dslreports logo
 
    All Forums Hot Topics Gallery
spc
Search similar:


uniqs
1211
shadowfaxes
join:2001-09-16
Lees Summit, MO

shadowfaxes

Member

[MO] Netflix quality - streaming like it's 1999

Maybe it's not the most important thing in the world, but I feel like it's time for another "my Netflix looks awful" post to be on the books.

I'm contracted for 25-30 Mbps service in my region, and while I do receive it for many things, including AMAZON PRIME video, my Netflix service can barely scrape up to SD quality. Same devices, both bluray and laptop browers, comparing these two services, and Netflix just seems blazingly... slow. And it's getting qualitatively worse over time. I'm no slouch either, I've got relatively new and well-maintained home networking equipment, I've done my speed tests, etc., and am happy with the capacity of the network. It's just Netflix that seems artificially slow.

It almost makes me wish I was a movie piratee. At least on some download networks I could probably get better usage out of the speed I pay for.

Anyway, while Mediacom shapes down Netflix in an effort to extort Netflix for money and a peering agreement, I'll be moving to a different state and metro area entirely. I just can't wait to break my contract with Mediacom.

You can bet that the sheer number of fed-up customers will be the end of your business as you know it. Maybe not today or in the next few years, but in the absence of innovation and improvement on your part, someone will step in to fulfill the gaping demand for real internet service.

Good luck, Mediacom. I hope you die a horrible death.

Anonymous88
Premium Member
join:2004-06-01
IA

Anonymous88

Premium Member

Umm you can't wait to pay ETF to break your contract? OK...

Nobody will step up because Mediacom serves rural areas mostly. And they know it.
shadowfaxes
join:2001-09-16
Lees Summit, MO

shadowfaxes

Member

I have just a few months left. My ETF is negligible, and getting out of contract will feel so good.

I'm in Columbia. It's a big college town. Someone will step up soon.
GLIMMER
join:2004-01-17
Fisher, IL

GLIMMER

Member

ya know it could be the area your in. I've had mediacom for 3 yrs and netflix had never been a problem.
macdude22
join:2005-09-08
IA

macdude22 to shadowfaxes

Member

to shadowfaxes
Netflix has been dropping to the 288 or 384 kbps stream frequently during peak times in Grinnell. Speed tests are still fine when this happens and other services (Prime Streaming) are fine.

I wouldn't be so quick to have Mediacom shoulder all the blame on this one, though as the last mile provider you and I pay they are the one that should shoulder some of it (and have to shoulder all of the complaints). With all this business going on with Netflix and Verizon (and the other Tier 1 ISPs) I'm pretty convinced the issues are with saturated peering points with the Tier 1 ISPs trying to wrangle free money out of Netflix, not Mediacom trying to wrangle free money out of netflix (Their method for discouraging Netflix usage is caps).

It's interesting how much worse the 288 kbps stream looks than the 384. Just that little extra amount of data makes a lot of difference to the eye scaled to 720p.

tl;dr Netflix performance during peak times is subpar.

OldCableGuy2
@ncs.com

OldCableGuy2

Anon

Netflix thinks they can get a free ride using their peering agreements that were not designed with the demands of streaming media in mind. Sooner or later netflix will set up and start paying for the bandwidth they use. Until then, I don't feel bad for anyone with Netflix trouble.

You get what you pay for, Netflix doesn't pay for peering, so they get d--k squat.
shadowfaxes
join:2001-09-16
Lees Summit, MO

shadowfaxes

Member

How much does it cost to upgrade these points?

OldCableGuy2
@communications.net

OldCableGuy2

Anon

Millions of dollars, these are the major connecting points where Netflix's ISP (Cognet) connects to Mediacom's ISP (AT&T)
macdude22
join:2005-09-08
IA

1 recommendation

macdude22 to OldCableGuy2

Member

to OldCableGuy2
said by OldCableGuy2 :

Netflix thinks they can get a free ride

A free ride, lol, yes Netflix doesn't pay anything. Thanks fella, I needed a good laugh.
shadowfaxes
join:2001-09-16
Lees Summit, MO

shadowfaxes to OldCableGuy2

Member

to OldCableGuy2
I don't get how cable companies could afford to set up the old points in the first place, proceed to reap marvelous profits from selling bandwidth to consumers that only gets cheaper for the company overtime (at least per megabyte), and then NOT be able to afford to spend the relatively cheap "millions of dollars" on upgrades, if that's really what we are talking about here.

