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Ugly
Fishy Cool Bird

join:2001-12-12
The Meadow
reply to tubbynet

Re: screen shots and reviews

said by tubbynet:

fail to see why you call it this.

It is not intended as any compliment to the 2008 Republican nominee, just making some fun of his (mis or ab)use of "Maverick" as a self-descriptor. I never saw it. Craven RINO in my opinion. But this is off topic and hopefully answers the question in a polite yet honest way.

Last question for now and thank you for the kind advice!

Does the VM Fusionware serve to reformat and create new partitions that serve as 'homes' for your Operating Systems? How did you partition your hard drive?
--
Oh, I love the smell of fish. Guts, rotten, it's all good.


dennismurphy
Put me on hold? I'll put YOU on hold
Premium
join:2002-11-19
Parsippany, NJ
kudos:3
It creates 'virtual' hard disks - a (large) file on your Mac that emulates a hard disk.

No partitioning necessary; the entire virtual OS is stored in that file.


Ugly
Fishy Cool Bird

join:2001-12-12
The Meadow
said by dennismurphy:

No partitioning necessary; the entire virtual OS is stored in that file.

So where are the (not OsX) Operating System files on/in the storage area of hard drive kept? To 'install' an OS one has to run an 'installer' from a disc, yes? These files are installed into a partition, if I recall.
--
Oh, I love the smell of fish. Guts, rotten, it's all good.


dennismurphy
Put me on hold? I'll put YOU on hold
Premium
join:2002-11-19
Parsippany, NJ
kudos:3
Reviews:
·Verizon FiOS
said by Ugly:

said by dennismurphy:

No partitioning necessary; the entire virtual OS is stored in that file.

So where are the (not OsX) Operating System files on/in the storage area of hard drive kept? To 'install' an OS one has to run an 'installer' from a disc, yes? These files are installed into a partition, if I recall.

They install into that same virtual hard disk file.

VMware, Parallels, etc all create a virtual computer in a window. The other OS (say, Windowa) thinks it has a hard disk, but in reality, it's just a file on the Mac.

Very cool indeed. You'll love it.


Ugly
Fishy Cool Bird

join:2001-12-12
The Meadow
I have the perception that Parallels and VM Fusionware really do the same thing then.

Only difference may be that Parallels has slapped a pretty GUI on it and charges more. Have I got this right?
--
Oh, I love the smell of fish. Guts, rotten, it's all good.


dennismurphy
Put me on hold? I'll put YOU on hold
Premium
join:2002-11-19
Parsippany, NJ
kudos:3
Reviews:
·Verizon FiOS
said by Ugly:

I have the perception that Parallels and VM Fusionware really do the same thing then.

Only difference may be that Parallels has slapped a pretty GUI on it and charges more. Have I got this right?

Yes, very similar. I use VMware, but Parallels does a very similar thing.


onebadmofo
gat gnitsoP
Premium
join:2002-03-30
Reading, PA
kudos:1
reply to Ugly
said by Ugly:

said by onebadmofo:

The really cool thing is you can create a document, spreadsheet or presentation and export it as the comparable MS format.

Sure beats buying Office for Mac! Awesome! More money for BG is not in my plans.
said by onebadmofo:

it was only 20 bucks as opposed to 2 hundred to 3 hundred dollars MS asks for.

Yes, the regular costs are annoying. Agree.
said by onebadmofo:

updates in the Windows world a total friggin annoyance.

And agree on updates too. MS should ship when ready, not fix on the fly.
said by onebadmofo:

I added 16GB of RAM to my Macbook.

Wow! QUESTION: How much RAM do you have now total?
said by onebadmofo:

Installed Parallels incase I "need" to run windows.

Yes, I am thinking of a MacBookPro(retina) with 1Tb of space, to allow an alternative operating system via Parallels. Agree yet again!

The only risk in buying today versus waiting for next revision is whatever becomes the inevitable price increase (for waiting) or whatever cool new features one forgoes (by buying now). A dilemma.

I have 16gb of RAM. If they made individual 16 GB sticks I'd try putting 32GB in it. :-P.
Like tubby says, just pull the trigger on it. You'll have it for years and love it just as long.

