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nu2this
NOT
Premium
join:2005-04-07
Hallandale, FL
Reviews:
·Comcast
reply to dennismurphy

Re: screen shots and reviews

Yup... Which is why i switched to debian... I was an apple fan boy for years! But with all the spying and 'free' upgrade to maverick... Hmmm... Wiped my mbp and put a debian distro on it. I must say, some great features in linux, but being 'born outside the matrix' and using OS X since i started using a computer, there are things i miss in OS X.
--
Why are you so surprised to see sinners in church? Are you shocked to see sick people in a hospital too?
»www.USMarketingDirect.com/1000-f···only-32/


Ugly
Fishy Cool Bird

join:2001-12-12
The Meadow

1 edit
said by nu2this:

But with all the spying and 'free' upgrade to maverick... Hmmm...

I think others in this forum have noticed sneaky or spy-like suspicious behavior by mac OS-McCain/Palin. There is a thread, "Noticeboard, now what?" or something like that. Similar topic. Caught with Little Snitch.

How can one manage this nonsense to where one can allow or deny, however one see fit?

If a 'feature' requires phoning home to a mother-ship, perhaps one might prefer to live without?

The decision should be for the owner of puter and OS, not the manufacturer.

Such chutzpah!
--
Oh, I love the smell of fish. Guts, rotten, it's all good.


nu2this
NOT
Premium
join:2005-04-07
Hallandale, FL
Reviews:
·Comcast
heres the deal...
this meeting happens... about surveillance with ob@m@ and Tim Cook
»www.politico.com/story/2013/08/t···362.html and maverick is free.... :/

and maverick is detecting when people are infront of it?
in addition to all other things going on... ??? i switched...

»www.theverge.com/2013/11/1/50545···ys-on-no

99 problems but my os isn't one of them!
debian / vpn / whonix / TAILS /

question:Would Jobs of helped with the surveillance meeting?
--
Why are you so surprised to see sinners in church? Are you shocked to see sick people in a hospital too?
»www.USMarketingDirect.com/1000-f···only-32/


Ugly
Fishy Cool Bird

join:2001-12-12
The Meadow
There no dispute with the premise that a security problem exists in mac OS-Maverisks.

This is a rare point of populist agreement between liberals and conservatives. So yet again, "Yes, I agree completely with all that you have posted so far."

Now that is settled, Is there any means to fix this, pretty please and thank you?

Politics is good for an occasional laugh, but the real issue here (IMHO) is, Can one fix a broken technology? Thanks!
--
Oh, I love the smell of fish. Guts, rotten, it's all good.


nu2this
NOT
Premium
join:2005-04-07
Hallandale, FL
no. no fix. lol... use something else... i chose debian and vpn for me needs.
downgrade if you can to 10.6


Ugly
Fishy Cool Bird

join:2001-12-12
The Meadow
said by nu2this:

no. no fix. lol... use something else...

OK. I get your point already, that it cannot be fixed completely.

• I'll ask again. Can it be partially fixed, please and thank you?

I do not wish to debate a choice of OS. ~ That's not topic here. Thanks!
--
Oh, I love the smell of fish. Guts, rotten, it's all good.


onebadmofo
gat gnitsoP
Premium
join:2002-03-30
Reading, PA
kudos:1
reply to Ugly
It's quite simple. No computer is immune from some type of infection or hacking.

If someone lives in fear of being "spied on" from their computer, and reads blogs about it and trusts it like gospel or believes their every move is being documented, well then that person is going to have a real tough time doing anything normal in life.

Don't trust your laptop webcam? Put a piece of tape over it like some of the paranoid people at my job do. They think we (my IT dept) have the ability or INTEREST in trying to watch them through it. I don't know how to do that, nor do I give a shit how it's done.

The best answer to your questions is this:
Get a Macbook or not, it doesn't matter. You'll always have something that could have the ability to "phone home".
Do you have the ability to turn it off? Sure. Does it really, I mean REALLY turn off? Who the hell knows. And honestly, who the hell cares? It's not gonna interfere with how I take a dump or what food I eat.
If you let shit like this affect you, you end up not getting shit done because you're so worried about being "seen" while doing it.

