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twinclouds
join:2010-06-12
San Diego, CA

twinclouds

Member

Google Voice to be killed?

We all know XMPP is likely stopped working after May 15 for GV. However, this article (»9to5google.com/2014/03/1 ··· comments) seems implying Google Voice will totally change. Anybody know what does this mean?
nitzan
Premium Member
join:2008-02-27

1 recommendation

nitzan

Premium Member

At this point it's all rumors. Google (in typical Google fashion) hasn't come out and said anything. We'll have to wait and see, meanwhile the only thing we know for sure is Obi->GV directly is going to stop working May 15.
mazilo
From Mazilo
Premium Member
join:2002-05-30
Lilburn, GA

mazilo

Premium Member

said by nitzan:

At this point it's all rumors. Google (in typical Google fashion) hasn't come out and said anything. We'll have to wait and see, meanwhile the only thing we know for sure is Obi->GV directly is going to stop working May 15.

Exactly.

brg
Premium Member
join:2001-01-03
Chicago, IL

brg to twinclouds

Premium Member

to twinclouds
Twinclouds, that article has vitrually no substance to it. It's all conjecture. Until something more concrete surfaces we just don't know...
twinclouds
join:2010-06-12
San Diego, CA

twinclouds

Member

Thank you all. I just hope the callback scheme will continue working.
PX Eliezer1
Premium Member
join:2013-03-10
Zubrowka USA

PX Eliezer1

Premium Member

As was said, no one knows for sure.

Even they may not know.

So continue using it, but have backups in mind.

If they decide to discontinue their DID's they will have to give at least 30 days notice of [that] because those are real DID's from a CLEC and are subject to the FCC 30-day warning requirement.

Again, I said IF.
nitzan
Premium Member
join:2008-02-27

nitzan

Premium Member

said by PX Eliezer1:

If they decide to discontinue their DID's they will have to give at least 30 days notice of [that] because those are real DID's from a CLEC and are subject to the FCC 30-day warning requirement.

GV is not an "interconnected" service provider, and as such this rule does not apply to them. They could discontinue service tomorrow with no notice if they felt like it.
PX Eliezer1
Premium Member
join:2013-03-10
Zubrowka USA

PX Eliezer1

Premium Member

said by nitzan:

said by PX Eliezer1:

If they decide to discontinue their DID's they will have to give at least 30 days notice of [that] because those are real DID's from a CLEC and are subject to the FCC 30-day warning requirement.

GV is not an "interconnected" service provider, and as such this rule does not apply to them. They could discontinue service tomorrow with no notice if they felt like it.

I think that would be an arguable point, but from the PR alone I suspect and hope that they would provide notice regardless.

If not, that will be an awful big stink and another bad soundbite against VoIP (and against Google for that matter).
dutchtender
join:2010-11-21
Sunnyvale, CA

dutchtender to twinclouds

Member

to twinclouds
I suspect if they wind it down they will give customers a year to make changes.

brg
Premium Member
join:2001-01-03
Chicago, IL

brg

Premium Member

said by dutchtender:

I suspect if they wind it down they will give customers a year to make changes.

Why do you suspect that? When Google told users/developers (the latter whom had invested real money so as to use a published API) to stop interconnecting via XMPP they only gave 6 months notice...
PX Eliezer1
Premium Member
join:2013-03-10
Zubrowka USA

PX Eliezer1

Premium Member

Indeed, a year is forever online.

We are ALL guessing and speculating, but I would guess 60-90 days at the most IF it came to that.
zamarac
join:2008-11-29
Canada

zamarac to nitzan

Member

to nitzan
I didn't catch it what exactly the article said? Folks can use Hangouts now to call other DIDs via a GV acc. It seems like they plan to add this functionality without having a GV DID since they plan to cancel GV - did I get it right? In this case mobile operators will just increase data plan rates again making it less attractive to use VoIP in mobile.

The real question is, what would in take to make mobile operators interested in voice over data? Probably this thing will evolve similar to Cable TV : once more users start cancelling cellphone plans, data rates start dropping. Though, quality and security of data voice connection is now way behind cell.
nitzan
Premium Member
join:2008-02-27

nitzan

Premium Member

said by zamarac:

The real question is, what would in take to make mobile operators interested in voice over data? Probably this thing will evolve similar to Cable TV : once more users start cancelling cellphone plans, data rates start dropping.

