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OverrRyde
join:2007-04-10
Waterdown, ON

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Re: Missing Malaysian Airliner

I watched Daily Planet a couple of weeks back and they were showcasing a project underway that consisted of placing a gps device on a sharks fin. They then went on to show the movement of said shark throughout the Atlantic.

Now for the life of me, after this tragedy happened, cannot understand why we can track a freaking shark, underwater, in the ocean, showing points on a map, but we cannot do the same for million(s) dollar planes?

Has no one EVER thought of doing this before? What are the limits of GPS tracking in this scenario? I realize that planes use radar, but clearly this tragedy has shown how unreliable they are at tracking a vanished aircraft.
jaberi
join:2010-08-13

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British South American Airways disappears for 50 years

»en.wikipedia.org/wiki/19 ··· accident
........................................................................
....................................................................
speculation had included theories of international intrigue, intercorporate sabotage, and even abduction by aliens.

this was broadcasted on BBC last night.....just another 50 year mystery wile we speculate.
LastDon
join:2002-08-13

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so are they 100% that is the plane or just assuming still?
MaynardKrebs
We did it. We heaved Steve. Yipee.
Premium Member
join:2009-06-17

MaynardKrebs

Premium Member

Flash - they found it!!!

All those unaccounted for 'extras' coming off the spaceship in "Close Encounters of the 3rd Kind" -- parallel universes my friends.... definitely MH370 passengers.
Expand your moderator at work
Robrr
join:2008-04-19

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Re: Missing Malaysian Airliner

said by capdjq:

said by MaynardKrebs:

Malaysian Leader Says Flight 370 Ended in Ocean
»www.nytimes.com/2014/03/ ··· =article

The Conspiracy theories will live on until the actual debris is recovered.

Absolutely! I'll be the first to say I don't feel confident in the information presented thus far.

I do hope though for everyone involved that the information they have is accurate and that they do ultimately recover the plane.

dirtyjeffer0
Posers don't use avatars.
Premium Member
join:2002-02-21
London, ON

dirtyjeffer0

Premium Member

said by Robrr:

said by capdjq:

said by MaynardKrebs:

Malaysian Leader Says Flight 370 Ended in Ocean
»www.nytimes.com/2014/03/ ··· =article

The Conspiracy theories will live on until the actual debris is recovered.

Absolutely! I'll be the first to say I don't feel confident in the information presented thus far.

I do hope though for everyone involved that the information they have is accurate and that they do ultimately recover the plane.

one of the conspiracy theories is Malaysia (or whoever over there) shot it down, then realized they fucked up, so they gave false "search areas" initially to stall, while they dump some of the wreckage elsewhere (far away) to hide their screw up...i mean, normally you laugh at some of these ridiculous stories, but with all the weird things going on here, who knows.
mr weather
Premium Member
join:2002-02-27
Mississauga, ON

mr weather

Premium Member

The truthers won't stop even if physical evidence is found.
MaynardKrebs
We did it. We heaved Steve. Yipee.
Premium Member
join:2009-06-17

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Surface currents in that area of the ocean can hit 7Km/hour on a calm day (that's faster than the world record 100m freestyle swim).
The plane's been missing for about 2 weeks.
That means that light debris (if any) could be upwards of 2,400km from the impact point. This is probably why the search zone today has been adjusted more southerly of Perth, but still around 1,800Km off-shore.

My bet is the plane is never found.
jaberi
join:2010-08-13

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whatever became of the report from a remote island in the Maldives that a low flying "jumbo jet" woke the locals at 6.15 am on the same morning that the aircraft went missing?......... likely the nearest radar scanner was over the horizon...... the Malaysia minister said that the report was untrue, but offered no explanation.... i am not disputing that the aircraft is in the southern Indian Ocean, but wonder how this report fits in.

WhaleOilBee
What a long strange trip it's been
join:2011-08-02
Manotick, ON

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One of the most logical and rational possible explanations so far...

»www.wired.com/autopia/20 ··· al-fire/

But still just {educated} speculation that, like all other theories, will not be proven or debunked until the aircraft is found.

