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nascar
join:2000-02-28
Verona, NJ

nascar to JPL

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Re: [DVR] All Things VMS

That would be cool.
said by JPL:

... prompt you to see if you would like to get the IP feed.

blue_trooper
join:2007-04-17
Exton, PA

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said by jr461:

Right now I have 4 DVRs (den and 3 BRs) and 1 plain HD box. This solves the problem of eliminating recording conflicts while allowing transport features on all TVs (where needed). All boxes see all recordings and recordings can be set up to any DVR from any box.

I'm all for getting the latest and greatest, however, would switching to the VMS system improve my set up and, if so, how?

It should be cheaper, unless you've got some super special deal on that hardware. You'd get pause/rewind capability in the one non-DVR room. And you'd see all of your recordings in a single place rather than having to remember which of the four DVR's has the show you want.
nyrrule27
join:2007-12-06
Howell, NJ

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They don't have tuners in them. The get the feed from the bms server. The ip boxes never talk to the head end. They only talk to the bms server

Thinkdiff
MVM,
join:2001-08-07
Bronx, NY

Thinkdiff

MVM,

said by nyrrule27:

They don't have tuners in them. The get the feed from the bms server. The ip boxes never talk to the head end. They only talk to the bms server

When the VMS is down, the IP-STBs will receive 70 channels via the network connection from Verizon (same/similar system that the mobile app uses). The question is whether they can use those same 70 channels when all tuners on the VMS are in-use (I'm guessing no as well).
JPL
Premium Member
join:2007-04-04
Downingtown, PA

JPL

Premium Member

Even if it doesn't automatically cut over, though, you can just disconnect the IP box from the VMS. Although I'm a little reluctant to try that at this point... I do want to test this out... just so I can get strange looks from my wife when she wonders what in the world I'm doing.
Oceanside426
join:2012-07-15
Oceanside, NY

Oceanside426

Member

By the way can someone check are you guys with the VMS still limited to the 2 VOD streams per household meaning can you if you want start a VOD on every single box in your house at the same time or does it give you an error about just two HD VOD's at one time. I hated this cause I used to have fios and that made me want to leave especially when primetime shows went on-demand and having 6 tv's with 6 people in a family wanting to watch different shows makes it hard thats the one advantage of cablevision I can play as many VOD's as I want.
JPL
Premium Member
join:2007-04-04
Downingtown, PA

JPL

Premium Member

And I got an answer to the question (well, part of one). I set up 5 separate shows to record via the IP box, and when I attempted to record a 6th, I got a message that all tuners were busy, and it prompted me to cancel one of the recordings. It didn't give me the option to cut over to the IP feed. I will say this, though - the prompt is nicer . For whatever that's worth. It gives the list of programs, including an icon of the channel that's being recorded, and you can cycle through the list to pick which you want to cancel recording.

I do want to run one more test - what happens if the DVR is recording 6 programs, and I turn on the IP box? I'll have to wait to test that, though - right now the kids are watching Frozen (for the billionth time) on the TV with the VMS on it.
Timothy28
join:2006-05-13
Lewisville, TX

Timothy28

Member

Isn't that exactly what you see if you have IMG 1.9.5? What you describe sounds similar. I'm curious what it says when you try to use it with all 6 in use. I'm sure there will be some kind of popup.
whsbuss
join:2007-08-10
Norristown, PA

whsbuss to JPL

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said by JPL:

And I got an answer to the question (well, part of one). I set up 5 separate shows to record via the IP box, and when I attempted to record a 6th, I got a message that all tuners were busy, and it prompted me to cancel one of the recordings. It didn't give me the option to cut over to the IP feed. I will say this, though - the prompt is nicer . For whatever that's worth. It gives the list of programs, including an icon of the channel that's being recorded, and you can cycle through the list to pick which you want to cancel recording.

I do want to run one more test - what happens if the DVR is recording 6 programs, and I turn on the IP box? I'll have to wait to test that, though - right now the kids are watching Frozen (for the billionth time) on the TV with the VMS on it.

I get a list now (on Cisco STB) which I can choose to stop a recording.
dfwguy
join:2013-10-24

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said by Betamax76:

They always recommend placing house amps as close to the signal source (point-of-entry) as possible so I wonder if the S/N ratio suffers with internal amplification at the server. With FiOS, it really shouldn't be a problem since the ONT outputs between +11 and +14 dBmV.

It's kind of a moot point because every addressable digital cable device in existence is amplifying and splitting the signal already. Even a plain old non-DVR box has 2 tuners, one for out of band and one for in-band. Improvements in the performance of amps, tuners, and demodulators over the years have allowed for more amplification and more splits with no net loss in performance, and often an improvement.
JPL
Premium Member
join:2007-04-04
Downingtown, PA

JPL to whsbuss

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to whsbuss
I've always seen a list too. But this one looked different to me. Maybe I'm just not recalling the screen from the 7232 correctly, or it looks different because it's taking up more real estate on the screen. I just don't remember seeing those icons before. They were probably there, but I just don't recall them. Anyway, the point remains - the IP box doesn't appear to fail over to the IP stream when all tuners are used to record. I still need to test out what happens when I have 6 recordings already going and I try to watch live TV on the IP box.