If I had a cash-cow like a last-mile cable company monopoly, I'd be upgrading the shit out of it right now. You can and will be overrun by new technology if you make our situation suck so much.

Just seems like a racket. Everyone knows it. No one can do much about it unless they actually have billions of dollars and care about the future of the internet (read: google).

MediacomChad
Mediacom Social Media Relations Team
Premium Member
join:2010-01-20
Gulf Breeze, FL

MediacomChad to shadowfaxes

Premium Member

to shadowfaxes
Mediacom does not throttle or do any traffic shaping for any services including Netflix. This Netflix streaming issue happens on other providers besides Mediacom.

OldCableGuy2
@communications.net

OldCableGuy2 to shadowfaxes

Anon

to shadowfaxes
Why would you be upgrading the connection to your competitor?

You do get that Netflix competes with Mediacom, right? So you expect them (Mediacom) to pay Mediacom's ISP AT&T to upgrade their connection to Cognet so that their subscribers have a better experience using Netflix?

And, no; Netflix does not pay for the insane amount of bandwidth they use. At times up to 50% of the traffic on the internet is Netflix traffic, do you think they're paying 50% of the cost to run the internet? Laugh about that.
macdude22
join:2005-09-08
IA

macdude22

Member

said by OldCableGuy2 :

You do get that Netflix competes with Mediacom, right? So you expect them (Mediacom) to pay Mediacom's ISP AT&T to upgrade their connection to Cognet so that their subscribers have a better experience using Netflix?

Yes, yes I would if that is in fact the issue.

We pay Mediacom for access to the *entire* internet, not for "the entire internet, so long as it doesn't use a lot of bandwidth". Netflix (or any internet company) can't send more data down the pipes we rent than Mediacom allows. If Mediacom or ATT or Verizon or whoever can't provide that, well they shouldn't have sold it to me. If Netflix's ISPs can't provide what they claim, they shouldn't have sold that to them either.

We paid Mediacom for bandwidth, and Netflix paid their provider for their bandwidth. The bandwidth is paid for in both directions. Now there is a subset of ISPs who simply want to be paid twice for the same bandwidth use.

OldCableGuy2
@communications.net

OldCableGuy2

Anon

Mediacom is not restricting your access to the internet. Their ISP's connection to Netflix is oversaturated. It's not because of data coming from Mediacom (or AT&T) it's because of the Netflix side. Why should Mediacom be forced to upgrade that.

What you are saying is the same as if Target opened on the same street that has has a Wal-Mart for decades. When the Target opened, the traffic in front of Wal-Mart started to back up, so the city requires Wal-Mart to upgrade the entry way to Target to include an extra lane.

It makes 0 sense to think that this cost should fall on Mediacom.

Look, I get it, you kids want your web 3.0 toys, but sorry.
GLIMMER
join:2004-01-17
Fisher, IL

GLIMMER

Member

oh my god.

mediacom and netflix dont compete please. I have mediacom for just a dumb pipe do you think I would leave Dtv to come to mediacom? Hell NO there boxes suck there hd selection sucks there on demand is a joke. Atleast comcast is deploying new dvrs that are not Tivo.

I pay for 105/10 service with a cap of 2tb. I have had servers in data centers. Peering point are just that peering points. And mediacom is a 2nd tier ISP. They only in my area connect to ATT. The problem is not mediacoms its att when it comes to netflix. Now if mediacom had comcasts fiber rings I would blame them but they dont.
silbaco
Premium Member
join:2009-08-03
USA

silbaco to macdude22

Premium Member

to macdude22
said by macdude22:

said by OldCableGuy2 :

Netflix thinks they can get a free ride

A free ride, lol, yes Netflix doesn't pay anything. Thanks fella, I needed a good laugh.

Actually they have made it quite clear that they want a free ride and deserve settlement-free peering. Their competitors don't get settlement-free peering, but Netflix feels entitled to it.
silbaco

silbaco to GLIMMER

Premium Member

to GLIMMER
said by GLIMMER:

I pay for 105/10 service with a cap of 2tb. I have had servers in data centers. Peering point are just that peering points. And mediacom is a 2nd tier ISP. They only in my area connect to ATT. The problem is not mediacoms its att when it comes to netflix. Now if mediacom had comcasts fiber rings I would blame them but they dont.

