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battleop
join:2005-09-28
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battleop to stevek1949

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Re: [Security] Keyless locks

When I owned some office buildings this was pretty standard. Unless it was otherwise stated in the lease everything became part of the building. There were exceptions for trade fixtures but that was taken care of as an addendum.

That being said being on both sides of the Lease using these exact same locks I never had trouble or gave trouble if this type of lock was removed as long as you could not tell there had ever been any alterations.

Most landlords are not going to care about something like this as long as you return the property as it was before you changed the locks.
battleop

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LOL Don't worry they will smash a few buttons and then kick the door in. An Elderly neighbor's son installed a lock to that very reason. 911 was called they didn't get it to unlock on the first try so they got excited and smashed the door down.
tedmarshall
join:2000-12-02

tedmarshall to IowaCowboy

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I've had this Schlage deadbolt set on my front door for about 4 years: »www.handlesets.com/schla ··· /p490557. I'm quite happy with it. The 9V battery last a long time and it give you a warning that the battery is getting low with plenty of time to replace it. You can have multiple codes. The inside has a conventional lever.

The only down side is that after a while, the buttons that are used frequently discolor, making the digits of your main combination easy to see. Og course, you can change your code any time.

battleop
join:2005-09-28
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battleop to IowaCowboy

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I have the first one on my house, my mom's and my mother-in-law's house. I've not had any trouble with any of them. I would suggest that you put it on the back door so that if you come home with someone who does not need to know the code and you need it you can always have them wait at the front door while you go around back and then let them in.

I don't think I would trust one of the internet ones since there is probably some future exploit we're waiting to hear about if it does not already exist.
aa6vh
join:2005-07-25
Oxnard, CA

aa6vh

Member

said by battleop:

I don't think I would trust one of the internet ones since there is probably some future exploit we're waiting to hear about if it does not already exist.

The internet lock is exposed to the Internet only if you set it up that way. I do not. There is no physical way to wirelessly communicate with that lock if you do not set it up beforehand.

One problem with the Kwikset locks is that they only have five combination buttons, as opposed to 10 on the Schlage (and others). Five buttons mean that there are far fewer unique combinations. In other words 1-2-2-1 and 1-1-1-1 and 2-2-2-2 (etc) are the same combination.

The Schlage 469 is ANSI rated level one, as opposed to the others which are ANSI level 2. Means the lock is tuffer. The 469 also has options for a jimmy alarm (loud buzzer), and for temporarily locking out all combinations if several invalid combinations are entered at once. It also has an optional autolock.

Another combo lock to check is made by Yale.

I had the Schlage 365 installed for many years, with no problems. I upgraded to the Schlage 469 six months ago, and I am quite happy with it.

jeffmoss26
join:2002-07-22
Beachwood, OH

1 recommendation

jeffmoss26 to IowaCowboy

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to IowaCowboy
He is wrong, but whatever...you made your choice.
Schlage with a real pin tumbler cylinder is better than Kwikset Smartkey with a garbage wafer assembly that has been proven to fail in use.
scott_urman
join:2002-07-18
San Mateo, CA

scott_urman to IowaCowboy

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Rather than replacing the actual locks, you can install a lock box with a spare key inside. The lock box has the combo. We've done this in every house that we own, it's great also for letting the house cleaners or other tradespeople in without actually giving them a key.

mackey
Premium Member
join:2007-08-20

mackey to IowaCowboy

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said by IowaCowboy:

And my car relies on keys to open and you can open the trunk with a button mounted right next to the steering column which means all a crook has to do to open the trunk is smash out the driver door window.

Um, if a thief is watching your place to the point he knows about the key, he's gonna be breaking in key or not.

/M

battleop
join:2005-09-28
00000

battleop to aa6vh

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I guess the tougher lock will only matter if the door is tougher. In my case the back door is a glass door so the best possible lock won't help.

I do have a camera DVR system at home and there are two cameras that over lap at the door plus a few more that cover areas that you would have to cross to get to the back door. If someone made it that far I would get an email with the video plus there is an alarm that would go off.

cowboyro
Premium Member
join:2000-10-11
CT

cowboyro to IowaCowboy

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to IowaCowboy
Get a lock that doesn't self-close.
Problem solved.

IowaCowboy
Lost in the Supermarket
Premium Member
join:2010-10-16
Springfield, MA

IowaCowboy

Premium Member

I'm taking the Kwikset back as the cylinders failed during the rekeying process.

This is what I ended up installing.




The back door locks (which the landlord has keys to) are going to remain intact. I have Schlage locks on the attached garage and I had this keyed to the garage key. Maybe when the landlord stops by (which is very rare, once in a blue moon) I'll give her the Schlage key and change the rest of the locks to Schlage and explain the security flaw in the Kwikset SmartKey system, maybe show her the YouTube videos explaining the flaw on my iPad.