I have to wonder, though - why did it only allow me to record 5 shows? Why not 6? Is it possible that one tuner will always be on for live TV for the IP boxes you have connected? So, I had 5 shows recording, and I was watching a 6th show live, but when I went to record that 6th show, I couldn't. Anyone out there with more than 1 IP box - just wondering what you see when you repeat that test.

matcarl
Premium Member
join:2007-03-09
Franklin Square, NY

matcarl

Premium Member

That's strange, so that means you can't even watch the show that's being recorded on an IP box? You tried to record the show you were watching while 5 were already being recorded. I guess the IP boxes won't even let you watch a show being recorded then? Can you watch a show that was already recorded if 6 are taping or will it not even let you turn it on?

HenryFarpolo
Premium Member
join:2003-08-31
Andover, MA

HenryFarpolo

Premium Member

That was an issue with TIVO when the MINI first came out. The MINI was allocated a tuner from the host so in essence you lost one tuner full time. In a release few months ago they introduced dynamic tuner allocation which freed up the tuner allocated for the MINI if the MINI was not in use.
JPL
Premium Member
join:2007-04-04
Downingtown, PA

JPL to matcarl

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to matcarl
Good question. I'll have to test it out. Remember that I was doing all of that on the IP box. I want to see how many shows I can record from the VMS directly. If it limits me to 5 then you'll know the answer. I think you would have to disconnect the IP box from the VMS to open up the tuner for recording in that case.
Timothy28
join:2006-05-13
Lewisville, TX

Timothy28

Member

That would suck if you can't record a 6th show from an ip box and only from the VMS itself. I have a question, can you setup a series record from the ip boxes? With the older boxes it can only be done from the DVR itself.
crgauth
join:2004-05-18
Glen Burnie, MD

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How many IP boxes do you have?
I have 3. Would hate to find out that the 3 take up tuners or that you have to remember to disconnect when done watching.
Unless you can just hit the power button to turn then "off".
My family would no remember to go through a process to disconnect when done.
JPL
Premium Member
join:2007-04-04
Downingtown, PA

JPL to Timothy28

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to Timothy28
I have a feeling that the IP box permanently takes a tuner - just like the old TiVo mini deal. That would explain why you can only have 4 IP boxes tied to the account at a time, leaving 2 tuners just for the DVR. If that's true, then I have a feeling that you won't be able to record 6 programs even from the DVR. But I need to test that out. But if it's set up like I THINK it's set up... that's another con for the DVR - you would lose a tuner to record for each IP box on the set up.

As for setting up the series - yes, you can do anything from the IP box that you can do from the DVR. That's what I mean by the integration being totally seamless. With a couple of exceptions in the settings menu, you can't tell if you're on the IP box or the DVR.
Timothy28
join:2006-05-13
Lewisville, TX

Timothy28

Member

It sounds like it works exactly like the U-verse worked too. You could record 3 and watch a 4th. Those who do need to record 4 or more shows at once would be better off getting the premium obviously.

Good, that is another pro then. With the current DVR it can be annoying to have to go into the room with the DVR to setup a series record. Or if someone was using it at the time you'd have to wait. Being able to do it from the tv your using is another big plus for me.

motorola870
join:2008-12-07
Arlington, TX

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said by JPL:

The question is, though - will the IP boxes fail over to IP mode? Meaning will they automatically fail over to where they're getting feeds directly from the head end? That's the question. I'm guessing they won't. I'm guessing it'll prompt you to cancel a recording. Then again, it may prompt you to see if you would like to get the IP feed.

no what happens is the IP client takes up a tuner on the VMS when it is being used meaning that all 6 tuners in the VMS are not dedicated to the VMS all of the boxes share them and the VMS transcodes the content coming in on the QAM feed that the VMS gets and sends it out using MPEG4 via IP to the client boxes none of the channels from the VHO are IP save for VOD which will likely operate the same way it has been operating.

Thinkdiff
MVM,
join:2001-08-07
Bronx, NY

Thinkdiff

MVM,

Are you 100% sure the VMS is doing transcoding? Seems like a waste unless it was done in anticipation of a wireless STB. Simultaneous transcoding of 4 h.264 streams is not cheap.

And it's been pointed out multiple times now that the IP-STBs can receive the "mobile app" channels via the network connection when the VMS is down, which is what JPL was referring to there.

matcarl
Premium Member
join:2007-03-09
Franklin Square, NY

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So you mean if someone has 3 IP boxes plus the VMS, three tuners are constantly being used? That makes no sense. Then how does it record 6 shows? How does it know if someone is watching the client box or not? JPL only has one IP box I believe, someone with more has to do this testing and let us all know.
JPL
Premium Member
join:2007-04-04
Downingtown, PA

JPL

Premium Member

Good questions. I would like to know the answer from someone who has more than 1 box. It could be the fact that I did all the recording via the IP box that caused me to have this issue. I still haven't had the chance to try out the situation where I set up 6 recordings on the VMS itself. I'll do that at some point but the kids are watching Frozen... again... on that same TV.