Think of it this way, of all the important people in the world, and with how large the actual world, the EARTH is, why would someone want to waste their time watching YOU?

If you let this type of nonsense affect your decision on a laptop purchase...well then you may as well not purchase one at all.
--
Insert thoughtful/witty/meaningful/poetic/funny/deep/rude/stupid/random/comment here.
Be unique...ya know, like everyone else.


tubbynet
reminds me of the danse russe
Premium,MVM
join:2008-01-16
Chandler, AZ
kudos:1

1 recommendation

said by onebadmofo:

If you let this type of nonsense affect your decision on a technology purchase...well then you may as well not purchase it at all.

fify.

q.
--
"...if I in my north room dance naked, grotesquely before my mirror waving my shirt round my head and singing softly to myself..."


onebadmofo
gat gnitsoP
Premium
join:2002-03-30
Reading, PA
kudos:1
said by tubbynet:

said by onebadmofo:

If you let this type of nonsense affect your decision on a technology purchase...well then you may as well not purchase it at all.

fify.

q.

yeah anyway.
--
Insert thoughtful/witty/meaningful/poetic/funny/deep/rude/stupid/random/comment here.
Be unique...ya know, like everyone else.


Ugly
Fishy Cool Bird

join:2001-12-12
The Meadow
reply to Ugly
The responses have run a gamut, from build a fringe custom rig from scratch, precisely because a technology/computer was phoning-home, all the way to ignore the problem, as the only true security is no connection at all.

Folks, I've asked several times and very nicely.

In the context of a mac laptop (this is the Apple forum), ...

QUESTION: Can the Maverisks ...

[spelling intentional, for all very good reasons, as mentioned by
said by nu2this:

heres the deal...

,
said by onebadmofo:

No computer is immune

, and
said by tubbynet:

decision on a technology purchase --- fify

end bracket] -- Thanks guys!

... be secured by some software, likely a serious firewall, or not please?
If 'yes,' please include names. TIA.

If, and, or whenever this waterfowl gets to thinking of a non-mac puter, then I'll post in another forum, out of respect for organization by subject matter.

• Right now, just looking to neuter the OS, like castrating a hog, see here:

»www.youtube.com/watch?v=p9Y24MFOfFU

--
Oh, I love the smell of fish. Guts, rotten, it's all good.


Thinkdiff
Premium,MVM
join:2001-08-07
Bronx, NY
kudos:11

1 edit

5 recommendations

Contrary to the craziness in this forum/thread, Apple is not secretly siphoning off all or even some of your data. There is no inherent "security problem" with Mavericks - no more so than any other OS X or OS in general.

However, if you're paranoid, install Little Snitch and baby sit your computer by approving every connection it attempts to make - that's the only way to "neuter" it, as you say.

The reason you're not getting "useful" responses is because the paranoid move on to other things (as evidence by an earlier poster) and the less paranoid don't have time to or don't care to do anything about it. The default settings on a Mac will keep most nefarious individuals out and occasionally check in with Apple for actually useful stuff (software updates, XProtect updates, security updates, etc).
--
University of Southern California - Fight On!


onebadmofo
gat gnitsoP
Premium
join:2002-03-30
Reading, PA
kudos:1
said by Thinkdiff:

Contrary to the craziness in this forum/thread, Apple is not secretly siphoning off all or even some of your data. There is no inherent "security problem" with Mavericks - no more so than any other OS X or OS in general.

However, if you're paranoid, install Little Snitch and baby sit your computer by approving every connection it attempts to make - that's the only way to "neuter" it, as you say.

The reason you're not getting "useful" responses is because the paranoid move on to other things (as evidence by an earlier poster) and the less paranoid don't have time to or don't care to do anything about it. The default settings on a Mac will keep most nefarious individuals out and occasionally check in with Apple for actually useful stuff (software updates, XProtect updates, security updates, etc).

..........What he said.
--
Insert thoughtful/witty/meaningful/poetic/funny/deep/rude/stupid/random/comment here.
Be unique...ya know, like everyone else.


