

I don't think it's the second situation you described because I can stream videos from other sites. If the network is congested, I shouldn't be able to stream IGN or Gamepost videos smoothly. But if it's a specific throttling rule set for a specific site, then it's inline with what I'm seeing. I'm getting throttled right now. YouTube defaulted to 144p because anything higher will choke, but when I connected the VPN I can stream the exact same video at 720p. Tell me that's not throttling (I'm sure you will, but I don't think I will be convinced).

I'm on CenturyLink, and it's extremely rare for me to have issues with streaming YouTube - so I highly doubt they're doing throttling of YouTube. If they're going to throttle it, they're going to do it for all of their customers.

Just because you can stream from other sites with no problems doesn't mean CenturyLink is throttling YouTube. The other sites are most likely taking different routes that don't have network congestion. YouTube servers, Netflix servers, Hulu servers, IGN servers, Gamepost servers...they're all in different locations and all take different routes to get between you and them. Network congestion doesn't specifically mean that the congestion is occurring somewhere on CenturyLink's network. It can occur anywhere. It's highly possible for network congestion to be somewhere along the route that YouTube takes, and that none of the others services cross that part of the route that's experiencing congestion.

Fox McCloud
Crazy like a fox.
join:2006-07-23

Fox McCloud to Aym

Member

to Aym
Definitely becoming a problem for me, and only getting worse. What makes the issue even worse is the fact Google only lets you buffer parts of a video now. It used to be it would load the entire video to you; now it only loads a little bit of it, then stops until the video has progressed a bit (this doesn't really happen with lower quality vids; just 720 and 1080). I realize WHY that's a thing now, but ti makes watching a 720 or 1080 impossible without incessant buffering.

It wouldn't be nearly as bad if I could just let the thing load int he background and start watching it later.

If Sprint had unlimited 4G LTE...would be tempting to go with that; I get similar latency, roughly the same download (9ish megabits), but 5 megabits upload (as opposed to 830k).

Either way, hope the routing issues are resolved soon.....

lol.

xsbell
join:2008-12-22
Canada

xsbell to brad152

Member

to brad152
said by brad152:

As it's been stated here several times over it's a saturated link somewhere between centurylink and YouTube. I've had this issue with cox, time warner, comcast, insight, AT&T, and centurylink.

^This. Although it's actually the caching node that's congested.. but either way CL are the ones who have to contact Google to get it fixed!

»peering.google.com/about ··· ggc.html

Aym
@rylinkservices.net

Aym to mikey63366

Anon

to mikey63366
If you can spend a few dollars a month I recommend using a VPN when your YouTube is getting throttled. It really solved the issue for me.

NormanS
I gave her time to steal my mind away
MVM
join:2001-02-14
San Jose, CA

NormanS

MVM

said by Aym :

If you can spend a few dollars a month I recommend using a VPN when your YouTube is getting throttled.

My Hurricane Electric IPv6 tunnel works well with YouTube, and doesn't cost a cent.
xthepeoplesx
join:2013-10-21

xthepeoplesx to Aym

Member

to Aym
Have you tried switching your DNS servers over to use googles? 8.8.8.8 and 8.8.4.4? Sometimes that works depending on how they are "not throttling".
SemperFi78
join:2011-03-04
Marion, IA

SemperFi78 to Aym

Member

to Aym
said by Aym :

I'm specifically talking about CenturyLink, it sounds like your ISP is not throttling your YouTube. I can stream videos from other sites just fine (IGN, GameSpot) and my speeds are fine according to Speedtest.net. But my YouTube speed is at about 30k/s. If anyone else who are using CenturyLink and was able to bypass it's YouTube throttling, please help. Thanks.

I've never been able to stream Youtube on CL at 1080 without constant buffering. And with a 20Mbps connection I shouldn't be having buffering issues.