On the contrary. Expect to see higher data rates and more draconian plans as mobile operators try to block Google from eroding their voice profits. VOIP providers can't do much about Google Voice, but don't expect AT&T and Verizon to roll over so easily - they will put up a battle and if history is any indication Google will lose.
dutchtender
join:2010-11-21
Sunnyvale, CA

dutchtender to brg

Member

to brg
said by brg:

said by dutchtender:

I suspect if they wind it down they will give customers a year to make changes.

Why do you suspect that? When Google told users/developers (the latter whom had invested real money so as to use a published API) to stop interconnecting via XMPP they only gave 6 months notice...

for good will. and they would have no urgency to wind it down from legacy mode that quickly. at minimum 6mo. I don't think 90 days is enough to get everybody ported out.
zamarac
join:2008-11-29
Canada

1 edit

zamarac to nitzan

Member

to nitzan
said by nitzan:

don't expect AT&T and Verizon to roll over so easily - they will put up a battle and if history is any indication Google will lose.

Are you saying that VoIP has no roadmap to mobile? But Cable TV companies now experience drastic loss of TV package subscribers to OTA+Netflix, so they try to evolve offering own version of "Netflix" type service each. There might be a similar passway for mobile operators from cell to own voice-over-data service as a competing to Google Hangouts offer...
twinclouds
join:2010-06-12
San Diego, CA

twinclouds

Member

said by zamarac:

Are you saying that VoIP has no roadmap to mobile?

Not sure what do you mean. VOIP can reach mobile as of today but they need a wireless pipe. It is only available by the cellular companies, unless VOIP establish their direct transmission, but that will not cost effective.
BTW, I didn't track it, but even though Google's TiSP is called wireless, I don't think they can be used in mobile environment. I think it is a type of fixed wireless access through a backhaul of fiber.
nitzan
Premium Member
join:2008-02-27

nitzan to zamarac

Premium Member

to zamarac
said by zamarac:

But Cable TV companies now experience drastic loss of TV package subscribers to OTA+Netflix, so they try to evolve offering own version of "Netflix" type service each. There might be a similar passway for mobile operators from cell to own voice-over-data service as a competing to Google Hangouts offer...

Apples and Oranges. Users have a lot more choice when it comes to ISPs than they do when it comes to mobile carriers. To illustrate- if Comcast blocked Netflix it's unlikely that AT&T and Verizon will too because they have no major incentive to do so, and they'd love to gobble up the customers Comcast will be losing. On the other hand ALL mobile carriers have an incentive to block or severely cripple voice usage through their data plans - if Verizon did it so will AT&T and Sprint - the only reason they're not already doing it is that there isn't enough incentive to take on that fight at this point because almost every customer has a voice plan. If someone like Google tries to push in on the market and it becomes a problem - all it takes is raising data plan pricing or getting creative with jitter to get those users right back on a voice plan. Even as-is VOIP quality over mobile data is crappy at best - add a few price gotchas and any such plan is moot.
PX Eliezer1
Premium Member
join:2013-03-10
Zubrowka USA

PX Eliezer1

Premium Member

said by nitzan:

Users have a lot more choice when it comes to ISPs than they do when it comes to mobile carriers.

Puzzled.

For mobile carriers, I can choose Verizon, ATT, Sprint, T-Mobile, Metro PCS, and a slew of resellers and MVNO such as PagePlus, Net10, StraightTalk, and others.

-----

For ISP, most of my prosperous densely populated NY suburban town has one choice (Optimum Cablevision) and some homes have two choices (Optimum Cablevision and Verizon FiOS).

And that's true for most of the country. Very few have more than two ISP to choose from (excepting satellite) and an awful lot have only one ISP (so no choice).
ronny_b
join:2004-10-10
Saint Louis, MO

ronny_b to nitzan

Member

to nitzan
Some Pure Speculation - What if, on or about May 15, Google were to introduce a new ATA, pre-programmed for their voice service, and possibly including a DID?

Maybe, in addition, the unit would have slots, ala the Obi, for adding other services.

You pay for the DID, but the calls are still free. And transferring your GV DID from Obi would also be free.

The market should be huge.

If you are lurking, Google, I claim royalties!