Ctrl Alt Del
Premium
join:2002-02-18
kudos:1
reply to Thinkdiff
said by Thinkdiff:

However, if you're paranoid, install Little Snitch and baby sit your computer by approving every connection it attempts to make

While I agree that the paranoia is mostly stupid, technically, I wouldn't trust Little Snitch if it was running on an untrusted system. An OS X rootkit could fool even Little Snitch. For those who go to 11 on the tin foil hats should consider a trusted router that lets you install trusted firmware to inspect the packets going in and out.

Or, you know, worry about real, actual threats to your privacy and security.
--
less talk, more music


Octavean
Premium,MVM
join:2001-03-31
New York, NY
kudos:1
reply to nu2this
said by nu2this:

Yup... Which is why i switched to debian... I was an apple fan boy for years! But with all the spying and 'free' upgrade to maverick... Hmmm... Wiped my mbp and put a debian distro on it. I must say, some great features in linux, but being 'born outside the matrix' and using OS X since i started using a computer, there are things i miss in OS X.

Couldn't you have just run Linux in bootcamp or something rather then having to wipe your Mac,.....?

I don't know, I'm not the paranoid type so I never really thought about it much.


Ugly
Fishy Cool Bird

join:2001-12-12
The Meadow
said by Octavean:

Couldn't you have just run Linux in bootcamp or something rather then having to wipe your Mac,.....?

Yeah, that sounded (wiping a perfectly good mbp) sounded like an overreaction.

I might experiment with some alternative Operating Systems via VM, Parallels, bootcamp, etc., yes agree. Looking forward to this...

said by Ctrl Alt Del:

trusted router that lets you install trusted firmware to inspect the packets going in and out.

Hey Ctrl Alt Del, can you share more on this please? Have you done this?
If 'yes,' please explain. A good time to brag to this n00b. Thanks!
--
Oh, I love the smell of fish. Guts, rotten, it's all good.


Thinkdiff
Premium,MVM
join:2001-08-07
Bronx, NY
kudos:11
reply to Octavean
If you truly believe Apple is spying on you, then nothing would prevent them from stealing your Linux data while booted into OS X, too (not actually gonna happen, but that's what they would believe).

Also, if you never plan on using OS X, why bother keeping it around?
--
University of Southern California - Fight On!


Ugly
Fishy Cool Bird

join:2001-12-12
The Meadow
First, nu2this See Profile said he has no OS-X.
Now Octavean See Profile brings up bootcamp. And so, if one boots any OS via bootcamp, then all other (if any exist) OSs on the same machine are inactive. Thus, only one OS is running and it is NOT OS-X.

Now this starts messing with my head.

said by Thinkdiff:

If you truly believe Apple is spying on you, then nothing would prevent them from stealing your Linux data while booted into OS X,

Wow, this is so confusing! How can this happen?

Are we considering a case wherein one has TWO OSs running simultaneously, as via Parallels or VMWare's Fusion Virtual Machine? If that is the case, then how can data cross the separation between OS-X and the VM?

How can that happen? The only way I can see it is hinted by the ", too," suggesting a VM arrangement. Is that it?

The Linux is running as a VM WITHIN the OS-X under an instance of Parallels or VM Fusion. Have I got this?

Finally, if this is correct, then yes and agree, OS-X remains a concern indeed. You are correct. Thanks Thinkdiff See Profile!
--
Oh, I love the smell of fish. Guts, rotten, it's all good.


Thinkdiff
Premium,MVM
join:2001-08-07
Bronx, NY
kudos:11

1 edit

2 recommendations

This is total, absolute bullshit, but this is what some people will come up to justify their paranoia. It's in the realm of possibility like a person spontaneously combusting is in the realm of possibility. Well, I guess spontaneous combustion is probably more likely than any of this happening:

For Bootcamp, Apple could include a secret kernel extension within OS X that can read ext2/3/4 formatted drives (ext4 is the format most Linux partitions use) while booted into OS X and then search your linux drives for useful information, sending any interesting bits directly to Obama's laptop. Linux does not need to be booted for this to happen as any OS has access to all of your disk (as long as it understands how to read it).

You may think encrypting the Linux partition is enough, but no, no. They have an answer for that, too. Apple also controls the computer, so they of course install special firmware that searches your RAM for the decryption keys while booted into Linux (you cannot change the firmware on your Mac, easily at least). Then OS X can read those keys from firmware and use it to decrypt the drive. Therefore, the only reasonable thing left to do is completely erase OS X.