On a different but related topic - a reporter on CBC this morning tried to explain how the Doppler data from the Inmarsat IOR satellite is being used to pinpoint the location. He said something like... the signal from the satellite bounced off the aircraft.... {Face plant} . No, that's how the police radar uses Doppler. The real explanation can be found here.... »tmfassociates.com/blog/2 ··· clusion/
Read his earlier blogs this links to as well.
NCRGuy
join:2008-03-03
Ottawa, ON

1 recommendation

NCRGuy

Member

Actually, that theory has been pretty much debunked.

WhaleOilBee
What a long strange trip it's been
join:2011-08-02
Manotick, ON

WhaleOilBee

Member

So that leaves... Black hole, Bermuda Triangle, and 'Lost' TV show?

Do you have any link to the debunking - so I can pass it along to my source?
NCRGuy
join:2008-03-03
Ottawa, ON

NCRGuy

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It has been discussed quite thoroughly in this thread.

Gone
Premium Member
join:2011-01-24
Fort Erie, ON

Gone to WhaleOilBee

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said by WhaleOilBee:

So that leaves... Black hole, Bermuda Triangle, and 'Lost' TV show?

Suicide, maybe?

WhaleOilBee
What a long strange trip it's been
join:2011-08-02
Manotick, ON

WhaleOilBee

Member

said by Gone:

Suicide, maybe?

After going back to pg 1 of this thread and following a lot of the links, I've decided to take an aspirin, lie down, then just ignore everything until we get some irrefutable proof of the final end of that flight.

I'm still interested in the science though, especially the Inmarsat determination of the planes track --- based on Tx and Rx signal delta timings, and frequency shift. I've worked with their geo satellites over the past 10+ years and have encountered the RF signal 'time-of-flight', and Doppler compensation algorithms; but never have seen them applied to track something on the ground ( relative to the satellite altitude of ~36,000km, an aircraft is 'on the ground' ). Quite ingenious of those British chaps! I hope that their math is correct, and we can get a resolution soon.
jaberi
join:2010-08-13

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Aviation lawyer Michael Verna says:

»www.cbc.ca/player/News/W ··· 4586757/

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
---------------------------------------------------------

i read somewhere yesterday that each family will get $175K per victim...Michael handled the Air France claims and won a huge settlement.
jaberi

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What it's like to sail through the south Indian Ocean where flight 370 went down

»www.theglobeandmail.com/ ··· 7672530/

..............................................................
..............................................................

if these are the conditions they are searching in, it's no picnic.
MaynardKrebs
We did it. We heaved Steve. Yipee.
Premium Member
join:2009-06-17

MaynardKrebs

Premium Member

I know several guys who have sailed in that area on round-the-world sailing races. Seriously scary weather there much of the time. Waves routinely exceed 40'.

If the plane was tracking on a constant course, ie. 100 degrees E) then it's likely that the plane was either on autopilot or manually controlled. If the track was deviating from a constant course then it's either because it was manually handled or a 'ghost' plane not on autopilot but trimmed well enough that it was stable but subject to lateral winds.

Since the suspected track of the plane is on what appears to be a constant bearing, I think it was on autopilot/manually controlled as a result of a suicide run towards the South Pole (which of course the plane would never have reached given it's fuel load).
LastDon
join:2002-08-13

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What I don't get , is that they keep finding things via sats etc etc, and spot them with planes, but yet nothing has been recovered?

Everyday you hear new image finds items etc, but ?

koira
Hey Siri Walk Me
Premium Member
join:2004-02-16

koira

Premium Member

said by LastDon:

What I don't get , is that they keep finding things via sats etc etc, and spot them with planes, but yet nothing has been recovered?

Everyday you hear new image finds items etc, but ?

Back on the 10th a door liner and life jackets were spotted near Vietnam, never saw a follow up.

It's all being covered up.
PX Eliezer1
Premium Member
join:2013-03-10
Zubrowka USA

PX Eliezer1

Premium Member

said by koira:

Back on the 10th a door liner and life jackets were spotted near Vietnam, never saw a follow up.

It's all being covered up.