I think you nailed it. It is pretty clear this is a problem that is occurring further upstream.
Spurge
Premium Member
join:2002-01-04
Columbia, MO

Spurge to shadowfaxes

Premium Member

to shadowfaxes
I have no problems streaming from Netflix in HD and i live in Columbia with Mediacom service.
shadowfaxes
join:2001-09-16
Lees Summit, MO

2 edits

shadowfaxes

Member


Amazon prime - full bars - crystal clear
 
Edit: sorry, haven't figured out how to sort the attachments in any meaningful order. Hopefully self-explanatory.

I'm jealous. I'm in an older part of town, close to the university. I can barely stream cartoons, let alone actual video that I want to watch.

Here are a few images that capture my frustration:

1. Pretty good speedtest results. Happy with that.

Netflix - 235 Kbps


2. Netflix - 235 Kbps - consistently, on everything

3. Amazon Prime Video - full bars - on devices that do report speed, it's sticking in the 8-12 mbps range

Yes, we're just talking about video here, not the end of the world if it doesn't come through, I get that. But we are also talking about paying Mediacom for a service, which it does not appear to be able to provide, and at the very least is using its position as the middleman to force content providers to pay up for bandwidth that we (as the consumer) have already paid for. Feels like a classic double-dip.

Whether it is ATT or Mediacom, Mediacom is my interface to the internet, they are contracted to provide a service I pay for (for now, cannot wait to move!) and they just don't really do a comprehensive job of it.
Expand your moderator at work

NormanS
I gave her time to steal my mind away
MVM
join:2001-02-14
San Jose, CA
TP-Link TD-8616
Asus RT-AC66U B1
Netgear FR114P

NormanS to OldCableGuy2

MVM

to OldCableGuy2

Re: [MO] Netflix quality - streaming like it's 1999

said by OldCableGuy2 :

... these are the major connecting points where Netflix's ISP (Cognet) connects ...

I don't go through Cogent to Netflix, even on a connection which isn't on Open Connect:
Tracing route to nflxvideo.net [69.53.236.21]
over a maximum of 30 hops:
 
  1    <1 ms    <1 ms    <1 ms  Chihiro [192.168.102.1]
  2    23 ms    23 ms    23 ms  173-228-7-1.dsl.static.sonic.net [173.228.7.1]
  3    24 ms    24 ms    23 ms  gig1-4.cr1.lsatca11.sonic.net [70.36.243.13]
  4    23 ms    24 ms    23 ms  0.xe-5-1-0.gw.pao1.sonic.net [69.12.211.1]
  5    23 ms    23 ms    33 ms  ae2.0.gw.equinix-sj.sonic.net [50.0.2.14]
  6    24 ms    24 ms    24 ms  216.156.84.101
  7    24 ms    24 ms    26 ms  216.156.84.6.ptr.us.xo.net [216.156.84.6]
  8    24 ms    25 ms    25 ms  xe-2-2-0-955.jnrt-edge02.prod1.netflix.com [69.53.225.30]
  9    24 ms    25 ms    25 ms  te1-8.csrt-agg02.prod1.netflix.com [69.53.225.10]
 10    25 ms    24 ms    25 ms  www.nflxext.com [69.53.236.21]
 
Trace complete.
 

The evidence I see is that Netflix does not have an ISP in the usual sense; rather, for situations where they don't have direct interconnects with Last Mile providers, they buy (as in, "Pay For") transit from a variety of 3rd party CDNs. Level 3, XO Communications (see above), etc.
GLIMMER
join:2004-01-17
Fisher, IL

GLIMMER

Member

looks like xo communications is doing there stuff

Tracing route to nflxvideo.net [69.53.236.21]
over a maximum of 30 hops:

1 1 ms 1 ms 1 ms 192.168.1.1
2 * * * Request timed out.
3 6 ms 7 ms 7 ms 172.30.91.129
4 7 ms 7 ms 8 ms 172.30.35.69
5 18 ms 16 ms 18 ms 12.250.218.29
6 26 ms 27 ms 27 ms cr2.sl9mo.ip.att.net [12.122.152.202]
7 29 ms 28 ms 26 ms cr2.cgcil.ip.att.net [12.122.2.21]
8 27 ms 27 ms 27 ms gar13.cgcil.ip.att.net [12.122.132.121]
9 24 ms 23 ms 23 ms 206.111.2.89.ptr.us.xo.net [206.111.2.89]
10 90 ms 71 ms 72 ms 207.88.14.193.ptr.us.xo.net [207.88.14.193]
11 70 ms 84 ms 82 ms te-4-1-0.rar3.denver-co.us.xo.net [207.88.12.22]