As for a Virtual Machine, that's even easier to steal data from. Of course VMWare and Parallels are also under the government's wide ranging control, so the software that allows you to virtualize the other OS also has a mechanism to pass all data that goes through the virtual machine back to the mothership. Or if you don't believe that, everything is still running on top of OS X, so Apple can always intercept the data between the virtual machine software (Fusion/Parallels) and the CPU.

My point is none of this is happening. If you believe any of the garbage in this thread about Apple spying on you, then you should not be using a Mac (or a computer) at all, because there's always a work-around.
--
University of Southern California - Fight On!


Ctrl Alt Del
Premium
join:2002-02-18
kudos:1
reply to Ugly
The closest I've done this was install the Tomato firmware on an old Linksys wireless router. There are other custom firmwares to choose from too.
--
less talk, more music


Ugly
Fishy Cool Bird

join:2001-12-12
The Meadow

1 edit
said by Ctrl Alt Del:

The closest I've done this was install the Tomato firmware on an old Linksys wireless router. There are other custom firmwares to choose from too.

Yes, a router is just essential. Agree.

I recall that Linksys routers have the "stateful packet inspection" feature already built in.

Yet I cannot recall if the default is ON, or if one must 'opt-in,' so to speak.

• How is Tomato better please?
Better than the Linksys "stateful packet inspection" feature even?
--
Oh, I love the smell of fish. Guts, rotten, it's all good.


onebadmofo
gat gnitsoP
Premium
join:2002-03-30
Reading, PA
kudos:1
reply to Ugly
Everyone have their tinfoil hats ready?


I hope so cause...

I've seen this pop up plenty of times while fixing computers at work.



And yes, I click don't send. Not because of "OMG they can totally steal my information and spy on me if I click send!!!" Nope, it's because I don't want to wait around for the shitty computer to do something else when all I want to do is fix the damned thing.

Now for you true paranoia nuts out there, you know who you are....what makes you think that when you click "don't send" in that window, that it doesn't just send every bit of your information out there anyway? What makes you think Microsoft didn't install a small totally untraceable key logger that can't be found by viruses, or any other hi-tech sorcery, hmmm??? I mean we are in the 21st century, are we not? We have crazy amounts of technology...it is possible, right?
And what makes you think that Linux and any other free distros that are out there wouldn't do that?? Oh well you might say, "Why would linux do that, they have no profit to gain from it, their OS's are free." Well, they have to make money from somewhere. Who's to say they don't get it from the big names like Apple or MS?? Hell, maybe even the United States Government could be paying some type of denomination to Linux for sending user info to their databases. Remember, 21st century, untraceable technology. What ever you think doesn't exist, most likely exists.

Oh and about viruses, who's to say that the anti-virus companies themselves, such as Norton, Mcafee, ESET, etc. aren't the ones behind MAKING the viruses to begin with? Or maybe they're contracting people on the DL to make viruses. All just so they can stay in business. I mean, if there are no viruses out there scaring people about stolen information and infected computers, how would these companies stay in business? They wouldn't! There's no profit in the cure, only profit in the sickness.

Bottom line is, we don't TRULY know what goes on deep, DEEP, DEEP within the truly inaccessible areas of our computers. And the only fail safe way of not being spied on is to never EVER use a computer for the rest of your life. Aaaand then that is not 100% as well since you can be spied on from a distance while field agents watch your every move from their surveillance vehicles, drones, and people on the street. ...that guy, sitting in the car next to you at the traffic light. The coffee server, whom you go to every morning, who smiling asks, "The usual?". Your doctor, who knows your every health secret maybe some things he HASN'T told you.
Yep.
...watch your back. Cause ya never know. Hell, maybe even I'm someone who is watching you. Watching everything you type, everything you do in your house through your webcam. But you don't know it cause the light never turns on. Oh you can unplug it, put tape over the cam on your laptop. Go ahead. I still have audio an visual from the micro cams and mics I planted in your smoke detectors, ceiling fans, lighting fixtures, and highly sensitive microphones behind your walls. If you're doing something you shouldn't be doing, we'll find out. So keep your nose clean, stay on the straight and narrow, and you won't have any unusual people knocking on your door asking you puzzling questions.

