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IowaCowboy
Lost in the Supermarket
Premium Member
join:2010-10-16
Springfield, MA

5 recommendations

IowaCowboy

Premium Member

I'd gladly sue them to get FiOS

I'd gladly sue them demanding they upgrade my area to FiOS and use the discovery process to uncover why certain areas were NOT upgraded to FiOS during the initial rollout and why FiOS expansion has been suspended.

In my book they can shut down POTS/DSL but only if those areas are upgraded to FiOS.
jades
join:2013-04-01
New York, NY

jades

Member

+1
I just dont understand how they have the balls to sue verizon for giving them something better. It's because of these people that it's so difficult for companies like verizon to give us something better.
silbaco
Premium Member
join:2009-08-03
USA

silbaco

Premium Member

These people are very common. They obviously don't usually sue, but they refuse to upgrade to fiber. That is one of the reasons Verizon is reluctant to upgrade more areas to FiOS. As long as they have to maintain both networks, they cannot take advantage of the cost savings of having an all-fiber network. In fact the copper network in FiOS areas is probably losing them money.
Crookshanks
join:2008-02-04
Binghamton, NY

2 recommendations

Crookshanks to jades

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said by jades:

I just dont understand how they have the balls to sue verizon for giving them something better.

In one very important area (service survival time during power outages) copper is superior to fiber. Verizon can truck generators in that will power their central offices almost indefinitely during disasters, indeed they exactly that during our area wide floods in 2011. Copper allows these centralized generators to power all hard wired subscriber voice devices, regardless of whether or not power exists at their address.

Is that sole advantage sufficient justification to keep copper around? Probably not. But let's not pretend it isn't a real issue for a lot of customers, or ignore the real costs imposed on people and businesses who need to provision their own backup power supply to maintain communications during emergencies.

I would be livid if Verizon just showed up at my home (or worse, my business) one day and announced they were cutting the copper and moving us over to fiber. Are they actually doing that, or is this push-back from people who had ample notice of the switchover but still don't want to go along for whatever reason?

Eddy120876
join:2009-02-16
Bronx, NY

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Add me as your co defendant so we can sue Verizon so we get Fios now!!!

AnonMe
@comcastbusiness.net

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Anon

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To us "users" who live and die by good Internet access, it's a no-brainer. To others who live and die by deciding whether to pay MORE for better Internet and digital phone service versus their prescription medications needed to live, or food, or heat, then this is a big deal.

Additionally, analog modems are still alive and well in many industries. In fact, some fire departments REQUIRE a POTS line for commercial fire systems to get and keep a Certificate of Occupancy for a business or residential housing units. "Digital Phone" service like Comcast and FOIS doesn't meet the requirements of the most stubborn, unflexible, fire departments. Many fire departments are happy to shut down businesses without applying any common sense approaches. Some businesses may also be locked into 3 year contracts for equipment like credit card processing machines, etc.

And once the copper is gone, the regulation that requires all to be serviced in a given area, is effectively gutted as well.

Beyond that, there are still plenty of copper private line circuits that will remain for a really long time to come.

It's easy to say, kill the copper, but there are LOTS of industries that still rely on it. I completely understand the goal of going fiber, but it's not as easy as saying pull the plug on copper.

IowaCowboy
Lost in the Supermarket
Premium Member
join:2010-10-16
Springfield, MA

1 edit

IowaCowboy

Premium Member

I've been saying that too, here in Mass the lottery terminals depend on ISDN circuits. The state probably thinks it's more secure than IP.

I guess they can't suddenly have that $400 million Powerball winning ticket sold seconds after it was drawn.

Another thing that would easily get hacked is the Keno system if they went IP.

In some ways leased lines are more secure as the traffic is off limits to the general internet, which limits hacking abilities. That's why state lotteries use them.