And FYI, parallels has a feature called coherence mode. This is where you can run windows seamlessly with Mac. Meaning you don't see a windows desk top, just your Mac desktop. And any ms windows activity is shown in its respective Microsoft Windows, window inside the Mac environment. Sorry if that's confusing. I'll post screen shots if it is.
--
Insert thoughtful/witty/meaningful/poetic/funny/deep/rude/stupid/random/comment here.
Be unique...ya know, like everyone else.


tubbynet
reminds me of the danse russe
Premium,MVM
join:2008-01-16
Chandler, AZ
kudos:1
vmware fusion has a similar 'unity' mode.

q.


tubbynet
reminds me of the danse russe
Premium,MVM
join:2008-01-16
Chandler, AZ
kudos:1
reply to Ugly
vmware fusion has a decent gui as well.
i use fusion because it interoperates with other vmware products, namely vmware workstation on my linux host.

q.
--
"...if I in my north room dance naked, grotesquely before my mirror waving my shirt round my head and singing softly to myself..."


onebadmofo
gat gnitsoP
Premium
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Reading, PA
kudos:1
reply to tubbynet
said by tubbynet:

vmware fusion has a similar 'unity' mode.

q.

Oh cool.
Do you know if virtual box has anything like that?
--
Insert thoughtful/witty/meaningful/poetic/funny/deep/rude/stupid/random/comment here.
Be unique...ya know, like everyone else.


Octavean
Premium,MVM
join:2001-03-31
New York, NY
kudos:1
reply to Ugly
Ive always wanted to try this but have yet to make the attempt. So I'll ask if anyone here running a VM has tried it.

Has anyone here ever run a VM off of a RAMdrive,.....?

MichelR

join:2011-07-03
Ottawa, ON
reply to onebadmofo
There's a Parallels vs VMWare Fusion comparison here:

»www.parallels.com/landingpage/pd ··· odJi4A6g

(click on the second tab for features comparison)

It's from Parallels' web site, so surely there's some bias. Also it's a comparison against Fusion 5, not 6.

Looks like you can try both for free anyway...


onebadmofo
gat gnitsoP
Premium
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Reading, PA
kudos:1
said by MichelR:

There's a Parallels vs VMWare Fusion comparison here:

»www.parallels.com/landingpage/pd ··· odJi4A6g

(click on the second tab for features comparison)

It's from Parallels' web site, so surely there's some bias. Also it's a comparison against Fusion 5, not 6.

Looks like you can try both for free anyway...

Well I was just curious. I really haven't been using it enough to justify trying anything out. At first I used it for "Windows Only" software but then eventually found apps that could take their place or the mac versions of those same pieces of software.

Which now, this VM stuff made me think of a question. I'll just start new thread no need to hijack this one.
--
Insert thoughtful/witty/meaningful/poetic/funny/deep/rude/stupid/random/comment here.
Be unique...ya know, like everyone else.


onebadmofo
gat gnitsoP
Premium
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Reading, PA
kudos:1
reply to Octavean
said by Octavean:

Ive always wanted to try this but have yet to make the attempt. So I'll ask if anyone here running a VM has tried it.

Has anyone here ever run a VM off of a RAMdrive,.....?

Nope. Not me. Never even heard of it to be honest.
--
Insert thoughtful/witty/meaningful/poetic/funny/deep/rude/stupid/random/comment here.
Be unique...ya know, like everyone else.


tubbynet
reminds me of the danse russe
Premium,MVM
join:2008-01-16
Chandler, AZ
kudos:1
reply to onebadmofo
said by onebadmofo:

Oh cool.
Do you know if virtual box has anything like that?

yes.
vbox calls it 'seamless' mode

»www.howtogeek.com/171145/use-vir ··· machine/

q.
--
"...if I in my north room dance naked, grotesquely before my mirror waving my shirt round my head and singing softly to myself..."


tubbynet
reminds me of the danse russe
Premium,MVM
join:2008-01-16
Chandler, AZ
kudos:1
reply to Octavean
said by Octavean:

Has anyone here ever run a VM off of a RAMdrive,.....?

are you referring to a 'flash' drive -- like something you'd place in a usb port. when i think of ramdrive -- i think of a disk created using ram and assigned a drive letter/mount point (a la win98 boot disk).

q.
--
"...if I in my north room dance naked, grotesquely before my mirror waving my shirt round my head and singing softly to myself..."