So chew on that for a bit, while I and many other millions SANE people use our computers without a guilty conscience.
Heh...my Macbook Pro with only SOPHOS on it. ..not giving to shits about who sees what.

If you seriously have to question if this is happening, then you really shouldn't get ANY computing or electronic device and just go live in the woods some where. It's just utter stupidity. I'm not saying this type of shit CAN'T happen. Like I said, it's the - 21st century -, we don't truly know what type of technology exists behind closed doors that is top secret. I'm just saying, if it is out there, "so fuckin what". Live with it. You've gotten this far in life with it possibly being out there, right? Live with the thought that shit like this MAY exist. But don't twist your life up over it to where it drives you nuts with simple decisions like in what computer to buy. It just isn't worth it. If you choose to live you life in that manner where you have to walk on egg shells all the time, you're just stressing yourself out and you'll always be treading water rather than swimming ahead.
--
Insert thoughtful/witty/meaningful/poetic/funny/deep/rude/stupid/random/comment here.
Be unique...ya know, like everyone else.


Ugly
Fishy Cool Bird

join:2001-12-12
The Meadow
Well, the topic (remember?) is securing a mac. Yes. It is assumed that you may indeed be right. ~ Nothing is ever completely secure.

So trying to make it less broken, as much as possible, to allow reasonable use.
no one can function in a practical sense without some use of a computer these days.

Thanks for keeping this on-topic and friendly.
I appreciate it
--
Oh, I love the smell of fish. Guts, rotten, it's all good.


Ugly
Fishy Cool Bird

join:2001-12-12
The Meadow
reply to Ugly
Has anyone experience with a firewall called "Hands Off!"?

My soon to be replaced MS rig has a firewall and a router.

So still interested in Tomato as well. Thanks Ctrl Alt Del See Profile
Expand your moderator at work


Thinkdiff
Premium,MVM
join:2001-08-07
Bronx, NY
kudos:11
reply to Ugly

Re: screen shots and reviews

said by Ugly:

Has anyone experience with a firewall called "Hands Off!"?

What's wrong with the built-in firewall?

Little Snitch seems more popular than Hands Off. Never heard of it.

said by Ugly:

So still interested in Tomato as well.

Tomato is no more secure than any other router firmware. That's not to say it's not useful (I use it on a few of my routers), but don't expect it to afford you any more protection than the default firmware on the router.
--
University of Southern California - Fight On!


Ugly
Fishy Cool Bird

join:2001-12-12
The Meadow
said by Thinkdiff:

What's wrong with the built-in firewall?

One does not trust it. I do not wish to debate the security of mac.
--
Oh, I love the smell of fish. Guts, rotten, it's all good.


Thinkdiff
Premium,MVM
join:2001-08-07
Bronx, NY
kudos:11
But you trust a no-name indie developer based in France (Hands Off) or an open-source router firmware that can be modified by anyone (Tomato)?

Just trying to understand the reasoning...
--
University of Southern California - Fight On!


Ugly
Fishy Cool Bird

join:2001-12-12
The Meadow
reply to Thinkdiff
said by Thinkdiff:

I use it on a few of my routers

If this is not any trouble, what made you decide the original firmwares were no longer useful or desirable please? ~ Thanks!
--
Oh, I love the smell of fish. Guts, rotten, it's all good.


Thinkdiff
Premium,MVM
join:2001-08-07
Bronx, NY
kudos:11
I need to do more on my routers than the original firmware allows - I have VPN tunnels that connect different locations so I can communicate with the servers and computers on each remote network as if they were local (saves a lot of time). I also prefer to do configuration on the command line, which usually isn't possible with cheap consumer routers running the default firmware.

The factory default firmware on most routers is good enough for probably around 95% of people. Installing custom firmware is not something I'd recommend to people that are uncomfortable with the command line, although it has gotten more user friend in the past few years.
--
University of Southern California - Fight On!


Ugly
Fishy Cool Bird

join:2001-12-12
The Meadow
reply to Thinkdiff
said by Thinkdiff:

open-source router firmware that can be modified by anyone (Tomato)?

Yes, I am asking politely why do you use it?
--
Oh, I love the smell of fish. Guts, rotten, it's all good.