Smith6612
MVM
join:2008-02-01
North Tonawanda, NY

Smith6612

MVM

Aren't some FiOS ONTs meant for Business use designed to spit out T1 or ISDN circuits for this exact reason? I think I remember seeing such an ONT, but I might be just imagining things.
openbox9
Premium Member
join:2004-01-26
71144

1 recommendation

openbox9 to IowaCowboy

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to IowaCowboy
What do you think happens to those ISDN lines when they hit the switch? No different than alarm companies, the state lottery needs to adapt, or pay for the privilege (it'll become exponentially more expensive) of maintaining a technology/infrastructure that is quickly approaching EOL. If the lottery can't afford to upgrade its technology I guess they need to withhold more from the payout.
openbox9

openbox9 to Crookshanks

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to Crookshanks
said by Crookshanks:

Copper allows these centralized generators to power all hard wired subscriber voice devices, regardless of whether or not power exists at their address.

As long as the consumers still have line powered devices.
said by Crookshanks:

I would be livid if Verizon just showed up at my home (or worse, my business) one day and announced they were cutting the copper and moving us over to fiber.

Granted, but I would hope that VZ provided notice that this change was coming. With said notice, users shouldn't have a choice as VZ moves to replace copper with fiber. It's horribly inefficient to maintain two parallel infrastructures.

IowaCowboy
Lost in the Supermarket
Premium Member
join:2010-10-16
Springfield, MA

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One user pointed out there are many users still on analog modems that refuse to upgrade, especially some fire departments that will issue a non-compliance order if the fire alarm is connected by any other phone service other than copper.
jades
join:2013-04-01
New York, NY

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It's funny because after hurricane sandy, in NYC all copper services were down. Phone, t1, EOC, you name it. All fios and other fiber connections were up and running. So anything can go dead at any given moment. Nothing is reliable these days. A truck can ram into a copper pole and take the fire station service down for few days, meanwhile the coax and the cable being run through the backyards can be holding steady

What's ironic was that the entire verizon wireless network - lte and CDMA were down for almost two weeks after the hurricane. Also in NYC. Phones displayed signal but I guess their fios network survived and their supposedly fiber enabled lte network didn't survive
Kearnstd
Space Elf
Premium Member
join:2002-01-22
Mullica Hill, NJ

Kearnstd to IowaCowboy

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state lotteries is too broad. Here in NJ the machine is most certainly on the IP network. infact its on 3G or a satellite link because they have no way to know if every location has ISDN for which support is growing increasingly rare.
Kearnstd

Kearnstd to Crookshanks

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to Crookshanks
power failure stability is the biggest thing for POTS really, Other than that it has no advantages over fiber/cable.

but I think anything above a small business likely has to have battery or generator for telephones anyway once they move up beyond basic multiple line units to a full PBX system(if they are even still called PBX systems.)
openbox9
Premium Member
join:2004-01-26
71144

1 recommendation

openbox9 to IowaCowboy

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to IowaCowboy
said by IowaCowboy:

One user pointed out there are many users still on analog modems that refuse to upgrade, especially some fire departments that will issue a non-compliance order if the fire alarm is connected by any other phone service other than copper.

And there are many devices historically connected to modems and two tiny copper wires that have been upgraded/replaced to work with technologies available in the 21st Century. It's time to move forward.
WhatNow
Premium Member
join:2009-05-06
Charlotte, NC

WhatNow

Premium Member

If the price goes up they will change over. The fire dept is just like the people on med alerts devices that need POTS they need to move into the 21 century or pay for keeping the old technology. When an old POTS line cost $200 people will drop it. If customers can choose nothing, cable, wireless, and satellite. Many service stations use satellite for their credit card transactions. Why should the telco maintain a run of cable with only 10-20 customers when it may have had 200 customers in the 80s.
WhatNow

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There a lot of POTS customer that lose their service because the phones in the house are cordless. When the battery in the phone dies no dial tone. They do not think to keep an old phone to plug in when the power dies for a day. My buddies told me when the East Coast got hit by the snow and ice storm this February they kept them off the roads and let the electronic equipment feeding POTS out in the field die when the batteries were drained. If you copper pair does not go all the way back to the CO don't count on service after about 12 hours. The telcos no longer support the POTS system like they did in the past. If they piss customers off and they leave the system that is one more customer they don't have to worry about fighting over moving them to IP.