Ugly
Fishy Cool Bird

join:2001-12-12
The Meadow

1 edit
reply to onebadmofo
said by onebadmofo:

o need to hijack this one.

It's fine. really it is.

I am still somewhat confused. Where exactly do the (say for this case) Windows OS files reside in/on a mac that runs Windows via VM or Parallels please? Thanks!
--
Oh, I love the smell of fish. Guts, rotten, it's all good.


tubbynet
reminds me of the danse russe
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Chandler, AZ
kudos:1
downloadcapture.tiff 239,220 bytesdownloadcapture2.tiff 402,298 bytes
said by Ugly:

am still somewhat confused. Where exactly do the (say for this case) Windows OS files reside in/on a mac that runs Windows via VM or Parallels please?

see the attached screenshots.
they are in a location of your choosing and naming. i have mine in ~/vmware.
the "single files" are created by fusion. the folder was an import from a previous vm created in vmware workstation.

q.
--
"...if I in my north room dance naked, grotesquely before my mirror waving my shirt round my head and singing softly to myself..."


Ugly
Fishy Cool Bird

join:2001-12-12
The Meadow

1 edit
said by tubbynet:

they are in a location of your choosing and naming.

I think that I am getting this. ~ One starts a VM machine and then the 'installation' process makes these folders, the "~/vmware" folder.

In sum, the VM runs as software within a mac environment. Then the alternative OS is installed as from/within the VM and places its files onto/within the folder on the mac-drive. The emulator intermediates or translates to/from the virtual space and the mac folders.

While these are mac folders, there are no directly usable files there. All the data in folders is usable by the OS in VM only. It is as if the data is encrypted somehow.

Yes? Or no?
--
Oh, I love the smell of fish. Guts, rotten, it's all good.


Octavean
Premium,MVM
join:2001-03-31
New York, NY
kudos:1
reply to tubbynet
said by tubbynet:

said by Octavean:

Has anyone here ever run a VM off of a RAMdrive,.....?

are you referring to a 'flash' drive -- like something you'd place in a usb port. when i think of ramdrive -- i think of a disk created using ram and assigned a drive letter/mount point (a la win98 boot disk).

q.

Indeed the latter,.....

Reallocated system RAM.

As I understand it, assuming you have enough RAM, you can create a RAMdrive using terminal commands in OS X but would need a program to do this in Windows.

Just curious as to how fast a VM would be running entirely in system RAM rather then off a HDD or SSD.


tubbynet
reminds me of the danse russe
Premium,MVM
join:2008-01-16
Chandler, AZ
kudos:1
reply to Ugly
said by Ugly:

In sum, the VM runs as software within a mac environment. Then the alternative OS is installed as from/within the VM and places its files onto/within the folder on the mac-drive. The emulator intermediates or translates to/from the virtual space and the mac folders.

exactly.

said by Ugly:

While these are mac folders, there are no directly usable files there. All the data in folders is usable by the OS in VM only. It is as if the data is encrypted somehow.

not quite. i can mount the virtual harddrive with software and view the contents. its not encrypted -- but its no different than a .docx or .pptx -- i just need the appropriate software to view the contents.

q.
--
"...if I in my north room dance naked, grotesquely before my mirror waving my shirt round my head and singing softly to myself..."


tubbynet
reminds me of the danse russe
Premium,MVM
join:2008-01-16
Chandler, AZ
kudos:1
reply to Octavean
said by Octavean:

Just curious as to how fast a VM would be running entirely in system RAM rather then off a HDD or SSD.

i only have 16gig in my mbpr. i'm not sure that i'd try this -- especially as i'd like persistence in my vm. i'm not sure how that would work across sleeps.

i will say that i don't notice any lag -- but i'm on the pci-e based nand flash built in to the mbpr. its wicked fast -- especially with enough ram dedicated to the vm.

q.
--
"...if I in my north room dance naked, grotesquely before my mirror waving my shirt round my head and singing softly to myself..."