It's not being covered up.

The winds, waves, and currents are fierce, the weather is bad, the area is huge and far from land....

And there is already loads of material floating in the ocean, seeing an item from a distance means nothing.

As Justin says here:
»Re: Malaysian Airlines 777 goes missing
MaynardKrebs
We did it. We heaved Steve. Yipee.
Premium Member
join:2009-06-17

MaynardKrebs to LastDon

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What they're spotting is 2500km from land.
It takes time to get there in foul weather - at least 3 days if you know exactly where you're going and the weather is good.

When they get there by boat the waves are 20-60 feet high and the wind is blowing 40knots.
There are whitecaps, breaking waves, spray, and rain. It's hard to see anything in those conditions from the deck of a pitching ship.
And they're taking waves over the bow.

All that is a recipe for keeping people OFF the decks most of the time for safety reasons.

Then there's the wind & current spreading out anything that might be there.

So that's why nothing has been even identified by eyes at the scene, never mind recovered.
LastDon
join:2002-08-13

LastDon

Member

If you read the more recent news... even planes doing passes they have not spotted any of the objects from the images. It could be the waves etc but come on they would spotted something by now with so many credible images etc they keep referring to.
jaberi
join:2010-08-13

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i'm curious why has there been no mention of using a submarine?
jaberi

jaberi to LastDon

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said by LastDon:

If you read the more recent news... even planes doing passes they have not spotted any of the objects from the images. It could be the waves etc but come on they would spotted something by now with so many credible images etc they keep referring to.

did you see that sailing video link i posted, so imagine now what kind of conditions they are dealing with............they can spot this and that, but by the time they get to it the object sunk, or moved with the waves.
PX Eliezer1
Premium Member
join:2013-03-10
Zubrowka USA

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The surface of the water is a huge area as it is---but in 2-dimensions.

Submarines work with cubic volumes of water, that is, 3 dimensions, so even more enormous....

Imagine dealing with many, many thousands of cubic miles of water.

And it [is] done---you are right---but there has to be somewhere a little more specific to have as a search point. Things drift underwater just as on the surface....
jaberi
join:2010-08-13

jaberi

Member

said by jaberi:

Aviation lawyer Michael Verna says:

»www.cbc.ca/player/News/W ··· 4586757/

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
---------------------------------------------------------

i read somewhere yesterday that each family will get $175K per victim...Michael handled the Air France claims and won a huge settlement.

it did not take long before the lawsuits began:

As the search continued, a multi-million-dollar lawsuit was initiated in the United States against Malaysia Airlines and Boeing.

A firm representing families of the passengers filed a petition of discovery in Illinois, requiring the companies to produce evidence of possible flaws in the crashed Boeing 777.

"We believe that both defendants named are responsible for the disaster of Flight MH370," said Monica Kelly, the lead lawyer."
jaberi

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A United States black box detector being towed to the area is due to arrive on April 5, 28 days after the crash and just two days before the data recorder’s pinger is due to run out of battery life.

David Barry, an aviation specialist at Cranfield University, said the pings may continue for an extra 10 days but the signal would weaken. He said the effort to find the box could take years.

“Given the remoteness of the site and the depth of the water and the weather down there, the black box will be almost impossible to find,” he said. “It will then be a case of digging through the wreckage field, possibly for a couple of years.”

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i thought the US back box detector was already there since they said they were on the way last week...only to find out it won't even arrive until April 5th........everything is arriving at such a slow pace...but they are trying and it's not an easy search.
MaynardKrebs
We did it. We heaved Steve. Yipee.
Premium Member
join:2009-06-17

MaynardKrebs

Premium Member

The detector weighs about 75 pounds, but it has to be towed behind a survey/salvage ship. The Aussies have a ship they're giving for the purpose but the ship still has to sail to the search area from which port it's based in.

Say the ship is based in Sydney.... it has to sail the length of Australia (at maybe 15knots), then it has to sail another 2500Km to get to the search area. Maybe it also has to stop in Perth to get fuel, food, and additional personnel & equipment. That all takes time to. When does it get there? Do the math.