I had to use a Schlage key on the garage as I had to replace the flimsy lock on the overhead door that could be opened with a screwdriver. The replacement required a rim cylinder.
Critsmcgee
join:2011-12-02

Critsmcgee to IowaCowboy

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That screams "rob me". The door, frame, and exterior look like crap but there's a $130 dollar keypad on the place.

hitachi369
Embrace Your Rights
Premium Member
join:2001-10-03
Cincinnati, OH

hitachi369

Premium Member

Plus if the handle still has a key slot, what is stopping the bottom lock from getting locked? I understand you would try and not lock it, but the habit will be hard to break and the one time you really need the key code the handle will be locked.

IowaCowboy
Lost in the Supermarket
Premium Member
join:2010-10-16
Springfield, MA

IowaCowboy to Critsmcgee

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to Critsmcgee
said by Critsmcgee:

That screams "rob me". The door, frame, and exterior look like crap but there's a $130 dollar keypad on the place.

And about 4-5 feet away are window stickers that say "warning: premises electronically protected" with the name, address, and phone number of the alarm company.

I've been cracking down on security now that the units on both sides have been targeted by break-ins. The other side of our duplex was burglarized a few years ago (which is why I added deadbolts and eventually a monitored alarm system) and the unit in the duplex next to us got its windows smashed out.

Once this thing starts to weather (brass tends to corrode), it'll be less noticeable.
Critsmcgee
join:2011-12-02

Critsmcgee

Member

said by IowaCowboy:

Once this thing starts to weather (brass tends to corrode), it'll be less noticeable.

We installed new brass door hardware about 5 years ago. It still looks as good as the day we bought it.

IowaCowboy
Lost in the Supermarket
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join:2010-10-16
Springfield, MA

IowaCowboy to hitachi369

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to hitachi369
said by hitachi369:

Plus if the handle still has a key slot, what is stopping the bottom lock from getting locked? I understand you would try and not lock it, but the habit will be hard to break and the one time you really need the key code the handle will be locked.

I was in Home Depot looking to buy a non-locking passage lock to install on the bottom but them you don't want to compromise security. I've already started locking the top only. On the other hand I could just double lock it if I'm going away for a long time such as vacation (which is rare).

But you don't want to get locked out as you'll be paying a locksmith. The landlord threw our poor neighbor under the bus, she ended up paying a locksmith.

And I would NEVER leave a key in my wallet as my wallet contains a card called my driver's license, and my driver's license has my home address on it. If my wallet goes bye-bye (pickpockets, misplaced, stolen), then the thief has my home address and the keys. You might as well leave a keychain with your home address with your house keys behind on the bus.

I don't think the Registry of Motor Vehicles will print my PO Box on my driver's license.
IowaCowboy

IowaCowboy to Critsmcgee

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to Critsmcgee
said by Critsmcgee:

said by IowaCowboy:

Once this thing starts to weather (brass tends to corrode), it'll be less noticeable.

We installed new brass door hardware about 5 years ago. It still looks as good as the day we bought it.

Do you have a screen door and how far from the coast are you.

You can tell by the new and old locks. The old lock looked like the top lock when it was installed.
Critsmcgee
join:2011-12-02

Critsmcgee

Member

said by IowaCowboy:

said by Critsmcgee:

said by IowaCowboy:

Once this thing starts to weather (brass tends to corrode), it'll be less noticeable.

We installed new brass door hardware about 5 years ago. It still looks as good as the day we bought it.

Do you have a screen door and how far from the coast are you.

You can tell by the new and old locks. The old lock looked like the top lock when it was installed.

2 of the doors have storm doors and the other 2 are raw to the outside. I'm maybe 15 miles from the coast.

garys_2k
Premium Member
join:2004-05-07
Farmington, MI

garys_2k to Mr Matt

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to Mr Matt
Yep, and I don't need wireless controls, just something I can open with one hand already hanging onto something.

dib22
join:2002-01-27
Kansas City, MO

dib22 to jeffmoss26

Member

to jeffmoss26
said by jeffmoss26:

better than Kwikset Smartkey with a garbage wafer assembly that has been proven to fail in use.

It boggles my mind that they still sell smartkeys knowing how easy they are to defeat.

Everyone will jump in "BUT A DRILL WILL DEFEAT THEM ALL"... yes but a drill vs a screwdriver and a scrap of metal... Which is more noticeable?
askinder
join:2010-07-08
Kansas City, MO

askinder to scott_urman

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to scott_urman
said by scott_urman:

Rather than replacing the actual locks, you can install a lock box with a spare key inside. The lock box has the combo. We've done this in every house that we own, it's great also for letting the house cleaners or other tradespeople in without actually giving them a key.

+1

This is the perfect solution, especially for a renter. You can get a lockbox for a key for $30. Growing up my mother was a realtor and we kept a realtor box on the lock and it was perfect for lock out situations.
TheMG
Premium Member
join:2007-09-04
Canada
MikroTik RB450G
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TheMG

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said by askinder:

This is the perfect solution, especially for a renter. You can get a lockbox for a key for

A lot of those lock boxes can be rather easily bypassed and opened. Easier than picking the deadbolt lock.