Ugly
Fishy Cool Bird

join:2001-12-12
The Meadow
said by tubbynet:

i only have 16gig in my mbpr.

That's the maximum offered and users cannot (or are not supposed to) add more, Right?

said by tubbynet:

i'm on the pci-e based nand flash built in to the mbpr. its wicked fast -- especially with enough ram dedicated to the vm.

I confess that I have no idea at all what you have written. Sorry for being a n00b.

Finally, one gets the idea that if one wishes to run a VM, that 16Gb of RAM is strongly recommended. Yes?
--
Oh, I love the smell of fish. Guts, rotten, it's all good.


tubbynet
reminds me of the danse russe
Premium,MVM
join:2008-01-16
Chandler, AZ
kudos:1
said by Ugly:

That's the maximum offered and users cannot (or are not supposed to) add more, Right?

yes -- but i was implying that there are devices that can support more than 16gig that this may be possible in.

said by Ugly:

Finally, one gets the idea that if one wishes to run a VM, that 16Gb of RAM is strongly recommended. Yes?

not necessary. my mid-2011 13" mba only has 4gig of ram and i can run a windows 7 vm on it. its definitely recommended to have more than that -- but it will work in a pinch.

q.
--
"...if I in my north room dance naked, grotesquely before my mirror waving my shirt round my head and singing softly to myself..."


Ugly
Fishy Cool Bird

join:2001-12-12
The Meadow

1 edit
Click for full size
The prices make no sense!
13-inch MBPro-R w/ 3 Years of AppleCare

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Apple - MacMall - B&H Photo - Adorama - Discount
2.8GHz 13" MBP (8GB, 512GB) $2,248.00 $2,140.48* $2,178.99+ $2,123.00! $125.00
3.0GHz 13" MBP (8GB, 512GB) $2,448.00 $1,700.98* sold out - - - -- - - - $647.02

This pricing makes no sense to me at all.
The MacMall price is so good as to be a bit suspicious even. EDIT: Nevermind. These are the previous version of early 2013, withOUT the new energy efficient Haswell CPUs. Sorry, my bad.
»appleinsider.com/mac_price_guide ··· pplecare

If an 8Gb RAM MBPr can run a VM, then $1,700 does appear quite reasonable.
What am I missing please? Thanks!
--
Oh, I love the smell of fish. Guts, rotten, it's all good.


onebadmofo
gat gnitsoP
Premium
join:2002-03-30
Reading, PA
kudos:1
reply to Ugly
The only thing you might be "missing" is that, that MBP might have an SSD rather than HDD. Now if that's what you're looking for, then you're not missing anything.
But if you wanted an HDD with more space than you may want to keep looking around.

I found this, still SSD but 512GB:
»www.neweggbusiness.com/product/p ··· -100-327

With HDD:
»www.bestbuy.com/site/macbook-174 ··· p=1&lp=2

15"
»www.bestbuy.com/site/macbook-174 ··· 1&lp=16#

A refurb in case you're interested. Not sure what OS version is on it though:
»www.bestbuy.com/site/refurbished ··· ications

This is very important if you plan to upgrade RAM on your new purchase... »www.everymac.com/systems/apple/m ··· ots.html :

How do you upgrade the RAM in the Retina Display MacBook Pro models? What type of RAM do they use? How much RAM do they actually support? Is it even possible to upgrade the RAM?

By default, the Retina Display MacBook Pro models all have 1600 MHz DDR3L SDRAM soldered onboard. None of these models have RAM that can be upgraded at all after the time of initial purchase.

The now discontinued 13-Inch "Late 2012" and "Early 2013" MacBook Pro models could not be upgraded beyond the stock 8 GB of RAM, period, either at the time of purchase or otherwise.

All current "Late 2013" MacBook Pro models -- regardless of display size -- can be upgraded to 16 GB of RAM at the time of purchase. EveryMac.com would strongly recommend upgrading to 16 GB of RAM at the time of purchase, if at all possible, to prolong the usable life of the notebook.

If having the ability to upgrade the RAM yourself after purchase is important to you, you might instead prefer to buy a traditional 13-Inch or 15-Inch "Mid-2012" MacBook Pro model -- which actually are capable of supporting 16 GB of RAM regardless of display size -- or alternately, you might even feel compelled to purchase a notebook from a company other than Apple.


