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battleop
join:2005-09-28
00000

battleop

Member

Can you trust these VPN providers?

How do you know you can trust them? What's to stop an MPAA/RIAA from running one and collecting information about your habits? Several people say they will just go with one over seas. Again what's to stop the MPAA/RIAA from setting up shop there. These are about as secure as the lists of IPs that supposedly list MPAA/RIAA computers that are tracking download via torrents.

The only thing these will do is hide what you are downloading but they don't hide the fact that you are downloading stuff form your ISP. You ISP isn't stupid and it wouldn't take a rocket scientist to figure out the VPN tunnel you're using is being used to download stuff.

graysonf
MVM
join:1999-07-16
Fort Lauderdale, FL

graysonf

MVM

said by battleop:

You ISP isn't stupid and it wouldn't take a rocket scientist to figure out the VPN tunnel you're using is being used to download stuff.

But seeing that you are using a VPN tunnel to download stuff doesn't tell them what that stuff is. Same thing when you use an SSL enabled web browser and surf to » web sites - and who doesn't do that?

Riusaki
join:2000-09-14
Space

Riusaki to battleop

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to battleop
Yes, we get. We should all stop using VPN's so all of our info can be collected. Like you we must sign away our lives and our first borns to our corporate overlords because when we don't they get very angry.

The MPAA/RIAA could log every packet of mine. I don't give a shit. How can they bring a case if they can't even tell what the packet says.

Stop with your moral high ground bullshit. My ISP can't do a fucking thing if they can't read it either.

"Oh no, we just saw an encrypted packet on this guys connection! Why doesn't anyone think of the children!!"

ITALIAN926
join:2003-08-16

ITALIAN926

Member

quote:
Stop with your moral high ground bullshit. My ISP can't do a fucking thing if they can't read it either.
Obviously you dont work in the entertainment industry. Moral High ground? How bout just being moral ? , and thats the end of it. IMO, youre no different than someone who goes into a store, and pockets an item. Yea yea yea, its been said a thousand times, copy, borrow, who gives a crap, youre not allowed to break the laws just because there are ways to circumvent them. If you were a mad scientist that creates an "invisible pill" do you have enough morals to avoid robbing a bank, undetected ?

Riusaki
join:2000-09-14
Space

2 recommendations

Riusaki

Member

Yes I don't work for the entertainment industry and I don't give a shit about them either.

Stop caring about people you don't know and don't know you.

I'll keep using my VPN and doing w/e the fudge I want with it. See how easy that was.
Expand your moderator at work
Riusaki

Riusaki to Anon

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to Anon

Re: Can you trust these VPN providers?

You must be replying to the wrong person.
Expand your moderator at work

battleop
join:2005-09-28
00000

battleop to Riusaki

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to Riusaki

Re: Can you trust these VPN providers?

"Stop with your moral high ground bullshit. My ISP can't do a fucking thing if they can't read it either."

No morals, just facts. You may think that a VPN hides what you are doing but it really does not, it only hides the content. If you see a connection from an end user to news.giganews.com on port 563 it does not take any real brain power to know what that connection is used for.

A lot of VPN users are using VPNs to circumvent network management or to try and hide their identity when the RIAA/MPAA tolls come knocking. There is no real way to verify if the VPN provider is going to protect you or not. The VPN providers provide a false since of security.
battleop

battleop to graysonf

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to graysonf
"But seeing that you are using a VPN tunnel to download stuff doesn't tell them what that stuff is"

They don't care about the content they just care about the traffic. Some people think they can use a VPN to circumvent the ISP's traffic management systems. It would be a trivial task to apply traffic management to these connections. I think the ISPs leave that alone for now because it's another can of worms they are not ready to open yet.

Riusaki
join:2000-09-14
Space

Riusaki to battleop

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to battleop
Assumption is not evidence. Here in the United States you need real proof someone is committing a crime. In your words anyone who happens to drive through a supposed bad neighborhood must be looking to score drugs. Nope, that is the only reason to go or drive through there so arrest anyone who comes through.

blackice
join:2014-01-02
Pittsfield, MA

blackice to battleop

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The Thing is, they wont see news.giganews.com on port 563. Not your ISP, or anyone that might be snooping the connection. (Though the NSA might using there fancy new super computer data centers, but that's just speculation)

When using a VPN all your ISP sees is VPN traffic on port 443, or whatever port the VPN is using. DNS requests are sent through the VPN's DSN server, and all packets routed through the VPN are encrypted.

Sure, someone might be able to see the amount of bandwidth/traffic you are using, but the ONLY thing they will know about that traffic is that it is being routed through an encrypted VPN. And that is not enough evidence to build any court cases on

dnoyeB
Ferrous Phallus
join:2000-10-09
Southfield, MI

dnoyeB

Member

True. But they will see a connection from the VPN to XXX or whatever they happen to be trying to monitor. So in the end its important that the VPN not give out your info when some third party comes calling on them.

battleop
join:2005-09-28
00000

battleop to Riusaki

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to Riusaki
"Assumption is not evidence. Here in the United States you need real proof someone is committing a crime."

Are you randomly replying to posts? I never spoke of the legalities on anything.
battleop

battleop to blackice

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to blackice
"The Thing is, they wont see news.giganews.com on port 563."