Here's a video showing it done on one popular model of lock box:

»www.youtube.com/watch?v= ··· hokSAqSo

IowaCowboy
Lost in the Supermarket
Premium Member
join:2010-10-16
Springfield, MA

IowaCowboy to askinder

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to askinder
said by askinder:

said by scott_urman:

Rather than replacing the actual locks, you can install a lock box with a spare key inside. The lock box has the combo. We've done this in every house that we own, it's great also for letting the house cleaners or other tradespeople in without actually giving them a key.

+1

This is the perfect solution, especially for a renter. You can get a lockbox for a key for
Those can easily be breached. I've heard of Craigslist scams where the phony landlord took the photos off the realtors website, took the security deposit, and even gave them the keys to the house they didn't own or had the authority to rent out. The culprit: the realtor box had been stolen and was breached. They can be cut off with bolt cutters and opened pretty easily in a secluded area with a pry bar or a sledgehammer.

We've decided if the need arises to ever move (don't see that in the near future) but I'd hire a real estate broker to find a place. You pretty much have to screen landlords as much as they screen tenants. Bad landlords run the gamut from not maintaining properties to being scam artists to taking security deposits on craigslist and not even owning the property they promising to be renting out (that is actually for sale and they stole the pictures from a real estate listing). But there are good landlords out there and I'll give them credit too.

I guess where I'm at its a catch 22 where you can only get so much rent due to market conditions but your costs are this much and you deal with tenants that trash the joint on top of that. But I fix things because I have to live in this house and I don't want my rent to go up, we're dealing with deferred maintenance. The carpets are horrible, they've unraveled between the staircase and the living room. The kitchen floor is got small holes in the vinyl.

hitachi369
Embrace Your Rights
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join:2001-10-03
Cincinnati, OH
(Software) pfSense
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hitachi369 to IowaCowboy

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Anyone who is going to defeat your top lock wont be stopped from the bottom regardless of what it is. The paranoia is thick in this thread, if someone wants to get in your house they will.

I had a keyed deadbolt and knob, both locked, my front door got kicked in. I live in suburbia, not a care given, cops weren't called until I called them.

Locks are only going to keep out the honest and thieves of opportunity. 1 deadbolt will drive the lazy away to your neighbor, 2 is no added benefit.
aa6vh
join:2005-07-25
Oxnard, CA

aa6vh to Critsmcgee

Member

to Critsmcgee
said by Critsmcgee:

said by IowaCowboy:

Once this thing starts to weather (brass tends to corrode), it'll be less noticeable.

We installed new brass door hardware about 5 years ago. It still looks as good as the day we bought it.

+1. After five years, still looked new. And I live 4 miles from the beach, with no screen door.

I only replaced mine with the BE465 because I wanted the Ansi Level 1 protection (why not?). I will be using the BE365 elsewhere.

IowaCowboy
Lost in the Supermarket
Premium Member
join:2010-10-16
Springfield, MA

IowaCowboy

Premium Member

I could not see spending the $70 difference for the more expensive Schlage. Plus they don't have the brass in stock at the home centers.

jeffmoss26
join:2002-07-22
Beachwood, OH

jeffmoss26 to IowaCowboy

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The cylinder on your kwikset knob is upside down, teeth of the key should always face up.

IowaCowboy
Lost in the Supermarket
Premium Member
join:2010-10-16
Springfield, MA

IowaCowboy

Premium Member

Here is the finished product, I replaced the bottom lock with a non-locking knob.




The locks on the back door are still intact, maybe I can give the landlord a code to get in so she doesn't have to remember keys. Maybe in the rare instance she comes over we can program a code that's easy for her to remember.

Maybe she could install one on the other unit and go keyless, I wonder if that would be legal for landlords to use keyless entry on their rentals so when they change tenants they can wipe the codes and program new codes for the new tenants. The beauty of these locks is they have an administrator code that the LL could retain and the landlord could program their entry code and then the appropriate tenant entry codes. I might suggest going keyless to the LL if it's legal to not give tenants keys but codes instead. We already have several busted locks on the other unit.

mityfowl
Premium Member
join:2000-11-06
Dallas, TX

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Probably should either clean the door bell button or buy a new one too.

Over the years someone has been a sloppy painter.
Dodge
Premium Member
join:2002-11-27

Dodge to IowaCowboy

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Reading this thread I just don't understand what do you think you are accomplishing? How hard do you think it is to kick a door in? I don't know where you live exactly, but from your posts (this one including), it almost seems that there are criminals sitting in every bush around your area just waiting for people to go to work so they can break in. If that's the case, locks or no locks, they are breaking in.

My home inspector told me a fun story about one of the houses he inspected in my area. The owner had a custom built, all steel door put in for his front door. Now this door had all of the bells and whistles of a good "bank" door. Metal frame, steel bolts going into the house frame, like a 6 inch 4 bar deadbolt, some super key, etc... Which is great, except in the back of the house was a very pretty glass slider!