12 72 ms 71 ms 72 ms te-3-0-0.rar3.sanjose-ca.us.xo.net [207.88.12.58
]
13 68 ms 70 ms 68 ms 207.88.14.226.ptr.us.xo.net [207.88.14.226]
14 69 ms 70 ms 68 ms 216.156.84.6.ptr.us.xo.net [216.156.84.6]
15 70 ms 69 ms 69 ms xe-2-2-0-955.jnrt-edge02.prod1.netflix.com [69.5
3.225.30]
16 71 ms 70 ms 69 ms te1-8.csrt-agg02.prod1.netflix.com [69.53.225.10
]
17 70 ms 69 ms 69 ms www.nflxext.com [69.53.236.21]

B4Knight
Premium Member
join:2014-03-20
Colon, MI

B4Knight to shadowfaxes

Premium Member

to shadowfaxes
I'm a Charter customer and my trace route to (Netflix) nflxvideo.net goes through Cogent and XO communications. I have yet to experience poor Netflix performance as other people have reported with Mediacom, Charter, Comcast, etc. I guess I am just lucky

Tracing route to nflxvideo.net [69.53.236.21]
over a maximum of 30 hops:

1 1 ms 140 ms 1 ms 192.168.1.1
2 8 ms 6 ms 7 ms 10.178.192.1
3 9 ms 8 ms 7 ms dtr02cdwrmi-tge-0-0-1-3.cdwr.mi.charter.com [96.
34.34.212]
4 10 ms 10 ms 10 ms dtr03klmzmi-bue-2.klmz.mi.charter.com [96.34.38.
109]
5 11 ms 10 ms 10 ms dtr02klmzmi-bue-50.klmz.mi.charter.com [96.34.34
.10]
6 25 ms 19 ms 22 ms crr01aldlmi-bue-20.aldl.mi.charter.com [96.34.36
.62]
7 12 ms 15 ms 14 ms bbr01aldlmi-bue-1.aldl.mi.charter.com [96.34.2.8
]
8 21 ms 22 ms 23 ms bbr01sgnwmi-bue-5.sgnw.mi.charter.com [96.34.0.5
5]
9 22 ms 22 ms 24 ms be4041.nr21.b016069-0.dtw04.atlas.cogentco.com [
38.122.60.5]
10 22 ms 22 ms 26 ms te0-5-0-5.rcr21.dtw04.atlas.cogentco.com [154.24
.0.141]
11 22 ms 22 ms 22 ms te7-4.ccr01.tol01.atlas.cogentco.com [154.54.41.
230]
12 25 ms 24 ms 25 ms te0-2-0-1.ccr21.cle04.atlas.cogentco.com [154.54
.28.86]
13 28 ms 28 ms 29 ms te7-2.ccr01.buf02.atlas.cogentco.com [154.54.44.
81]
14 37 ms 38 ms 38 ms te0-0-0-9.ccr21.alb02.atlas.cogentco.com [154.54
.42.242]
15 38 ms 38 ms 37 ms be2108.mpd21.jfk02.atlas.cogentco.com [154.54.3.
133]
16 * 41 ms 39 ms be2062.ccr21.jfk05.atlas.cogentco.com [154.54.7.
14]
17 39 ms 42 ms 38 ms xo.jfk05.atlas.cogentco.com [154.54.11.190]
18 99 ms 94 ms 95 ms 207.88.14.185.ptr.us.xo.net [207.88.14.185]
19 99 ms 95 ms 94 ms te-11-0-0.rar3.sanjose-ca.us.xo.net [207.88.12.6
9]
20 * 93 ms 92 ms 207.88.14.226.ptr.us.xo.net [207.88.14.226]
21 92 ms 92 ms 92 ms 216.156.84.6.ptr.us.xo.net [216.156.84.6]
22 94 ms 94 ms 93 ms xe-2-2-0-955.jnrt-edge02.prod1.netflix.com [69.5
3.225.30]
23 138 ms 93 ms 92 ms te1-8.csrt-agg02.prod1.netflix.com [69.53.225.10
]
24 96 ms 92 ms 92 ms rd.netflix.com [69.53.236.21]

Trace complete.