Do you understand how the internet works? Your ISP can absolutely see that you made a connection to news.giganews.com on port 563. They can't see what happens in that tunnel but they can certainly see the source (your IP) and destination (news.giganews.com) and what port the traffic was sent on.
battleop

battleop to dnoyeB

Member

to dnoyeB
Any network admin is going to know who GigaNews is and what they do. If I saw a maxed out connection talking to news.giganews.com it's not very hard to figure out what it's being used for.

blackice
join:2014-01-02
Pittsfield, MA

2 recommendations

blackice to battleop

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to battleop
If you setup your VPN client correctly, making sure you don't have DNS leaks, and the VPN isn't using a split tunnel, all your ISP will be able to see is encrypted packets with a source (your IP) and destination (VPN server). The VPN server then decrypts these packets, and sends DNS requests to it's DNS servers over it's own ISP. The bits of data that say (destination: news.giganews.com) are encrypted, until they reach the VPN server, by this time they are out of reach of your ISP.

When the data packets need to be sent back to your IP, the VPN server encrypts them, and sends them over the secure tunnel with the source (VPN server) and destination (your IP).

Here is a fancy diagram to better illustrate how a VPN works.
»i.stack.imgur.com/pEA5X.jpg

As dnoyeB sayed, if a government, or other authority wants to tap the connection after then VPN, or the VPN server itself, then your privacy is compromised. That is why it is extremely important to research the privacy policies, reviews, and reputation of a VPN provider before deciding to use them.

battleop
join:2005-09-28
00000

battleop

Member

"If you setup your VPN client correctly,"

Why is this so damn hard to understand? If I know the A side (your IP) and the Z side (news.giganews.com) I'm pretty sure I can make a damn good guess as to what you're doing.

As I've said several times they just won't know what content you are downloading but they will know who the tunnel is connected to. From there it's not very difficult to figure out what the tunnel to giganews is being used for.
battleop

battleop to Riusaki

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to Riusaki
"In your words anyone who happens to drive through a supposed bad neighborhood"

No, if you were able to correctly understand my example it's anyone who pulls into the garage of the known crack dealer's house and you close the garage door. We can't see that you were or were not making a drug deal but we can safely assume that something's up.

Wang
@spcsdns.net

2 recommendations

Wang to battleop

Anon

to battleop
Lol your asking him if he knows how the internet works as you yourself don't.. Through an encrypted Vpn with no dns leaks they can only see an encrypted connection made to your vpn provider and the amount of traffic, that's it.

Riusaki
join:2000-09-14
Space

2 edits

1 recommendation

Riusaki to battleop

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to battleop
Just admit that you just got owned.

Again it doesn't matter to a court because what the isp/network admin is doing is making an ASSUMPTION of what is really going on. They have no proof to state that the VPN is being used for illegitimate purposes.

Stop fear mongering with FUD and stick to the facts.
Riusaki

Riusaki to blackice

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to blackice
Finally someone with actual facts and not fear mongering fud.

TuxRaiderPen2
Make America Great Again
join:2009-09-19

1 recommendation

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quote:
No morals, just facts. You may think that a VPN hides what you are doing but it really does not, it only hides the content. If you see a connection from an end user to news.giganews.com on port 563 it does not take any real brain power to know what that connection is used for.

OK... please quote to me what newsgroups I am pulling from there ... I'll wait....

Name.. 1 of the groups of a little over 100K+ I am pulling daily from my NNTP provider via SSL on a VPN...

I'l narrow it down... I only pull the headers from my subscribed set and that is about ~ 100...oro so give or take...and one I haunt in particular...

MY ISP "sees" a connection to VPN Provider, but unless they are feeding it to the NSA live to break it.. they can't see that connection to the NNTP provider...

Again.. I will wait.... tell me 1 group I pull.....
TuxRaiderPen2

TuxRaiderPen2 to battleop

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So YOUR ASS U mption is that UseNet is nothing but a "bad neighbourhood?"

Well UseNet may provide a lot of things in the binary groups, there is just as much to be had in the text groups too...

I use UseNet for all kibds of support of things not related to what your ASS U ming I do with it. Long before this site and many others were around... and I prefer it...

Again still waiting for that group, just name 1 I pull....
TuxRaiderPen2

TuxRaiderPen2 to battleop

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to battleop
Why is this so damn hard for you to understand?

How is my IP of the VPN connected to the NNTP provider going to do much good? ? ? ?

The whole point is that I connect tothe VPN who has any number of users on x IP connected to news.providerofchoice.invalid on port 563.. maybe I even connect on 119 as some permit SSL on there too...

You are so wrong. I can gurantee my DNS goes out the VPN, matter of fact 100% goes out the VPN.... Period. Hell I've got a VPN over that VPN because all traffic is HARWARE ROUTED out that end...

Again just because I connect to NNTP and max the download, or upload or both does not match YOUR ASS U mption...

I willing to prove it ... again name one group.. just one of the ~ 100 I pull regularly and of the tens of thousands on my server...

battleop
join:2005-09-28
00000

battleop to Riusaki

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to Riusaki
Put the pipe down....
battleop

battleop to TuxRaiderPen2

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to TuxRaiderPen2
Good grief. Reading comprehension is so overrated. Let's examine the quote you posted form my post.

No morals, just facts. You may think that a VPN hides what you are doing but it really does not, it only hides the content.

Kind of seems like I keep saying they can't see the content. Just the A side and Z side. If the Z side is news.giganews.com it's pretty safe to assume they are downloading music and movies. I've been a long time subscriber to various newsgroup providers for a very long time.

"If you see a connection from an end user to news.giganews.com on port 563 it does not take any real brain power to know what that connection is used for."

Oh I get it. You are maxing out your connection looking for those rare and elusive text usenet groups. Kinda how all torrenters are after that ultra rare Linux ISO.