BTW one other thing I noticed, which took me a minute to figure out - here on this computer, I brought up the file explorer, and I saw a new device on my network. It's listed as Motorola DMS. Never saw that before. When I open it up I see one folder in there (which is empty) called: recordings. I'm guessing this means that you'll be able to push recordings off externally from the VMS. And to demonstrate that it IS what I think it is, I selected the properties for the device. The model is named: Verizon Media Server. Clearly the media server is on my home network. I'm guessing that when they do turn on wireless, you're going to be able to offload recordings. Just a guess. Anyone with more insight... it would be greatly appreciated.
matt_cpa
join:2007-08-21
West Chester, PA

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said by JPL:

I have a feeling that the IP box permanently takes a tuner - just like the old TiVo mini deal. That would explain why you can only have 4 IP boxes tied to the account at a time, leaving 2 tuners just for the DVR. If that's true, then I have a feeling that you won't be able to record 6 programs even from the DVR. But I need to test that out. But if it's set up like I THINK it's set up... that's another con for the DVR - you would lose a tuner to record for each IP box on the set up.

As for setting up the series - yes, you can do anything from the IP box that you can do from the DVR. That's what I mean by the integration being totally seamless. With a couple of exceptions in the settings menu, you can't tell if you're on the IP box or the DVR.

I was able to record six items at once from a remote Box. The vms and the other remote box were off. I simply hit record on 6 different channels and was able to record all. On the 7th press of rec I got the choice on which I wanted to stop. I do not think a tuner is reserved for anything other than boxes that are on.
JPL
Premium Member
join:2007-04-04
Downingtown, PA

JPL

Premium Member

Interesting. It's possible the VMS was on at the time (the TV that it's hooked to was off, but that means nothing in my house). If that's true... then my apologies for this snipe hunt . Makes me feel better that the remote boxes don't permanently take a dedicated tuner. Thanks for running the test.
nowayout
join:2009-06-22
Allentown, PA

nowayout to matcarl

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said by matcarl:

So you mean if someone has 3 IP boxes plus the VMS, three tuners are constantly being used? That makes no sense. Then how does it record 6 shows? How does it know if someone is watching the client box or not? JPL only has one IP box I believe, someone with more has to do this testing and let us all know.

Someone else with VMS and IP boxes will have to reply with Verizon's exact implementation, but it probably works similarly to the way Tivo and their IP boxes do... The VMS will take back tuners when they're needed for recordings. IP boxes that can't get a tuner will likely be restricted to records during these periods unless it prompts you to cancel a recording in progress. (I wonder if the OTT video is available during these times too?)
JPL
Premium Member
join:2007-04-04
Downingtown, PA

JPL

Premium Member

Looks like it was answered. I must have done something not quite right in my test. I'm betting the VMS was powered on when I ran it. As for the OTT video - that was sort of answered too. If I set up the recordings from the IP box, when I run out of tuners, I'm not given the option of going for the OTT video. I don't know what will happen, though, if I have 6 tuners recording, and then I turn on the IP box. I will test that tonight.

bohratom
My Jersey Giants finally winning again..
join:2011-07-07
Red Bank NJ

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bohratom to whsbuss

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Looks like we finally will have a reason to use the "Power" button on the remote. Pre VMS all it did was save around 1-2watts an hour but with IP boxes probably saves alot more like recordings.....

matcarl
Premium Member
join:2007-03-09
Franklin Square, NY

matcarl

Premium Member

Yeah, you have to remember to shut all boxes or some recordings may not happen.
matcarl

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said by JPL:

BTW one other thing I noticed, which took me a minute to figure out - here on this computer, I brought up the file explorer, and I saw a new device on my network. It's listed as Motorola DMS. Never saw that before. When I open it up I see one folder in there (which is empty) called: recordings. I'm guessing this means that you'll be able to push recordings off externally from the VMS. And to demonstrate that it IS what I think it is, I selected the properties for the device. The model is named: Verizon Media Server. Clearly the media server is on my home network. I'm guessing that when they do turn on wireless, you're going to be able to offload recordings. Just a guess. Anyone with more insight... it would be greatly appreciated.

Also, didn't they discontinue the Media Manager because of this? Maybe down the road we can watch our videos from the computer again?
bill_w
join:2014-03-14
Dover, DE

bill_w to Betamax76

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said by Betamax76:

Given that the VMS has an internal 6 way splitter (loss of 11 db) to accommodate 6 tuners, what is the minimum signal strength for this device? I would GUESS at least +1 dBmV. The 2 tuner DVRs could probably get by with a minimum of -6 dBmV.

The VMS box still requires a minimum of -6, no change there. The RF levels at the IP boxes are irrelevant.