IowaCowboy
Lost in the Supermarket
Premium Member
join:2010-10-16
Springfield, MA

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I do have a corded phone but my Panasonic cordless phone set will power the base if you put a charged handset in the base during a power outage.

cork1958
Cork
Premium Member
join:2000-02-26

1 recommendation

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said by jades:

It's because of these people that it's so difficult for companies like verizon to give us something better.

And a way for these rip off artists to make more money! Personally, I think Verizon and AT&T should be disbanded for their continuous lies and everything despicable they do! Which is just about everything! Can't stand either company!
Goldielover
join:2008-02-29
Toronto, ON

Goldielover to WhatNow

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That's why at least one of my POTS phones is a fully corded model. They're cheap - I paid less than $10.00 for it brand new. When the ice storm hit just before Christmas, the internet was down, the cell phones died after the first few days, but POTS kept on running. We were down for ten days. The older technologies are still more reliable in emergency situations. I was a bit surprised at the amount of younger people in particular who didn't have POTS, didn't have a battery powered radio, and some didn't even have so much as a flashlight. I saw one guy trying to navigate the pitch black apartment stairwell using only the light from the screen of his smartphone. Another (after power was back) complained on an online comments section of a news article that the emergency authorities should have gone door to door updating people, as they had no way of knowing what was going on without the internet. Until they can come up with some way of making the newer technologies as reliable as the old then I'm sticking with what I have. I could get VOIP for about half of what I pay for POTS, but I would have been SOL during the power outage.
CXM_Splicer
Looking at the bigger picture
Premium Member
join:2011-08-11
NYC

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said by jades:

It's funny because after hurricane sandy, in NYC all copper services were down. Phone, t1, EOC, you name it. All fios and other fiber connections were up and running.

I assume you mean your copper services and not ALL copper services. There were only a couple of COs that completely flooded out to knock out all copper services. The majority of copper services in NYC were up throughout the storm and afterwards. I spent over a month of 12 hr days/7 days a week resplicing all the fiber that was knocked out (they told us to ignore the copper troubles). Also, pretty much anyone that lost power for more than 24 hrs lost their FIOS when the back-up battery died. Strangely, that doesn't count against Verizon as a 'trouble'. My parents had no phone (FIOS) for 2 weeks; they had to go to the neighbor's house to use their POTS line which worked fine.
TBBroadband
join:2012-10-26
Fremont, OH

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Ohio uses HughesNet for all lottery terminals.
openbox9
Premium Member
join:2004-01-26
71144

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said by WhatNow:

If the price goes up they will change over.

Granted, but therein lies a problem since dial tone is regulated and the price can't easily be increased to 'encourage' customers to migrate.
bop75
join:2013-11-08
0000

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dude.....you're speaking for a lot of people you don't know dick about. Everyone I know that's still on POTS have an old plug in phones for that very reason.
Kearnstd
Space Elf
Premium Member
join:2002-01-22
Mullica Hill, NJ

Kearnstd

Premium Member

said by bop75:

dude.....you're speaking for a lot of people you don't know dick about. Everyone I know that's still on POTS have an old plug in phones for that very reason.

Exactly what we do. Our primary house phone is allways cordless and then the master bedroom has a corded trimline.
wildthing202
join:2007-08-14
Douglas, MA

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That's easy the state senate didn't pass a Verizon friendly bill and they just stopped building it out.

fb
@rr.com

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and that is what Verizon is doing.
Goldielover
join:2008-02-29
Toronto, ON

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We have one cordless, and three corded. Two of the corded are modern trimline types, but the third is a fully restored and functional 68 year old Stromberg Carlson model 1243 rotary dial. Great conversation piece, and works fine except for calling businesses where one may have to navigate a menu.

ieolus
Support The Clecs
join:2001-06-19
Danbury, CT

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If users shouldn't have a choice, then VZ should be forced to keep all obligations under a copper network with their fiber network. It is that simple.
openbox9
Premium Member
join:2004-01-26
71144

openbox9

Premium Member

Such as?