Here's are some screen shots of mine...







One of many plus's about Mac is there is no need to defrag. And you really aren't as prone to viruses and malware as a Windows PC. I still use a Virus protection program. It's a free program called SOPHOS. Works well and I haven't had an issues with it. It detects infected emails that come in if any do come in. AVAST! makes one too.

And just like Windows, there are also cleaning apps that help clean the junk files (temp files) off of it.
CCleaner makes a flavor for Mac.
AppCleaner is a easy and quick way of uninstalling apps and they're left over files.

Oh, forgot about Norton and BitDefender make scanners that clean out viruses. they don't protect, just clean.



--
Insert thoughtful/witty/meaningful/poetic/funny/deep/rude/stupid/random/comment here.
Be unique...ya know, like everyone else.


Octavean
Premium,MVM
join:2001-03-31
New York, NY
kudos:1
reply to Ugly
I think you will likely need more RAM than 8GB if you're going to run a VM. The host OS, in this case OS X, will run reasonably well with 8GB of RAM but the guest OS would need some of that system RAM allocated to it as well in order to run.

So if you allocate 4GB of RAM, for example, to the guest OS then the host OS is now only running with 4GB. The latest versions of OS X such as Mavericks 10.9.2 probably won't run well with just 4GB and your guest OS might not run very well with 4GB either (depending on the OS).


onebadmofo
gat gnitsoP
Premium
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Reading, PA
kudos:1
said by Octavean:

I think you will likely need more RAM than 8GB if you're going to run a VM. The host OS, in this case OS X, will run reasonably well with 8GB of RAM but the guest OS would need some of that system RAM allocated to it as well in order to run.

So if you allocate 4GB of RAM, for example, to the guest OS then the host OS is now only running with 4GB. The latest versions of OS X such as Mavericks 10.9.2 probably won't run well with just 4GB and your guest OS might not run very well with 4GB either (depending on the OS).

Well I have 16GB on mine. I gave 2 of that to windows. (I'm greedy that way) And honestly, Windows runs fine if not better on my Mac than it does on a standalone HP laptop with only the 2GB allocated to it.

Granted, I'm not using it everyday, nor as hard as you would on a standalone laptop. But it works for what I want it for, when I want it to. downside is...there are updates for it every damned time I turn it on.
--
Insert thoughtful/witty/meaningful/poetic/funny/deep/rude/stupid/random/comment here.
Be unique...ya know, like everyone else.


tubbynet
reminds me of the danse russe
Premium,MVM
join:2008-01-16
Chandler, AZ
kudos:1
reply to Octavean
mavericks runs fine with 4gb of ram -- my mba is chugging along just fine.
8gig will get you a single (comfortable) vm. the key about them vm is that you dont have a ton of shit clogging it up so it will run nice in 2gb of ram. that still gives you 6gb for the main o/s. obviously if you're doing cad, etc -- you may need more than 2gb -- but my work vm is a tank and i only give it 4 gb.

however, since you cant upgrade ram -- you should be buying all of your apple kit with max ram at time of purchase for maximum lifecycle.

q.
--
"...if I in my north room dance naked, grotesquely before my mirror waving my shirt round my head and singing softly to myself..."


Ugly
Fishy Cool Bird

join:2001-12-12
The Meadow
said by tubbynet:

since you cant upgrade ram -- you should be buying all of your apple kit with max ram at time of purchase for maximum lifecycle.

Yes, exactly. ~ One has to ask a very important question here.

In the long history of many past new and refreshed product releases, has anyone ever compiled the market price histories on a website? ~ One might want to use past post-refresh price activity in thinking about what to do, and when to do it.

Today we have the AppleInsider PriceGuide, here »appleinsider.com/mac_price_guide
But this is only a daily snapshot.

The $200 price-drop in late-2013 on the MBPr was quite unexpected.
Yet one might nonetheless try to plan in advance and be on the lookout for bargains.

• QUESTION: So does such a Mac Price History website exist anywhere please?
--
Oh, I love the smell of fish. Guts, rotten, it's all good.