Ron

cb14
join:2013-02-04
Miami Beach, FL

cb14 to PX Eliezer1

Member

to PX Eliezer1
I am lucky to be in an area with two broadband providers, Tea and Concast and although there is not much competition between those two duopolists it still saves me about $10/month compared to single provider areas.The reason is, whenever you try to ,leave in order to get a special from the other party they come up with their own special and while it is less than it used to be it still makes a difference.
k2rj
Premium Member
join:2005-03-24
Cape Canaveral, FL

k2rj to twinclouds

Premium Member

to twinclouds
My GV is fully integrated with my Sprint PCS service where calls and texts from my phone originate the GV number CID. Seems like just killing it might not be so easy...if they have these agreements with other carriers.
twinclouds
join:2010-06-12
San Diego, CA

twinclouds

Member

Does Spring PCS count your minutes when you make the call?
k2rj
Premium Member
join:2005-03-24
Cape Canaveral, FL

k2rj

Premium Member

said by twinclouds:

Does Spring PCS count your minutes when you make the call?

Yes, it's counted the same as any other call, AFAIK. I never even get close to my call caps, so I don't keep track of the details. I use the GV number as my "local" phone number, as my cell and voip still have Ohio numbers.
twinclouds
join:2010-06-12
San Diego, CA

twinclouds

Member

said by k2rj:

Yes, it's counted the same as any other call, AFAIK.

That was what I thought. No, in that case, they will probably cannot kill it too easily but not for other free apps.
k2rj
Premium Member
join:2005-03-24
Cape Canaveral, FL

k2rj

Premium Member

said by twinclouds:

said by k2rj:

Yes, it's counted the same as any other call, AFAIK.

That was what I thought. No, in that case, they will probably cannot kill it too easily but not for other free apps.

Interesting that Sprint has announced that it will concentrate on voice-over-wifi instead of voice-over-LTE... may or may not be related to their GV relationship...
w1ve
Premium Member
join:2007-12-28
Hancock, NH

w1ve

Premium Member

VoIP (w/uLaw/aLaw codecs) over cellular data sucks. Plain and simple. Try driving in a car -- It's really bad. Not only does call quality suck, but the network infrastructure is not suited for SIP. (Funny, because VoIP is used for tons of backhaul. VoiP on copper/fiber is a LOT cheaper than TDM!). Unless and until we see VoLTE available to us, VoIP on your smartphone over cellular data is for us geeks who like to play with it, or, for use in homes or office buildings where you are accessing the same access point all the time. Republic Wireless is trying to make Wifi work, but they can never get the handoff working. I don't think Google will be offering any voice-based cellular service soon....
twinclouds
join:2010-06-12
San Diego, CA

twinclouds to k2rj

Member

to k2rj
said by k2rj:

Interesting that Sprint has announced that it will concentrate on voice-over-wifi instead of voice-over-LTE...

Interesting indeed. I have been working in wireless communication industry for over 25 years. From my experience, sending voice over wireless data network is not an easy task. In addition to network QOS requirement, which is what most carriers are concentrated on, physical network conditions are even more difficult to meet. Right now, I don't think the LTE network coverage can meet VoLTE requirement yet. In addition, there are also issues switching between cell towers (hand-off). These issues can be solved for sure, but not as easy as using SIP on wireless data network. I was told that the large carriers are planing continuing 2G/3G cellular for voice at least until 2020.
I don't think this has anything to do with Google Voice, though.
PX Eliezer1
Premium Member
join:2013-03-10
Zubrowka USA

PX Eliezer1 to w1ve

Premium Member

to w1ve
said by w1ve:

Republic Wireless is trying to make Wifi work, but they can never get the handoff working.

I am currently using them (RW) for my cellphone.

It is not only the technical challenges that are the problem, but also poor executive management.

Republic Wireless has a very DIY forum-based approach to customer support, and has been slow to address some ongoing problems.

A cute flower-power approach does not cut it any more.

-----

Republic Wireless is owned by Bandwidth.com who has Google Voice as a major customer.

Any big decrease in business for GV will undermine RW finances too.
w1ve
Premium Member
join:2007-12-28
Hancock, NH

w1ve

Premium Member

I used to be a RW customer. I'm in NH and they have no arrangement with CLECs, or have pissed off the PUC or something, because they don't offer numbers in NH. Strange for a company claiming to be "THE VoIP company". Like you said: cool idea, bad implementation and management.